I have not been afraid of black bears

[Shutterbug]

I may have to rethink my position on black bears. I have always treated grizzly bears with an appropriate degree of respect/fear, but I have not had a fear of black bears. Whenever I encounter one, I have been more concerned with getting a picture than with getting away. I may have to rethink my position. There have been two deaths this week in Alaska due to bear maulings. Both were black bears!!!

https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2017...n-black-bears/

None of the news stories I have been able to find have said anything about cubs. Everyone knows to keep a safe distance from any bear with cubs. It is possible that both of the Alaska instances involved mother bears with cubs, but the news stories don't say anything about the cubs.

[tdoczi]

everyone "knows" that, but in the case of black bears, everyone is wrong. black bear deaths, which aside from this week are in fact very rare (and something i will still not worry about) are almost universally perpetrated by a male bear who views humans as prey and stalks and kills one to eat it. NOT by mother's defending cubs. those are grizzlies, black bears do not do that.

i have lost track of how many times i have posted this link here in the 6 years since the article's publication in the hopes of helping to dispel this misconception.

here it is, again-

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html

[MuddyWaters]

everyone "knows" that, but in the case of black bears, everyone is wrong. black bear deaths, which aside from this week are in fact very rare (and something i will still not worry about) are almost universally perpetrated by a male bear who views humans as prey and stalks and kills one to eat it. NOT by mother's defending cubs. those are grizzlies, black bears do not do that.

l

Yup

Mom runs cubs up a tree, and then may run a distance away herself.

But it dont hurt to think mom with cubs is dangerous. Theres always an outlier. Just like with people, no absolutes.

Odds mean nothing when your that one-in-10,000

[tdoczi]

Yup

Mom runs cubs up a tree, and then may run a distance away herself.

But it dont hurt to think mom with cubs is dangerous. Theres always an outlier. Just like with people, no absolutes.

Odds mean nothing when your that one-in-10,000

i think it does hurt to think that mom with cubs is more dangerous than a lone male, as far as black bears are concerned. the article i linked to provides ample evidence of why this would be so.

[MuddyWaters]

i think it does hurt to think that mom with cubs is more dangerous than a lone male, as far as black bears are concerned. the article i linked to provides ample evidence of why this would be so.

All males are loners. Unless young siblings that hang together.

Are you saying we should be worried about 50%of bears?

Because thats b.s.

The lone male that stalks someone is a 1:100 or less bear. Possibly much less. Risk on par with just a crazy outlier, regardless of sex, in my book.

[tdoczi]

All males are loners. Unless young siblings that hang together.

Are you saying we should be worried about 50%of bears?

Because thats b.s.

The lone male that stalks someone is a 1:100 or less bear. Possibly much less. Risk on par with just a crazy outlier, regardless of sex, in my book.

i'm saying to walk into the woods thinking that the dangerous black bears are the mom's who have cubs is to walk into the woods uninformed and ignorant and in so doing you are giving up your one advantage you have over bears or any other animal that might mean you harm- your brain.

[tdoczi]

All males are loners. Unless young siblings that hang together.

Are you saying we should be worried about 50%of bears?

Because thats b.s.

The lone male that stalks someone is a 1:100 or less bear. Possibly much less. Risk on par with just a crazy outlier, regardless of sex, in my book.

or put differently- your level of alertness and caution should be more raised by the sighting of a loan male bear who does not appear afraid of you who is just watching you from afar, much more than it should be by the sight of a mom with cubs.

the sum of your posts thus far would seem to indicate you disagree with this (its funny how in one post you say dont disregard outliers and in the next you say disregard outliers). i'll go with the article by the world renowned bear expert.

[Shutterbug]

everyone "knows" that, but in the case of black bears, everyone is wrong. black bear deaths, which aside from this week are in fact very rare (and something i will still not worry about) are almost universally perpetrated by a male bear who views humans as prey and stalks and kills one to eat it. NOT by mother's defending cubs. those are grizzlies, black bears do not do that.

i have lost track of how many times i have posted this link here in the 6 years since the article's publication in the hopes of helping to dispel this misconception.

here it is, again-

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/11/science/11bears.html

While a mother bear with cubs might not be more dangerous, in my experience, they are much easier to disturb. When I see any bear, I try to get some good pictures with a telephoto lens, but I also try to avoid disturbing them. It has been my personal observation in Mt. Rainier National Park, where I see the most bears, a mother bear with cubs becomes disturbed much more quickly than a lone bear.

[tdoczi]

While a mother bear with cubs might not be more dangerous, in my experience, they are much easier to disturb. When I see any bear, I try to get some good pictures with a telephoto lens, but I also try to avoid disturbing them. It has been my personal observation in Mt. Rainier National Park, where I see the most bears, a mother bear with cubs becomes disturbed much more quickly than a lone bear.

and if you read the article i linked to the bear that you have to worry about is the one that is NOT disturbed.

