ATC Says Trail Magic is Bad for the Trail

[soilman]

Exactly! If you don't like the social aspect of the A. T. or JMT or PCT go hike somewhere else, there are plenty of trails and you can have a different experience on every one of them. Just because some ppl don't want TM doesn't mean that those who do shouldn't be allowed to enjoy it. As the very annoyingly over used saying (but true one) goes, Hike Your Own Hike ppl! And stop judging everyone else's that don't do it the way you do! Sorry, I'm just sick to death of judgy, negative ppl that are always pissed off about everything!

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I hiked 1300 miles of the AT in 1976 and never encountered a hiker feed. I did experience some true trail magic. My 1976 AT experience was totally different than my 2010 AT thru hike experience. Why should I avoid hiking the AT? Why can't the people who want to do these hiker feeds hike other trails? I see a disconnect between seeking a wilderness experience coupled with a party atmosphere.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I hiked 1300 miles of the AT in 1976 and never encountered a hiker feed. I did experience some true trail magic. My 1976 AT experience was totally different than my 2010 AT thru hike experience. Why should I avoid hiking the AT? Why can't the people who want to do these hiker feeds hike other trails? I see a disconnect between seeking a wilderness experience coupled with a party atmosphere.

This.

Thank you for putting it so succinctly.

[soilman]

I just can't imagine thru's banging away on the internet in order to schedule their hike to coincide with feeds in such a number as to cause or effect any "bubble". Or banging away on the internet once their hike starts in order to time their hike to hit the feeds. But, maybe it is a real "thing" and is the reason for "bubbles" or their size/length. Interesting theory....
....

Believe it, it happens. Word gets out about a hiker feed/party/etc and hikers down the trail rearrange their hike to attend. I can think of several occasions where people attempting a thru hike either slowed down or increased their mileage in order to attend a hiker feed. There was birthday party along the BRP that was attended by close to 100, a church sponsored dinner at the hostel in DWG where hikers stayed an extra day or two in order to attend, fourth of July party in NY.

[Rabit]

I hiked 1300 miles of the AT in 1976 and never encountered a hiker feed. I did experience some true trail magic. My 1976 AT experience was totally different than my 2010 AT thru hike experience. Why should I avoid hiking the AT? Why can't the people who want to do these hiker feeds hike other trails? I see a disconnect between seeking a wilderness experience coupled with a party atmosphere.

Why should "they" have to hike other trails? The A. T. is known world wide for its social aspect so why should "they" have to hike other trails so you can have it the way YOU like it? You like to have a pure, wilderness experience and good for you but you're not going to to get that on the A. T., that's just not how that trail is. But there are MANY that are. If you're unhappy with the way the A. T. is choose one of these many that will make YOU happy.

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[soilman]

Why should "they" have to hike other trails? The A. T. is known world wide for its social aspect so why should "they" have to hike other trails so you can have it the way YOU like it? You like to have a pure, wilderness experience and good for you but you're not going to to get that on the A. T., that's just not how that trail is. But there are MANY that are. If you're unhappy with the way the A. T. is choose one of these many that will make YOU happy.

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No I am unhappy with the way the AT has become. It doesn't have to be this way. It was not like this years ago. This is a recent development and can be minimized.

[MuddyWaters]

No I am unhappy with the way the AT has become. It doesn't have to be this way. It was not like this years ago. This is a recent development and can be minimized.

I wish it were so
I think its a lost cause
Killed by popularity
Being closely followed by other trails as well

[tdoczi]

Believe it, it happens. Word gets out about a hiker feed/party/etc and hikers down the trail rearrange their hike to attend. I can think of several occasions where people attempting a thru hike either slowed down or increased their mileage in order to attend a hiker feed. There was birthday party along the BRP that was attended by close to 100, a church sponsored dinner at the hostel in DWG where hikers stayed an extra day or two in order to attend, fourth of July party in NY.

not a hiker feed per se, but perhaps the best example of the behavior youre speaking of is trail days.

everyone drops everything one way or another and makes sure theyre in damascus. well not the few smart ones and/or those who dont care.

i spent a night in a shelter in VA during this past trail days with 2 thrus who decided to skip it. all of their friends werent around because they had all figured out a way to go. they were actually sort of surprised to see each toher and exchanged mutual "i thought you went to trails days..." with each other.

