Training and First Aid Kits.

[BuckeyeBill]

I know that the contents of a first aid kit has been kicked around a lot on here. The majority say some band-aides, some neosporin, some moleskin or second skin and duct tape is all you need. Other will toss in a few Tylenol or Ibuprofen and a couple of Imodium, all with keeping things light.

Now lets say someone else or yourself have had formal training, (i.e. EMT/Paramedic and/or Certified Wilderness First Aide) would you consider carrying just a few more items because you have training to do more both for yourself or for others? I am not suggesting anything like a full suture kit, but a couple clotting bandages, maybe an ACE bandage. Not to make light of someone seriously hurting themselves, but you can't look at them and say "Damn dude, duct tape ain't gonna fix that." I am sure there are or have been doctors, nurses, EMTs, Paramedics, or people trained in outdoor first aide that hike. I am not suggesting these people should be required to carry extra items. I am just thinking about coming up on someone who has taken a header on the rocks of Pennsylvania or somewhere else. Some band-aides and duct tape won't help much with a gash to head, as head wounds tend to bleed a lot, even if it is small. Situations like this can't be ignored, unless you are totally heartless.

Yes? No? Maybe?

[egilbe]

Duct tape fixes everything.

[Dogwood]

Good question Buckeye bill. Being certified in Wilderness First Aid(16 hr, 2 day class) and as a First Responder ABSOLUTELY YES I do sometimes carry more than the most UL most basic FKT. A BIG FAT NO to duct tape fixing everything!!!

[Don H]

I'm a retired Fire Department Paramedic who still holds an EMT license. During my thru my FAK weighed about 3 ounces. Bandaids, Neosporin, a safety pin, Tylenol, aspirin (for heart attack), Imodium AD, 3' of Leukotape was about all I carried.

I actually had two situations that I came upon that were, or could have been true health emergencies. First was an asthma attack where the person needed help with their inhaler. the second was a diabetic with low blood sugar, fixed that with a Snickers Bar.

Broken bones can be temporarily splinted with sticks and a torn up T shirt. Direct pressure using a bandana or shirt can be used for controlling bleeding. Suturing wounds is not realistic. Anything that serious needs debridement first which you can't effectively do in the field.

Carrying an Ace bandage might be a good idea, it's good for sprains and controlling bleeding.

The most important thing to carry is knowledge of basic first aid. Take a Wilderness FirstAid or First Responder course.

[ScareBear]

I'm a retired Fire Department Paramedic who still holds an EMT license. During my thru my FAK weighed about 3 ounces. Bandaids, Neosporin, a safety pin, Tylenol, aspirin (for heart attack), Imodium AD, 3' of Leukotape was about all I carried.

I actually had two situations that I came upon that were, or could have been true health emergencies. First was an asthma attack where the person needed help with their inhaler. the second was a diabetic with low blood sugar, fixed that with a Snickers Bar.

Broken bones can be temporarily splinted with sticks and a torn up T shirt. Direct pressure using a bandana or shirt can be used for controlling bleeding. Suturing wounds is not realistic. Anything that serious needs debridement first which you can't effectively do in the field.

Carrying an Ace bandage might be a good idea, it's good for sprains and controlling bleeding.

The most important thing to carry is knowledge of basic first aid. Take a Wilderness FirstAid or First Responder course.

I understand this post is in the AT section and that some of the following applies to more remote/rugged/dangerous settings.

Suturing being realistic is often dependent on the injury and the ETA to a facility than can have a physician suture you. Going on a 3 week Grand Canyon permit expedition? You'll likely find a couple of skin staplers, along with suture kits, scalpels, SAM splints and other emergency field gear. I've usually got a suture kit, with me on all my AT hikes. Weighs nothing. Same with super glue and steri-strips. I'm not going to activate my SPOT when I am 24 hours or more from a viable road crossing when I or my partner have an injury that can be dealt with immediately and then more professionally, if needed. Same with safety-pins. It sucks to have to use them on a wound, but sometimes, there isn't any good alternative, even if you are staying put until help arrives. Which, depending on where your are, can be quite a good while...

I think the hemostats weigh the most in my little kit...

All of the above requires sufficient prior training and isn't field-craft to be learned on the fly. But, with sufficient prior training can be put to use when necessary or desired. I would not dismiss sutures, staplers, super-glue or the like as overkill or not needed.

YMMV

[OCDave]

It is all about what you carry in your head, very little about what you carry in your pack.

[egilbe]

Good question Buckeye bill. Being certified in Wilderness First Aid(16 hr, 2 day class) and as a First Responder ABSOLUTELY YES I do sometimes carry more than the most UL most basic FKT. A BIG FAT NO to duct tape fixing everything!!!

Name something that requires first aid that you cant use duct tape. sucking chest wound? check. Splint a fracture? Check. tape over a guaze bandage? Check. Tourniquet? Check. Dorect pressure over a bleeding wound? Check.

[TexasBob]

Good question Buckeye bill. Being certified in Wilderness First Aid(16 hr, 2 day class) and as a First Responder ABSOLUTELY YES I do sometimes carry more than the most UL most basic FKT..............

I'm a retired Fire Department Paramedic who still holds an EMT license. During my thru my FAK weighed about 3 ounces. Bandaids, Neosporin, a safety pin, Tylenol, aspirin (for heart attack), Imodium AD, 3' of Leukotape was about all I carried.............

