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  1. #121
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.d.kirk View Post
    Good point. Darn, I thought we'd eek out an extra 10 minutes for Joey He'll need every second he can get:

    http://www.animaps.com/pb/416150002/...ash_unofficial
    Greetings from the top of Katahdin at 6:38pm where I was greeted by 70 mile winds, hail, rain, mist, endless boulder scrambles

    I'm going by the stated time, not the time he posted. Couscous maybe correct- but why would he state the time unless it was the time he finished?
    Either way... a few minutes faster than the time the spot reported (where I assume GJ got the first time) seems about right.


    If he can't pick a damn finish time I say DQ... I'm not running those numbers again.

  2. #122
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    Ooo... this map moves!

  3. #123
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    Really want to hear Joey's reaction to this.
    I don't know the guy. Is he the type to still be happy with a PB? Where is he mentally right now?

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottS View Post
    Really want to hear Joey's reaction to this.
    I don't know the guy. Is he the type to still be happy with a PB? Where is he mentally right now?
    I think Bill did the math. Flash can top Stringbean if he averages 54 miles a day from here on out which I think is actually doable for him. He's already done with the hard part of his hike. I expect we'll see quite a few 60-70 milers down south IF he can get/stay healthy. Right?

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottS View Post
    Really want to hear Joey's reaction to this.
    I don't know the guy. Is he the type to still be happy with a PB? Where is he mentally right now?
    HMMMM... tricky. Not in a negative way, just don't know if I want to speak for him on something like this and I don't know if he has processed it yet either. He found out last night fairly late.

    How's this... My first reaction was shock, and some disbelief. Not at the time, but at pulling it out given Joe's condition, first time status, and linear pacing strategy. When Joe posted his halfway going Nobo and was looking to pick up the pace on the second half. When he disappeared in the Whites and realized how hard they really were. When he was describing his physical condition, calories, and breakdown. His once perfect insty posts started having some math and typing errors, then a few misfired or didn't go out. Then the news at the Kennebec and this mad dash to the finish. All pretty shocking and unbelievable developments at every turn from Joe. I had Joe pegged for a 50 perhaps, but not this. Kudos to Joe for sure... just giving my opinion. I believe in unbelievable things.

    But the time isn't unbelievable. That's only shocking because it's the wrong Joe, lol.
    Aim high, miss well... Joey was going for the overall the whole time. Sub 50 if things went poorly, sneaking by Anish as a last resort.
    Sounds a bit cocky perhaps but Joey's pretty unique in what he's been doing as a multi-sport guy and basically full time outdoors person professionally.

    So pace for Karl's time. Keep up with Karl on the SOBO, but cautiously. He did it perfect.
    There was a sketchy weather day as he came into Gorham, and he made the call to pull the breaks at 2pm. The right call.
    The weather opened up the next day and he ended up barely a half day behind Karl and 9 miles behind Jen. Feeling good, with no real harm done.
    Recover from the Whites through Vermont, and pick it up in the mid-atlantic... all on track...even ahead of schedule he was running, feeling good, falling into the hike.
    Then he was going to just do his Joey thing and take what the trail gave him... upper 40's, slipping to 50's, and probably quite a few 60's with a big push at the end like Karl did.

    Then he got hurt... 11 days ago. And re-hurt a few days ago when he tried running again.
    Joey was mainly doing his Joey thing. Working on getting his quad back in shape for running.
    And last night he found out about Joe's time.

    Originally- if things weren't coming out well... fall back to sub 50 as the target. After his injury it was looking like plan B... worst case plan C.
    It is what it is. B&C are off the table. So is Karl. It's Stringbean now...
    Joey said on insty that Joe was inspiration and for sure it is. All the battles Joe has fought and won, the big miles that Joe put up- those are inspiring.
    He and I both felt he could hit 50-60... but just when Joey was really getting into the groove after the whites he got hurt. But Joey knows that kinda running can be done because of Joe.


    There is a path for him here. It's not quite as shocking as Stringbean's.
    This is Joey's third FKT attempt. His second on the AT. He feels really good about his gear, very dialed in. He brought his camel up strategy back from the PCT and was hardly carrying any water at all.
    He helped his buddy set a world record over the off-season, doing half the record in the process- just to help a friend and because he enjoys it.

    His leg seems to be doing better (55, and 54 last two days) and he's coming up on Bear's Den and smoother sailing overall. Hopeful for the Shennies regarding healing.
    He's going to have to get uncomfortable as far as some extra hours, which could put him in danger of re-injury, and outside what he does best.
    He's out of time to ramp up as planned basically. He's going to have to start looking towards those 55-60's when the trail and his body let him.

