Shelters Only for Thru-Hikers?

[dmax]

i was at wise last year, and stayed the night, along with 3 or 4 other hikers who were definitely not thrus. if there was a sign, i didnt notice it.

being (i believe) on state park lands i would lean towards thinking, if there was a sign, it was indicating, much as in other places, that it is for people who are "hiking through"

It might have said AT hikers only. It was about 2-3 years ago.

[capehiker]

Actually thru hikers are unquestionably given preferential treatment, as they should be. Local, state and federal law encodes this favoritism, depending on the location, but most notably they can camp where others can not. Also it is in society in general, the trail magic is for the thru hikers, others may glom some, but if there were no thru hikers there would be no such trail magic, it's because and for the thru hikers. So the argument that trail magic should be for any hiker and not exclusive for thrus just doesn't hold any weight, as without thrus there is no trail magic in it's common form along the AT. And they deserve it, They are doing something wonderful, something few people dare to do, but so needed in society - to leave it for a long time to pursue their dreams.

Weekenders are more of the vacationing problem, thru hikers are experiencing live, not escaping it.

As for the shelters, the thrus will get the nod and people who violate this will be looked down upon if they take it with a self righteous attitude. It's unofficial, but karmically correct, a show of respect.

There's some folks on here mocking this post and laughing at it but I'm actually in agreement with Starchild. I'm not saying I endorse Thru hiker favoritism, but I am saying it exists and it's real. People often talk about the hikers themselves being entitled but it is more comprehensive and more broad than some 20-something kid feeling entitled.

It starts with AWOLS guide listing Thru hiker specials. Then there's trail magic. You are living in a fantasy world if you think feeds and magic are for everyone. That's just to silence the masses. Go look at the Class of 2017 Facebook page and back in Feb-Apr, pack sniffers who will never spend a day hiking the trail themselves were tripping over themselves trying to find out where the bubble would be to provide magic to the Thru hikers.

Sir-PacksAlot even had separate prices between Thru hikers and everyone else before getting blasted on social media. I've had well known trail angels in PA& NJ tell me they charge Thru hikers a lower price than section hikers for shuttles.

On my attempt this year, I personally witnessed a group of ladies at Woody Gap tell section hikers their food was for Thru hikers only. Further up the trail in NC, one group hemmed and hawed when a section hiker asked if he could partake. He had been hiking with us from the start so before the group said anything we started tossing cans of coke at him to drink.

Ending Thru hiker entitlement starts with ending feeds, reduced rate services, discouraging pack sniffers handing out food, etc. Starchild's post may be on the exaggeration side but there is more truth in her post than not.

As for shelter entitlement, first come first served. I have no problem telling a Thru hiker to pound sand when demanding space just as I have told the same thing to a section hiker.

[tdoczi]

There's some folks on here mocking this post and laughing at it but I'm actually in agreement with Starchild. I'm not saying I endorse Thru hiker favoritism, but I am saying it exists and it's real. People often talk about the hikers themselves being entitled but it is more comprehensive and more broad than some 20-something kid feeling entitled.

It starts with AWOLS guide listing Thru hiker specials. Then there's trail magic. You are living in a fantasy world if you think feeds and magic are for everyone. That's just to silence the masses. Go look at the Class of 2017 Facebook page and back in Feb-Apr, pack sniffers who will never spend a day hiking the trail themselves were tripping over themselves trying to find out where the bubble would be to provide magic to the Thru hikers.

Sir-PacksAlot even had separate prices between Thru hikers and everyone else before getting blasted on social media. I've had well known trail angels in PA& NJ tell me they charge Thru hikers a lower price than section hikers for shuttles.

On my attempt this year, I personally witnessed a group of ladies at Woody Gap tell section hikers their food was for Thru hikers only. Further up the trail in NC, one group hemmed and hawed when a section hiker asked if he could partake. He had been hiking with us from the start so before the group said anything we started tossing cans of coke at him to drink.

Ending Thru hiker entitlement starts with ending feeds, reduced rate services, discouraging pack sniffers handing out food, etc. Starchild's post may be on the exaggeration side but there is more truth in her post than not.

