Visiting physician sheds new light on Lyme disease
that's been posted already. can't forget that doctor's name.
It seems so....odd that this would take place at "Grand Rounds" on Martha's Vinyard. MV has maybe 15k residents, almost all of whom are so freaking wealthy that they would only be at Vinyard Hospital long enough for the helicopter to take them to Boston. Seriously. MVH has....25 beds. Grand Rounds in a 25 bed hospital...it's enough to make you bust a suture laughing....Originally Posted by Dogwood
Now, if she had pulled this at Mass General....considering the CDC rejects both her treatment and pathology "theories", as do the vast majority of infectious disease specialists, I doubt she would have received as warm a reception as she did at the world famous MVH....she's news because she has unproven "theories" that people who suffer from the disease want to believe in. Like cancer patients want to believe Laetrile is a thing. Or coffee enemas...
Note that she boasts herself a "patient advocate". That is NOT what a real medical researcher refers to themselves as.
Ah, but she is entitled to call herself anything she pleases. Woe be unto anyone who says otherwise.
"Know what I mean Vern"
Wayne
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You mean like:
Attending physician at Harvard Medical School and co-director of Dean Center for Tick Borne Illness at Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital in Charlestown (SRH)
No. I mean like "patient advocate".
Does Harvard grant advanced degrees as a patient advocate?
Wayne
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Worth reading. I believe there is such a thing as "chronic Lyme" inasmuch as Lyme is a constellation of disease agents and that they often linger in the body for a long time. I have a lot of respect for this disease, from personal experience and a close non-hiking friend. Read the book Sierra Noir for a forest ranger's account of chronic Lyme.
Are you saying that there are bacteria and/or viruses other than borrelia burgdorfi that cause Lyme disease? Can you share your sources for this information?
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
Ok, let me rephrase that. Lyme is one of many tick-borne diseases. And Lyme itself can manifest in many ways with a wide range of symptoms.
yup, all depends on where those pesky spirochetes set up shop, lungs, heart, brain...
The CDC is so against recognizing Lyme and all it's complications I have a friend whose sister is having to go to Germany to get proper treatment. The MA governor just rejected a bill that would define CLD as a "disease and pre-existing condition" meaning insurance companies would have to cover long term treatment. I have a friend who has been battling Lyme for probably a decade or more. Her diagnosis was delayed for years because she had to seek out diagnosis to get the test "that isn't usually performed" done.
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Worth reading:
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/chr...egative-study/
Yep.
Again, people who are sick are desperate for a cure. Something very odd about this MD's creds....I don't see anywhere that she is a board-certified infectious disease specialist. She appears to be a board-certified internist or she wouldn't be a Harvard attending MD. But, she doesn't seem to have the sub-specialty. Probably because she would be booted out by the Society for her whack-a-doodle "theories". She even admits she is "new" to "this". If it were me, I'd run from her and her clinic like my hair was on fire...straight to the Mayo...
There is a reason your insurance doesn't cover "chronic Lyme disease"....the reason? It's not a real thing...
Then how 'bout this?:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/h...ed-states.html
This is accurate. There is more than one tick-born disease. Some are bacterial, like Lyme, and some are viral, like Bourbon and Heartland. As ticks populate new regions, it is only natural that they will acquire the local pathogens.
I'd be a ton more worried about Bourbon and Heartland. Bourbon just claimed the life of a State Park employee in Missouri who contracted it at the State Park. Bourbon and Heartland are untreatable virus. You will either get better or you will die. Bourbon seems to have an alarmingly high morbidity rate in humans. It makes Lyme and RMSF look like a head cold....
I see wisdom in what you say, but must admit I am now more confused than ever.
Definitions can be tricky.
If there is no such thing as "chronic Lyme disease", does that mean all cases are acute and curable-- or just go away by themselves? If so, that is great news.
If that is in fact the case, does the acute case of Lyme disease leave any damage in its wake once it is "gone"?
Perhaps my confusion is because that I am thinking of "chronic" as an adjective, whereas others I thinking of it a discrete diagnosis.