    Joey is a very neat guy- a hyperactive Buddhist. He LOVES this stuff. He's free... he's the kind of person who is really in the self-supported groove. I don't know if he could do supported. He feeds on good energy... and once the shock is passed I'd guess that all Joey will feel towards Stringbean is gratitude for the inspiration. It may turn out that the best thing that ever happened to Joey was Joe's hike. There's always some doubt when you dream big... Joe just proved that Joey's dreams were not too big. They are real. He is the kind of guy who sees somebody do well and gets fired up from it. He is capable of this if his body plays along...

    So now comes one of Joey's favorite questions to ask himself- Can I do that?

    As far as all or nothing: I think it's injury or nothing.
    Joey hurt his foot first time... good enough to call for a ride to the ER.
    I told him he was no longer eligible to claim an FKT.
    He took a zero, got back on the trail, and finished.

    He did have to leave the trail on the PCT... after digging and digging at his subcutaneous blister for weeks and making a mess of his foot.
    It was infected and Joey has enough head on his shoulders to know this isn't life or death.
    And as it turns out... Karl happened to tell the story once or twice about how a surgical needle solved that problem, the exact problem that knocked Karl and Joey out on past attempts.
    Joey has one of those needles in his pack this time.

    If this gets too far out of reach and he's not healing... he will look to the long term.
    But if he can go... he will go.


    This has always been about the trail and the fastest known Joey.
    The record is just a good excuse to be there.

  6. #126
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    I can't give out the latest math without giving away his position unfortunately.

    But yes- we have a race.
    And Matt has a map.

    Happy Labor Day to Joey Camps!

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Bill View Post
    I can't give out the latest math without giving away his position unfortunately.

    But yes- we have a race.
    And Matt has a map.

    Happy Labor Day to Joey Camps!
    And a spreadsheet that needs mileposts entered. Ughhh ;-)

  8. #128
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    Looks like last post was near the Potomac River (mile 1023.7 from Springer) at about 28.5DQ days. SB's time is 45.5DQ days. So that gives 17 days to Springer to tie.
    1023.7 mi/17 day = 60 mile / day.
    ...
    Edited ca 9/2/17 10 pm:
    I didn't enlarge the map and was off by almost 1/2 day, or Joey was about 999 miles from Springer with 17 days to go.
    So closer to 999/17 = 58.8 mi/day.

    I'm switching to this map:
    https://mapalist.com/map/638124

    and with 16.1 days left and 945 mile to go, he still needs to do 58.8 mile/day.

    I will not post anymore updates in this thread.
    Last edited by ARambler; 09-02-2017 at 22:34. Reason: Did not know how to enlarge the map.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Far be it from me to diminish this, but would it qualify as self supported?
    Trail angels?Sloppy joes?

    Sounds like theres still another record to be had for self supported in style of Matt or Anish. But I didnt pay any attention, dont know.

    "It is the people you love and who surround you who provide the greatest joy. It really took a village. I want to give a heartfelt thank you to my lovely girlfriend, Katie, my parents and the Katzmans who came to the start/finish, friends and family who I have HEAVILY leaned on, hikers, trail angels and the trail community who have given me everything from sloppy Joe's to an extra set of batteries to allow me to run through the night,"
    Well, doesn't that pretty much do away with the claim to the self-supported record? Serious props to SB for admitting that the help allowed him to run through the night. Now, there is NO doubt that the aid he received provided a definitive performance/strategic advantage not available to a self-supported attempt. Or, am I missing something here? It's battery-gate and pizza-gate rolled into one. Except, that there is the ULTIMATE title, the FKT for the AT and Joe apparently has it!!!

    CONGRATS!!!

    Now, Joey can at least grab the self-supported mantle, right?

    Or, as usual, am I missing something here?

    CONGRATS JOE!!

    GO JOEY!!!

    I think....

  10. #130
    Ounces are the little-death
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    You can yogi but you can't have your homie intentionally show up with a pizza.

  11. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottS View Post
    You can yogi but you can't have your homie intentionally show up with a pizza.
    Well once he set his sights on overall, anything counts for dat but yellow blazing. I can see shifting gears when he knew that was in reach.

  12. #132

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    Correct. Trail magic has always been allowed IIRC. No prearranged support allowed.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Green View Post
    Correct. Trail magic has always been allowed IIRC. No prearranged support allowed.
    Yogying and trail magic are not the same thing IMO. I think yogying would be a gray area.
    There's always been a small part of me that doesn't take a FKT too seriously and it's because they don't have the rules locked down. It's still just a fun thing for me. But it is getting better.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottS View Post
    You can yogi but you can't have your homie intentionally show up with a pizza.
    Had to be a yogi, because I've never encountered random acts of kindness that involve free batteries right when I need them...sodas, beers, energy bars, brats, candy...yeah...batteries....not so much...