As for shelter entitlement, first come first served. I have no problem telling a Thru hiker to pound sand when demanding space just as I have told the same thing to a section hiker.

what you and starchild are saying, to my reading, are two very different things, though related.

as for your points, one has to make a distinction between people who are in the business of making money (i dont mean that in as mean spirited a way as some may take it) off of the thru hiker bubble and well... i can think of no other way to put than what i'll call "AT groupies." the people you reference wholl never set foot on the trail themselves but go to the ends of the earth to help people who, in the grand scheme of things, are really in no need what so ever of assistance. they are a curious lots, those folks, i'll agree with you there.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

Actually thru hikers are unquestionably given preferential treatment, as they should be. Local, state and federal law encodes this favoritism, depending on the location, but most notably they can camp where others can not. Also it is in society in general, the trail magic is for the thru hikers, others may glom some, but if there were no thru hikers there would be no such trail magic, it's because and for the thru hikers. So the argument that trail magic should be for any hiker and not exclusive for thrus just doesn't hold any weight, as without thrus there is no trail magic in it's common form along the AT. And they deserve it, They are doing something wonderful, something few people dare to do, but so needed in society - to leave it for a long time to pursue their dreams.

Weekenders are more of the vacationing problem, thru hikers are experiencing live, not escaping it.

As for the shelters, the thrus will get the nod and people who violate this will be looked down upon if they take it with a self righteous attitude. It's unofficial, but karmically correct, a show of respect.

Wow, just wow.

I want some of what you're smoking.

[JumpMaster Blaster]

If we are going to reserve shelter space and give priority to "special" and/or "privileged" groups of people, how about we start with ATC members, trail maintainers, and disabled veterans?

I'm being slightly sarcastic; this is aimed to those that think thru hikers are "magical" and "wonderful" as if they're doing something for the greater good of the trail and mankind, and not in it for themselves and their personal growth and enjoyment (or lack of wanting to be a part of society).

I mean seriously, you're on a vacay just like any other section hiker, weekend warrior, or day hiker. It's not the freaking Bataan Death March, and you're not a P.O.W.

[Ankle Bone]

Wow, just wow.

I want some of what you're smoking.

Amen! Amen! Amen!

As a Section Hiker, I am happy when hiker feeds (not Trail Magic) are not for me. I'm not out there for hand-outs and road crossing get-togethers

[Grampie]

While on my thru, SOBO, I was taking a break at Wilcox North shelter. Two weekend hikers came in and informed me that the next shelter, Wilcox South, had been reserved by a couple and they could not stay there. That was to be my final destination. When I arrived at the shelter there was indeed a couple there. They had a nice fire going with a huge pile of fire wood. I greeted them with a cheery "hello". They said nothing. They had their stuff spread out taking the whole floor. I asked them if they could move some of their stuff so that I could have some room. I was than asked if I was going to spend the night and I informed them that was my plan. I was waiting for them to tell me that they had it reserved but they didn't. I took out my pad and opened up my. Sleeping bag. They left the shelter and I could see them having a discussion as to what they would do. Without saying a word to me, they started to pack up their stuff. i asked them if they were moving on and they said their plans had changed. As they were leaving I said good by. He answered that I could use his fire wood. I may have approached it differently if it was not for the other hikers who told me that they had it reserved.

[Dogwood]

..
this is aimed to those that think thru hikers are... doing something for the greater good of the trail and mankind, and not in it for themselves and their personal growth and enjoyment (or lack of wanting to be a part of society).

I mean seriously, you're on a vacay just like any other section hiker, weekend warrior, or day hiker. It's not the freaking Bataan Death March, and you're not a P.O.W.

And the same labels can easily be applied to ANY hiker including section hikers. That is NOT, repeat NOT a comment against section hikers or any HIKER. It is made to see the some of the ridiculousness in categorizing and shouldering people with labels.

