Bivy Sack/bag?

[One Half]

Anyone use one instead of a tent?
Are there any that are worth anything and weigh less than 11 oz and will take up less space than my zpacks solplex?
Any recommendations?

[ChuckT]

I tried these way back when. At that time I thought it was too small. Settled on a 2 man, 2 piece (separately fly) mesh tent for the extra room and air ventilation. Course I was romancing this gal then. Gotta be the _best_ way to fly.

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[Slo-go'en]

An 11 oz bivy isn't going to be much more then a waterproof sleeve over your bag. Which is okay if that's all you need. I have an old gortex bivy of this type, but weights a pound.

More sophisticated designs include hoops to keep the fabric away from your face and have netting for bug protection. The weight of these may equal or exceed that of your current tent.

I have an older "OR Advanced Bivy" which actually weighs more then my SMD Trekker tent, but I still use it on some trips. Mostly in the fall when I can reasonably expect it not to rain. The main reason for using the bivy instead of the tent is ease of set up in diverse locations. it also gives my bag rating a bigger boost then the tent does.

Here's what it looked like one morning last fall..
IMG_20161015_064940.jpg

[Traffic Jam]

Anyone use one instead of a tent?
Are there any that are worth anything and weigh less than 11 oz and will take up less space than my zpacks solplex?
Any recommendations?

Do you intend to use a tarp? What do you require as far as water proofing and breathability?

Have you looked at the bivy's from Mountain Laurel Design?

[ScareBear]

Are you claustrophobic? If so, skip the bivy "experience"...

I suppose bivy's have their place in certain settings, like suspended on a vertical rock wall, but as a weight-saver, they are historical artifacts and you are far better off in a UL tent, like a Soloplex.

[cmoulder]

A common strategy is to use a bivy with a very light tarp, using the bivy by itself when you're confident it isn't going to rain and adding the tarp when precip is likely.

A very light combo would be a Zpacks Pocket Tarp with a Splash bivy, which would weigh about 13-14 oz when you add guy lines and stakes.

However, if insects are a problem it is better just to use a Solplex (or other 1-person tarp tent) as recommended so that you have a more spacious bug-free haven and a vestibule for cooking when it rains.

[daddytwosticks]

I have an older SMD Meteor Bug Bivy that I use in shelters and under tarps in warmer weather. I use a very light weight down quilt in this bivy. The Meteor still feels claustrophobic, but it keeps the bugs and rodents off me.

[One Half]

Sounds like I will be sticking with my soloplex. Always looking to cut weight and/or bulk.

[CalebJ]

I'm always a bit confused by the claustrophobic references to bivy sacks. Your mummy bag is already more constricting, so what's the big deal? In any case, as someone else suggested above, a 6-10 ounce water resistant bivy with bug mesh plus a lightweight tarp is a really nice, flexible combination that weighs very little.

[Dogwood]

I'll opt for a bivy over a tent often. I do it to save wt, bulk, and complexity. Throwing a bivy down saves me break down time over a tent too especially compared to something with as many guylines/stakes to adjust as a ZP Soloplex or some of my hammock/suspension/UQ/cover tarp set ups. I'll do also opt for a bivy for other reasons as Ryan Jordan nicely states "...its aesthetic appeal. Camping in a bivy sack seems to allow me to more deeply engage with the backcountry experience with simpler gear, greater mindfulness and intentionality in choosing and using my campsite, and the feeling that I'm closer to the natural world rather than separated from it by opaque layers of nylon."

Is that to say I rah rah using a bivy all the time for all people(or just me) in all situations?...NO.

Although a stand alone WP bivy is useful in tight spots like on ledges when climbing as ScareBear says I disagree those are the only tight spots a BACKPACKER can employ a bivy in a small footprint to camp where no tenter could. Picking on SB again I also strongly disagree with his assertion that the wt saving of a bivy is a historical artifact.

MLD WP 3 L eVent stand alone bivy is currently 12 oz - total wt, their med size will fit most, no added bulk or wt, I have one of these bought in an earlier version that weighs in on my scales in LARGE size at 12.8 oz. Mine was bought before the FKT eVent 2L bivy was available.

MLD WP 2 L eVent stand alone bivy I have one of these it weighs 10.3 ozs, .2 oz under advertised spec wt, When I chose to use either of these bivies that's it - that's my entire shelter wt with NO ADDED ON WT OR BULK!

Realistically compare that to a ZP Soloplex at 15.5 oz which does not include carrying the wt of tent stakes, guylines, dedictated shelter poles(if that option is chosen), or trekking pole wt. Trekking pole wt is still wt that has to be carried no matter if it's conveniently omitted from the shelter wt category or not. That potentially adds to the bulk and wt one carries! And, if one isn't a regular or FT employer of trekking poles on every outing(umm. me) that seems shady to me and somewhat disingenuous to leave out pole wt which Zps's isn't really doing but leaving it up to the buyer to be aware of.