[Berserker]

black bear deaths, which aside from this week are in fact very rare (and something i will still not worry about) are almost universally perpetrated by a male bear who views humans as prey and stalks and kills one to eat it. NOT by mother's defending cubs. those are grizzlies, black bears do not do that.

I'm super late in on this one (there's already 6 pages of comments) and someone may have already mentioned this, but predatory bear attacks (i.e. where a bear stalks and attacks a human for food) are very rare. Stephen Herrero wrote a great book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" where he studies many bear attacks. Very few of them are predatory, and he discusses the rarity of this in his book. From my recollection (haven't read the book in a long time) most of the attacks were food related...go figure.

[Uncle Joe]

I'm super late in on this one (there's already 6 pages of comments) and someone may have already mentioned this, but predatory bear attacks (i.e. where a bear stalks and attacks a human for food) are very rare. Stephen Herrero wrote a great book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" where he studies many bear attacks. Very few of them are predatory, and he discusses the rarity of this in his book. From my recollection (haven't read the book in a long time) most of the attacks were food related...go figure.

But, as he notes in this video, those that are fatal are usually predatory: https://youtu.be/n7yoIheOrTc

[tdoczi]

I'm super late in on this one (there's already 6 pages of comments) and someone may have already mentioned this, but predatory bear attacks (i.e. where a bear stalks and attacks a human for food) are very rare. Stephen Herrero wrote a great book called "Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance" where he studies many bear attacks. Very few of them are predatory, and he discusses the rarity of this in his book. From my recollection (haven't read the book in a long time) most of the attacks were food related...go figure.

actually that same person wrote the article i linked in the first reply in which he states that BLACK bear attacks are almost ALWAYS predatory.

[tdoczi]

i would also add one report i read mentioned one of the victims reporting "being chased." not to victim blame, but you do NOT run from a black bear, or any bear for that matter.

a grizzly you play dead, a black bear you stand your ground and fight.

[TNhiker]

i would also add one report i read mentioned one of the victims reporting "being chased." not to victim blame, but you do NOT run from a black bear, or any bear for that matter.

yeah........

its kinda ironic though as the victim was also running as he was in a race.......

[tdoczi]

yeah........

its kinda ironic though as the victim was also running as he was in a race.......

that might have been what set the whole thing in motion. who knows. i dont think it would be unreasonable to question the wisdom of having a footrace through bear country.

[TNhiker]

that might have been what set the whole thing in motion. who knows. i dont think it would be unreasonable to question the wisdom of having a footrace through bear country.

my thoughts exactly on both of what you wrote......

[somers515]

my thoughts exactly on both of what you wrote......

In other articles I've read on this bear attack, apparently during a race is the very safest time to do trail running as there are large number of runners making lots of noise and the bears usually avoid a trail with a ton of runners. The teenager is thought to have taken a wrong turn and then either texted his mom or called his brother (depending on what article you read) that a bear was chasing him (implying that he was still running).

I say this in the nicest way possible, but for two of you to question the wisdom of running through bear country is kind of like a trail runner questioning the wisdom of someone going out and eating and sleeping in bear country, as most everyone on this forum does all the time.

Still I agree that he might not have known once he was being chased by the bear that he needed to stop running and turn and fight if necessary. Very sad.

[tdoczi]

In other articles I've read on this bear attack, apparently during a race is the very safest time to do trail running as there are large number of runners making lots of noise and the bears usually avoid a trail with a ton of runners. The teenager is thought to have taken a wrong turn and then either texted his mom or called his brother (depending on what article you read) that a bear was chasing him (implying that he was still running).

I say this in the nicest way possible, but for two of you to question the wisdom of running through bear country is kind of like a trail runner questioning the wisdom of someone going out and eating and sleeping in bear country, as most everyone on this forum does all the time.

Still I agree that he might not have known once he was being chased by the bear that he needed to stop running and turn and fight if necessary. Very sad.

it is true, a large group of people running together probably would scare most bears off, but do all runners really stay close together, wrong turns aside even?

[Sarcasm the elf]

Before becoming too concerned, keep in mind that we are discussing something so rare that the mere fact that it happened twice made national headlines. To put that in perspective, if I went to my doctor worried about a medical condition I saw in the news that killed two people nationally, she would likely kick me out of her office for wasting her time.

[SWODaddy]

People fundamentally misunderstand black bears. Most black bear attacks are predatory and committed by young or very old males - often early or very late in season. Females have been known to run away ditching their cubs at the sight of humans.