Some of the most profound and honestly accurate accounts of thru-hikers can be had by reading Spirit Eagle's Thru-Hiking papers. Still honestly pertinent years after it was written. Take it form Spirit Walker/Spirit Eagle who are experienced and non grandstanding thru-hikers, section hikers, and "just" hikers. I suggest we all spend a moment to read and consider it. http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/TH_attitude.html

[TD55]

For what is worth, here is what I find objectionable to the concept of thru hikers having special rights to the use of shelters.
I did my first volunteer trail maintenance on the AT over 50 years ago as a Boy Scout. Since then, I have done various volunteer projects, both organized and on my own in every decade since the 60's. In addition, I have made financial contributions to many Trail Clubs that maintain the trail and shelters for almost as long. Whenever I visit the AT, whether, for a few weeks or a few days, the first thing I do when I get home is to send a small donation to the club that maintains the section of trail I visited. I do not expect everyone to do the same, but it makes me feel good to do it. Every donation helps, even the small twenty dollar ones.
My opinion is that the folks like me who actually have helped pay for the shelters and trail have as much right as anyone to use a shelter if we adhere to the first come first serve rule that has been an accepted tradition since I first hiked the trail over 50 years ago. I see no reason to change that tradition.

[tdoczi]

For what is worth, here is what I find objectionable to the concept of thru hikers having special rights to the use of shelters.
I did my first volunteer trail maintenance on the AT over 50 years ago as a Boy Scout. Since then, I have done various volunteer projects, both organized and on my own in every decade since the 60's. In addition, I have made financial contributions to many Trail Clubs that maintain the trail and shelters for almost as long. Whenever I visit the AT, whether, for a few weeks or a few days, the first thing I do when I get home is to send a small donation to the club that maintains the section of trail I visited. I do not expect everyone to do the same, but it makes me feel good to do it. Every donation helps, even the small twenty dollar ones.
My opinion is that the folks like me who actually have helped pay for the shelters and trail have as much right as anyone to use a shelter if we adhere to the first come first serve rule that has been an accepted tradition since I first hiked the trail over 50 years ago. I see no reason to change that tradition.

so as someone who has invested much in the construction and maintenance of these shelters, how do you feel about people like the family i encountered at the hemlocks or the couple the above poster encountered at wilcox? that all good with you or are they warping and twisting the intention of your work?

[Starchild]

While on my thru, SOBO, I was taking a break at Wilcox North shelter. Two weekend hikers came in and informed me that the next shelter, Wilcox South, had been reserved by a couple and they could not stay there. That was to be my final destination. When I arrived at the shelter there was indeed a couple there. They had a nice fire going with a huge pile of fire wood. I greeted them with a cheery "hello". They said nothing. They had their stuff spread out taking the whole floor. I asked them if they could move some of their stuff so that I could have some room. I was than asked if I was going to spend the night and I informed them that was my plan. I was waiting for them to tell me that they had it reserved but they didn't. I took out my pad and opened up my. Sleeping bag. They left the shelter and I could see them having a discussion as to what they would do. Without saying a word to me, they started to pack up their stuff. i asked them if they were moving on and they said their plans had changed. As they were leaving I said good by. He answered that I could use his fire wood. I may have approached it differently if it was not for the other hikers who told me that they had it reserved.

IIRC South Wilcox Shelter is actually 2 shelters, a old one that comes up first and is obvious and going a little further down the blue blazed trail a new one but somewhat hidden. Perhaps they moved to the other one?

[Starchild]

And the same labels can easily be applied to ANY hiker including section hikers. That is NOT, repeat NOT a comment against section hikers or any HIKER. It is made to see the some of the ridiculousness in categorizing and shouldering people with labels.

Some of the most profound and honestly accurate accounts of thru-hikers can be had by reading Spirit Eagle's Thru-Hiking papers. Still honestly pertinent years after it was written. Take it form Spirit Walker/Spirit Eagle who are experienced and non grandstanding thru-hikers, section hikers, and "just" hikers. I suggest we all spend a moment to read and consider it. http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/TH_attitude.html

One difference is that the change of lifestyle that is required while thru hiking. Forging what most take for granted for months. This gives an opportunity for others to give to people who will gratefully accept. It is easy and sometimes fun to forgo real food, in favor for backpacking food, for a weekend, but to do it regularly (and when you get to town restaurant food which also gets old fast too), some real food given allows a exchange, a easy gift that means so much to another, that is the defining difference. Gratefully receiving very simple stuff, that is the cornerstone of thru hiker trail magic and what attracts trail angels to the AT.

[TD55]

so as someone who has invested much in the construction and maintenance of these shelters, how do you feel about people like the family i encountered at the hemlocks or the couple the above poster encountered at wilcox? that all good with you or are they warping and twisting the intention of your work?