Where things get complicated in making tent and bivy comparisons is when WR bivy/tarp combos are included

[cmoulder]

Where things get complicated in making tent and bivy comparisons is when WR bivy/tarp combos are included

Problem is, it gets complicated very quickly when rain is factored in. For a longer trip the addition of a tarp is practically mandatory IMO if man-made or natural (cave, rock overhang) shelters are not an option. And man-made shelters are never an option for me... I can't stand 'em.

[Venchka]

biv·ou·ac
ˈbivo͞oˌak/
noun
1.
a temporary camp without tents or cover, used especially by soldiers or mountaineers.
verb
1.
stay in a temporary camp without cover.
"he'd bivouacked on the north side of the town"
About 36 minutes into a typical 36 hour North Carolina Rain Forest precipitation event will point out all of the flaws in using equipment designed for a temporary camp.
By most accounts you own a useable tent on the bleeding edge of minimal shelter weight.
Have a great hike.
Wayne

[cmoulder]

By most accounts you own a useable tent on the bleeding edge of minimal shelter weight.

Yes, I agree... if you've got a Solplex you can stop looking.

However, I would add that IMO a dictionary definition of 'bivouac' does not constrain the way we choose to use a bivy sack, whether with or without a tarp. There is definitely a learning curve and it certainly isn't for everyone. Folks in dry regions might bivy or cowboy camp 95% of the time and carry a small tarp that gets little use.

Here in the East, if I have time I almost always pitch the tarp as well because I have experienced rain at night when none was in the forecast.

[CalebJ]

biv·ou·ac
ˈbivo͞oˌak/
noun
1.
a temporary camp without tents or cover, used especially by soldiers or mountaineers.
verb
1.
stay in a temporary camp without cover.
"he'd bivouacked on the north side of the town"
About 36 minutes into a typical 36 hour North Carolina Rain Forest precipitation event will point out all of the flaws in using equipment designed for a temporary camp.
By most accounts you own a useable tent on the bleeding edge of minimal shelter weight.
Have a great hike.
Wayne

Are you suggesting that waterproof bivy sacks (or WR with a tarp) aren't capable of being adequate shelters from the rain? If so, I can assure you that nearly every night I've spent in the woods for the last 18 years contradicts that.

[Dogwood]

Are you suggesting that waterproof bivy sacks (or WR with a tarp) aren't capable of being adequate shelters from the rain? If so, I can assure you that nearly every night I've spent in the woods for the last 18 years contradicts that.

I have to agree with Caleb. My experiences tell me different. Am I saying would I use a stand alone WP bivy in a tropical rain forest or during wet seasons in British Columbia or during wet season as I've been sectioning the PNWT...no? But rain isn't the deciding factor. It's the quality of rain - type, frequency, heavy fronts, long duration, daily, nightly, etc rains. And, it's in how one amends their shelter through some simply CS selections. Again, more deeply consider what Ryan Jordan said, "camping in a bivy sack seems to allow me to more deeply engage with the backcountry experience with simpler gear, greater mindfulness and intentionality in choosing and using my campsite, and the feeling that I'm closer to the natural world rather than separated from it by opaque layers of nylon." What does he mean by that? For one, he meant choosing a thick grove of evergreens with lower hanging thick branches such as firs, pines, Rhodos, hemlock etc one can get under to reduce the impact of heavy rain. The low hanging branches maybe 5-7 ft off the ground allows a line to hold up a bivy hood. Under such scenarios just off trail 100 ft above it with a kick arse view noting which way the rain driven wind was coming up a ridge I've been able to sleep comfortably dry all night in a WP bivy MANY TIMES with no one knowing I was there. Sometimes, the rain just below a ridge line on one side is 1/2 the amount as on the wind driven side. A bluff or large car house sized boulder can be used the same. It's taking a hint from Nature. It's learning from Nature. It's what deer do. And they tend to travel very SUL, very unencumbered, don't ya think? These are the things Ryan was referring.

[Venchka]

Good for both of you. Based on totally unscientific, lifelong observations, Y'all are a small minority of campers.
Wayne


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[CalebJ]

True, we're definitely in the minority.

[cmoulder]

I like being in the minority.

There is a distinct joy in traveling light that folks who choose to remain shackled to conventional thinking will never know.

The metaphor that always comes to my mind that that of the long-caged bird that doesn't realize it can fly to freedom when the door is opened.

[BuckeyeBill]

I always thought that bivouac meant propping your self up against a tree with a poncho on if bad weather was in the forecast. If it was clear skies, then just a small blanket would be used. It was used a lot during the civil war so the solders could could get moving fast if necessary.

[Dogwood]

Ahh, the unscientific reply. My agnostic brother throws that at me too... every time he disagrees with me...as if labeling something unscientific(as determined by his approach to science) implies a lack of logic not based in fact.

Look at my conclusions, wts, and comparisons of the two MLD bivies against the ZP Soloplex. Where's the basis for saying they are "totally unscientific?"