In my experience, physicians are all over the map with tick bites.
I was once prescribed a prophylactic (2 pills) for a tick bite under circumstances that were aligned with one possible approach recommended by the CDC's 2006 recommendations.
A family member was recently prescribed (by a different physician) a full 2-week course of Doxy for an embedded tick, without any specific indication or tests of infection.
I mention that not to open debate as to whether or not their Rx was appropriate (I have my doubts) but just to say that the treatment one gets or not will depend as much on the individual Doctor, than anything published by the CDC or other less authoritative group.
Yup, more confused than ever-- but I now have multiple tick removal kits and magnifiers (car trunk, with pack and home) given the stakes.
Acute and chronic are terms that relate to time. Acute means something that just happened, chronic means something that is long term and on going. I think what the first article is getting at is that "chronic Lyme disease" is not a long term on going infection from the Lyme bacteria. I believe that the author is postulating is that the original Lyme infection was treated and is gone but another secondary problem that was triggered by the Lyme disease is the ongoing problem in those folks who have "chronic Lyme disease" symptoms. I don't believe he is saying there is nothing wrong with people who have "chronic Lyme disease" it just isn't Lyme disease any more but it is something else as a result of the Lyme disease.
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.
I'm sure this is the doctor who practices in Boston who is treating a friend of mines son. At 14 he was bitten by a tick, showed the typical rash, got the typical treatment and almost died in the hospital. It took him 5 years to recover to an almost normal life. Oh, and insurance doesn't cover most of the treatments. I know they've spent over $200,000.
"Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011
If the "treatments" involved long-term antibiotics, it's quackery. The bacteria that causes Lyme is killed by the antibiotics and the kill is confirmed with the lack of positive test results. If the bacteria is present, but the disease is in latent stage, it will still show positive, because the bacteria is present even though latent. . The lack of bacteria means no more Lyme disease. Period. What you have though is the destruction left in the wake of the bacteria. Which is likely no more treatable than the destruction left in the wake of TB bacteria or Staph bacteria or Syphilis spirochetes. Or the Polio virus. Any long-term improvement is likely in spite of treatment, not due to it. If you want to think of spirochete bacteria and how they work, look at syphilis. The problem really, as I see it, is that many people get bitten and don't know it. Or get bit and don't get the bullseye. Then, Lyme goes into a long-term process that permanently destroys things and permanently damages the autoimmune system. It is the failure to treat Lyme EARLY that is likely the culprit for the devastating symptoms that persist in some patients. Much like syphilis. Treat it at first symptom or suspicion of exposure, no issue. Wait until it passes it's latency period and becomes later active for a long period and you have horrific permanent damage and eventually death. It's what killed Al Capone...
Also, most people, doctors included, tend not to worry about concurrent infection from the same tick of different pathogen(s). Like a tick containing BOTH bacterial and viral pathogens. It is not uncommon. You look for Lyme and find it, you tend not to keep looking....
Again, if you want a tick-borne disease that is scary as hell, it isn't Lyme. It's Bourbon or Heartland. They are the most devastating tick-borne diseases known to man and are present and growing in the Midwest, especially Missouri. Again, these two have NO treatment. You either get better or you don't. If you don't, you die. Period. Apparently the mortality rate may be as high as 40 or 50 percent...
Sorry for your friend's son's problems. Glad he experienced improvement.
Interesting discussion.
I expect I am not alone in having interpreted "there is no such thing as chronic Lyme disease" to have meant "the long-term symptoms people are reporting are not caused by ticks". How much more clear it would it have been for the CDC to add the following to their statement regarding chronic Lyme disease:
While the CDC has determined that chronic Lyme disease is a myth, it is important to also recognize that the CDC understands that:
- Lyme disease can have a devastating impact
- This impact can persist for years -- or even a lifetime
- The adverse outcomes felt by patients are very real, and persist even after the patient has been cured of lyme disease (which is a simple and straight forward process)
- The CDC cannot recommend any treatment to address persistent symptoms
Or have I missed something?
Last edited by rickb; 07-26-2017 at 05:39.
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