I am sorry if the trail has become overcrowded at times, but the traditional rules have served the trail for a long time and there is no reason they still can't. No one has a right to claim a shelter for themselves or their particular group. Tradition says each person has a right to space the size of their sleeping bag. If a person or persons don't like sleeping shoulder to shoulder jammed to maximum capacity they should set up their tent, tarp, whatever. If they don't have one they don't belong on the trail. For sure, no one has a right to fill a shelter built to hold 10 or 12 people with 5 or 6 friends and claim it for themselves.

[tdoczi]

I am sorry if the trail has become overcrowded at times, but the traditional rules have served the trail for a long time and there is no reason they still can't. No one has a right to claim a shelter for themselves or their particular group. Tradition says each person has a right to space the size of their sleeping bag. If a person or persons don't like sleeping shoulder to shoulder jammed to maximum capacity they should set up their tent, tarp, whatever. If they don't have one they don't belong on the trail. For sure, no one has a right to fill a shelter built to hold 10 or 12 people with 5 or 6 friends and claim it for themselves.

do you think ignorant of trail etiquette and customs amongst people who are not regular users of the AT could perhaps be to blame, or are these people just obvious and inconsiderate? do you feel an established and published set of rules that says more than "first come, first served" might cause at least some of these people to see the error of their ways?

[rickb]

They left the shelter and I could see them having a discussion as to what they would do. Without saying a word to me, they started to pack up their stuff. i asked them if they were moving on and they said their plans had changed. As they were leaving I said good by. He answered that I could use his fire wood. I may have approached it differently if it was not for the other hikers who told me that they had it reserved.

Four of the people murdered on the AT were young heterosexual couples who elected to stay at a shelter with a lone male.

While I agree you had every right to stay at the shelter, it may have been that arrival of a non-communicative male hiker made one or both of the couple uncomfortable. If they felt that way, it is understandable that they left the way they did.

In fact I give them props for doing so.

That said, I absolutely get why you claimed your spot the way you did -- and might well have done so in the same way myself -- but just a bit of friendly banter and sharing some of your background while you did so might have been kinder.

Just some thoughts -- I wasn't there and think a bit differently about these things than most.

[TD55]

do you think ignorant of trail etiquette and customs amongst people who are not regular users of the AT could perhaps be to blame, or are these people just obvious and inconsiderate? do you feel an established and published set of rules that says more than "first come, first served" might cause at least some of these people to see the error of their ways?

I think people who depend on shelters for sleeping during the busiest parts of the hiking season are very foolish. They have lots of uses but sleeping in them generally sucks.

[tdoczi]

I think people who depend on shelters for sleeping during the busiest parts of the hiking season are very foolish. They have lots of uses but sleeping in them generally sucks.

not the question i asked at all, but thanks.

i sleep in them all the time. i've never found anything at all about it to suck.

and i've even spent the night at cooper lodge.

[Praha4]

some of the college orientation groups in southern Vermont in August also pretty much take over shelters too and tell AT and LT hikers the shelter is full and "reserved" for the college orientation group. Happened to us last August on two nights with Yale orientation groups at both shelters. Was news to me because in past years it was policy that the college orientation groups could not reserve or take over a shelter, they used to bring their own tents and camp away from the shelters.

[Traffic Jam]

not the question i asked at all, but thanks.

i sleep in them all the time. i've never found anything at all about it to suck.

and i've even spent the night at cooper lodge.

I have a soft spot in my heart for shelters. I'm one of those idiots who didn't know better and relied on shelters for at least a year, maybe two, instead of carrying my own.

Gear is expensive and I couldn't afford everything so all my hikes were planned around shelters. Shelters helped me learn how to be a hiker and I met some really neat people who taught me a lot.

In my defense, I didn't know any other hikers, wasn't a Boy Scout, and didn't know about online hiking sites. All I knew is that I wanted to hike snd didn't have a tent.

Sorry to be so irresponsible, alligator.

[Sarcasm the elf]

some of the college orientation groups in southern Vermont in August also pretty much take over shelters too and tell AT and LT hikers the shelter is full and "reserved" for the college orientation group. Happened to us last August on two nights with Yale orientation groups at both shelters. Was news to me because in past years it was policy that the college orientation groups could not reserve or take over a shelter, they used to bring their own tents and camp away from the shelters.

I strongly suspect those groups were flat out lying to you.

https://www.greenmountainclub.org/groups/

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