Question I have is do you guys carry exam gloves to limit expose to blood in case you need to help someone who is bleeding? I did for awhile but then I quit. I am curious as to your thoughts on this.

[TTT]

A common injury seems to be rocks swinging back from bear hangs and making contact with faces. Haven't heard of any other medical dilemmas apart from hypothermia and blisters.

[BuckeyeBill]

Question I have is do you guys carry exam gloves to limit expose to blood in case you need to help someone who is bleeding? I did for awhile but then I quit. I am curious as to your thoughts on this.

I usually have a pair or two stuffed in a Ziploc.

[Dogwood]

Egilbe, what I carry depends on where and whom I'm going... or if I'm going with others. Let me clarify. Duct tape in itself absolutely does not "fix" everything. I do carry a set of gloves solo backpacking.

[Dogwood]

And, definitely include gloves when with others.

[BuckeyeBill]

Name something that requires first aid that you cant use duct tape. sucking chest wound? check. Splint a fracture? Check. tape over a guaze bandage? Check. Tourniquet? Check. Dorect pressure over a bleeding wound? Check.

You have obviously never scene a skull that has been smashed on a rocks where there is a visible depression. You are not going to fix it with duct tape. I have also seen sliced arteries where someone was playing with their "Rambo" knife and s**t happened. Arteries need very hard direct pressure and/or pressure at a point where the artery is near a bone to stem the blood flow that you are not going to get from any type of tape. I have training as a paramedic and have taken the Wilderness First aid Course, Money well spent IMHO.

I have spoken to ER doctors about small suture kits and it was about a 50-50 split on carrying one. The doctors that said it is a good idea, because only you can judge the serious nature of the injury at the time. Even the ones that said no, did agree that there are areas that it might not be a bad idea if you are in areas that is far from rescue personnel. At this point in time I don't carry a suture kit, but I do have one in my reserve gear at home.

I can honestly say that I am not going to use just duct tape to fix a sucking chest wound. It requires a totally non-porous covering and while DT is strong, it is still somewhat porous. Now I may use it to tape the edges down. I have gotten into the habit of carrying climbers tape for blisters and other FA needs. It stays on you even in wet, sweaty and humid conditions. It is also thinner than duct tape.

[Riocielo]

Question I have is do you guys carry exam gloves to limit expose to blood in case you need to help someone who is bleeding? I did for awhile but then I quit. I am curious as to your thoughts on this.

Nitrile gloves are light as a feather and are good under your regular gloves to keep your hands warm, too. Having said that, I only carry a pair if I suspect cold days.


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[BuckeyeBill]

One other thing I wanted to mention. The use of tourniquets is a topic that most medical people try to shy away from. Unless you are fully trained in its use and know how and when to release pressure, you will probably do more damage than you will good. You can easily crush an artery destroy muscle tissue.

[MuddyWaters]

The core of wilderness first aid
Is stem bleeding, make victim comfortable, get help

We had a dr in our group that hiked in boy scouts. He brought and carried a 3 lb medical kit on hikes.

At first.

After a while he said "im not bringing the medical kit, so yall be careful and dont nobody get hurt"

[OCDave]

You have obviously never scene a skull that has been smashed on a rocks where there is a visible depression. You are not going to fix it with duct tape.....

Curious; what you are carrying in your pack that will "fix" this skull?

[cmoulder]

After a while he said "im not bringing the medical kit, so yall be careful and dont nobody get hurt"

^^^^^^^^This, lol!

Steri strips, Band-aids (a few small ones and a couple of big square ones), athletic tape, moleskin, neosporin, aspirin, ibuprophen, immodium,Tums

For me that covers about 99.44%

The other 0.56% I'll make up as I go along or punch that SOS button on the Spot and get my story straight while waiting.

I actually used the steri strips one time while mountain biking. Got a really ugly 3" gash in my knee, luckily no cut ligaments or whatever. Flushed it out with water and used a few steri strips to piece it all together until I could get properly stitched. Was able to ride about 10-12 miles back to the car and drive to the emergency room and they were still holding fine.

[One Half]

I'm a retired Fire Department Paramedic who still holds an EMT license. During my thru my FAK weighed about 3 ounces. Bandaids, Neosporin, a safety pin, Tylenol, aspirin (for heart attack), Imodium AD, 3' of Leukotape was about all I carried.

I actually had two situations that I came upon that were, or could have been true health emergencies. First was an asthma attack where the person needed help with their inhaler. the second was a diabetic with low blood sugar, fixed that with a Snickers Bar.

Broken bones can be temporarily splinted with sticks and a torn up T shirt. Direct pressure using a bandana or shirt can be used for controlling bleeding. Suturing wounds is not realistic. Anything that serious needs debridement first which you can't effectively do in the field.

Carrying an Ace bandage might be a good idea, it's good for sprains and controlling bleeding.

The most important thing to carry is knowledge of basic first aid. Take a Wilderness FirstAid or First Responder course.

This.

If you've had the training you know what you will and won't be able to do in the woods and how to improvise the things you can help with. Anything more serious than a bandaid, moleskin or ibuprofen means you need to get the person off the trail and then your best bet is to have a cell phone to call help.

[One Half]

One other thing I wanted to mention. The use of tourniquets is a topic that most medical people try to shy away from. Unless you are fully trained in its use and know how and when to release pressure, you will probably do more damage than you will good. You can easily crush an artery destroy muscle tissue.

Update your training. Tourniquets do not get "released" until the person is in a hospital these days.