    Didn't know you could yogi.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chair-man View Post
    Yogying and trail magic are not the same thing IMO. I think yogying would be a gray area.
    There's always been a small part of me that doesn't take a FKT too seriously and it's because they don't have the rules locked down. It's still just a fun thing for me. But it is getting better.
    I mean, what's the difference really? One way makes you ask for a Coke, the other someone offers it. Splitting hairs in my mind. Neither is prearranged support which is the rule to my understanding. I understand there's a line that can't be crossed in there somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Green View Post
    I mean, what's the difference really? One way makes you ask for a Coke, the other someone offers it. Splitting hairs in my mind. Neither is prearranged support which is the rule to my understanding. I understand there's a line that can't be crossed in there somewhere.
    I think that line is ....are they offering it to everyone....and .....did they show up because of you in first place...which a lot of groupies do. Even with delays, some people out there, some on this board, will specifically go out attempting to intersect and meet fkt hikers. Food bearing groupies do too.

    Extends to towns too, dont need to be limited to on- trail stuff.

    simply avoid free anything, or assistance in general to avoid controversy. Personally
    I cant see expending the time and effort, and accepting anything that remotely might cause controversy.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-02-2017 at 04:47.

  17. #137
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    BC grad breaks Appalachian Trail record with final push of 37 sleepless hours

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...AQO/story.html

    Shared from my Google feed


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #138
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    RE yogi/magic: I agree that it's a gray area and a slippery slope. Those who've been following these FKTs for a while know that in 2013, I received trail magic on several occasions with one in particular being a classic yogi scenario. This encounter and most all others were reported on daily video journals. Since then, I've been called out by some who hold an embellished perception of the event (most recently here on WB). A few more thoughts on the matter:

    First of all, this issue is inexorably linked to the need for greater transparency. In the thread linked above, OP considers my 2013 hike a DQ while praising Anish. I can't blame him for a lack of access to 2015 documentation revealing how I'm not the only self-supported FKT claimant "guilty" of yogi/magic encounters. How I know this: a random friend's FB post. This is unfortunate, as honest and thorough documentation should remain the standard.

    So while I (rightly or wrongly) rationalized that no such yogi/magic encounter in 2013 constituted prearranged support (another one of seven self-imposed guidelines), I also readily and publicly accounted for these events. As for the numbers (taken from my response in thread linked above): the estimated calories that I received from hikers along the entire trail amounted to ~2000; ~500 were yogi-ed; a drop in the bucket (0.17%) to total calories burned.

    But like I said, I agree that this is a slippery slope. What happens when that percentage starts creeping up? What to make of asking for batteries, errands, other favors? When does this become a supported hike? These are all good questions to which I don't have answers. Ultimately, this all hinges on honest and thorough documentation from the claimant. I give Joe credit for crediting his angels. I also look forward to a more thorough account of his feat!

  19. #139

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    To me it is very clear that Stringbean's hike falls into the unsupported category. It doesn't take a close examination to see that his hike was very, very difference from Speedgoat's fully-supported style, or Jennifer's fully-supported style. Stringbean had to hike into town, deal with logistical issues regarding getting food, laundry, etc. He didn't have fresh shoes and socks waiting at every road crossing with an ice bath, or a crew ready to run to town to satisfy his food cravings. If Stringbean accepted a little bit of food, which he seems to have been fully transparent about, this does not negate his unsupported hike. At very most it might put an asterisk next to it, for those who are looking to split hairs.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew.d.kirk View Post
    RE yogi/magic: I agree that it's a gray area and a slippery slope. Those who've been following these FKTs for a while know that in 2013, I received trail magic on several occasions with one in particular being a classic yogi scenario. This encounter and most all others were reported on daily video journals. Since then, I've been called out by some who hold an embellished perception of the event (most recently here on WB). A few more thoughts on the matter:

    First of all, this issue is inexorably linked to the need for greater transparency. In the thread linked above, OP considers my 2013 hike a DQ while praising Anish. I can't blame him for a lack of access to 2015 documentation revealing how I'm not the only self-supported FKT claimant "guilty" of yogi/magic encounters. How I know this: a random friend's FB post. This is unfortunate, as honest and thorough documentation should remain the standard.

    So while I (rightly or wrongly) rationalized that no such yogi/magic encounter in 2013 constituted prearranged support (another one of seven self-imposed guidelines), I also readily and publicly accounted for these events. As for the numbers (taken from my response in thread linked above): the estimated calories that I received from hikers along the entire trail amounted to ~2000; ~500 were yogi-ed; a drop in the bucket (0.17%) to total calories burned.

    But like I said, I agree that this is a slippery slope. What happens when that percentage starts creeping up? What to make of asking for batteries, errands, other favors? When does this become a supported hike? These are all good questions to which I don't have answers. Ultimately, this all hinges on honest and thorough documentation from the claimant. I give Joe credit for crediting his angels. I also look forward to a more thorough account of his feat!
    Good work

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