[Rabit]

No I am unhappy with the way the AT has become. It doesn't have to be this way. It was not like this years ago. This is a recent development and can be minimized.

My point is, no one has the right and I personally find it ridiculous when ppl try to force changes because of their own wants and desires. If I personally don't like the way a place is I don't go there. I don't pitch a fit trying to get it changed just so it suits ME. I wish ppl would stop trying to make ppl look bad because they enjoy a different experience. Either go when it's quiet and there is no bubble, which is what my husband and I do and for the record we have never experienced or even seen a hiker feed when we're out there, or don't go at all. You've thru hiked it twice, you've had your experiences, let others have theirs.

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[kestral]

Two of us plan to do some trail magic Saturday. We will likely carry a pair of loppers, a saw, couple of swing blades and maybe a fire rake or shovel.

Thank you!

[kestral]

How many of us remember when TM was two elderly people with a five gallon cooler of some type of juice, or 2-3 big thermos's of coffee and a Snickers Candy Bar? You used your own cup and only took 1 Snickers while you took a break and talked to the folks. When you were done, you thanked the folks and walked away happy with a sugar buzz.

I think I met them, nice folks

[ldsailor]

with all due respect i think its worth considering whether or not what you describe above, in spite of the level of attendance and type of attendance, is similar enough to a hiker feed that holding those events while simultaneously bemoaning hiker feeds is sending a mixed message.

The article I referenced in the original post states that hiker feeds, if they are to take place, should be held in trail towns. Harper's Ferry is definitely a trail town far enough away from the trail to not impact the trail. Whether the ATC throws a hiker feed or not ("hiker feed" being defined variously by hikers and forum members) should not be a point of contention. It follows the ATC's guidance as described in the article.

[Lone Wolf]

This is a recent development and can be minimized.

unfortunately it won't get better. grafitti, carving, filthy/trashed shelter areas will get worse

[tdoczi]

The article I referenced in the original post states that hiker feeds, if they are to take place, should be held in trail towns. Harper's Ferry is definitely a trail town far enough away from the trail to not impact the trail. Whether the ATC throws a hiker feed or not ("hiker feed" being defined variously by hikers and forum members) should not be a point of contention. It follows the ATC's guidance as described in the article.

you know the saying monkey see, monkey do?

sometimes the monkeys dont realize that what they are doing is not the same things as the monkeys they are copying.

whether or not we think feeds thrown in towns, by the ATC or anyone else, are ok or not (i think theyre fine) its hard to argue, i think, that it is not where the people doing it at trail heads or out in the woods got the idea from.

i know it seems to be an incredibly unpopular way to look at the world in today's society, but sometimes we have to stop and think about how others in the future (near and distant) are going to misinterpret and build upon our actions in ways we wouldnt approve of.

[Dogwood]

Why should "they" have to hike other trails? The A. T. is known world wide for its social aspect so why should "they" have to hike other trails so you can have it the way YOU like it? You like to have a pure, wilderness experience and good for you but you're not going to to get that on the A. T., that's just not how that trail is. But there are MANY that are. If you're unhappy with the way the A. T. is choose one of these many that will make YOU happy.
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Noooo! They should stay where they are at. Stick to the AT and complain endlessly about how it is. Enough drama on the AT. Don't need the same folks complaining about things on other trails and how other trails don't measure up to the AT. Thankfully other trails aren't the AT.

[Dogwood]

Already happening

Its not that remote. Many places are a days hike from trailhead

A group calling them selves " john muir taco co" , complete with banner and logo recently fed hikers at Glen Pass

Last yr it happened other areas

Copy cats have a way of exploding....

Hmm, R U sure about that MW? Should the NPS gain knowledge of a hiker feed, no less promoting a company name, commercial logo, and banner being set up at Glen Pass in a NP(SEKI) I can see that quickly coming to a close. NPS has jurisdiction. The shenanigans and drama of the AT doesn't fly everywhere!


Very much disagree with you MW with the JMT not being that remote particularly compared to the AT Interstate Hwy.

[Dogwood]

The title of the thread is somewhat misleading.

ATC is not saying trail magic is bad. The original meaning of trail magic is something we celebrate.

We are trying to restore the original meaning of trail magic, which refers to small, spontaneous and unexpected acts of kindness; or serendipity (finding or being given that thing you lost and needed desperately and didn’t expect to find for days), or sometimes, experiences with nature that are so wonderful they take on a magical quality.

Yes, we are trying to discourage hiker feeds, especially in the backcountry, for the reasons a number of you have stated above. There is disagreement about whether they are appropriate at trailheads, where it’s not wild backcountry and there aren’t plants to be trampled.

There is little disagreement among those who take care of the A.T. and the land around it that unattended food is not good for the bigger picture of the Appalachian Trail, even if the vast majority of thru-hikers are enthralled with both the contents and the gesture of kindness behind it. Unattended food can have negative effects on animals, and even plants and soils if the “magic” causes people to congregate in large numbers or even small numbers in the same location over a period of time. And for those other than thru-hikers, even a well-maintained cooler can seem like an unwelcome human intrusion into the natural landscape.

I’m not sure, but it seems to me these feeds and coolers seem to eclipse the often quieter and more subtle, but in a way more extraordinary trail magic. When I hear hikers talking about soda, beer, and hamburgers being the pinnacle of their A.T. experience, then I feel they are really missing out.

While it could be debated whether there are enough or too many well-meaning people who provide feeds and leave coolers in the woods, it cannot be debated that the Appalachian Trail needs more volunteers to maintain and repair trails, privies, shelters and trailheads, clean trash and graffiti, perform boundary work, remove invasive species that are destroying our diverse and beautiful native plants and animals, provide education and outreach, develop policies on emerging threats, and advocate for the A.T.

If there are any trail angels reading this, I encourage you to join your local trail club and find out where your love for the Trail and hikers can be used to serve hikers and the Appalachian Trail in other more essential ways.

Check out the web page or Facebook page of your local trail club, or go to www.appalachiantrail.org/volunteer.

Of course Laurie but the drama queens have to have their debate. TEEJ very early on in the thread posted the ATC's opinion of TM. Shame you have to say(write) the same thing. It will still be ignored by some.

[Sparkeh]

Someone left a box of food for trail magic at West Carry Pond lean-to last summer. When we arrived the box was all trash and was torn open or left open and the trash blowing around the site. That was the most trashed site we saw from MA to ME. We picked up everything and tried to secure the trash box.

[TJ aka Teej]

ATC is currently reviewing this definition and it's possible there may be some modifications.

If you can improve on that, I'd be wicked impressed, Laurie.

[Malto]

Noooo! They should stay where they are at. Stick to the AT and complain endlessly about how it is. Enough drama on the AT. Don't need the same folks complaining about things on other trails and how other trails don't measure up to the AT. Thankfully other trails aren't the AT.

Unfortunately it looks like the same is happening on the PCT and based on facebook it looks like groupies are invading the CT as well.

[soilman]

My point is, no one has the right and I personally find it ridiculous when ppl try to force changes because of their own wants and desires. If I personally don't like the way a place is I don't go there. I don't pitch a fit trying to get it changed just so it suits ME. I wish ppl would stop trying to make ppl look bad because they enjoy a different experience. Either go when it's quiet and there is no bubble, which is what my husband and I do and for the record we have never experienced or even seen a hiker feed when we're out there, or don't go at all. You've thru hiked it twice, you've had your experiences, let others have theirs.

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I am not trying to force anything on anyone but I am not going to go away. I have been a life member of ATC for over 40 years and have been volunteering on ATC trail crews for over 25 years. I feel I have some investment in the AT and should and will do what I can to preserve and protect the AT. I find it ridiculous for someone to tell me to go hike another trail. When the folks posting videos on Youtube following the bubble glorifying trail parties and "safety meetings" start posting videos of building side hill with the Konnarock trail crew or helping the local trail maintainer clean out fire pits and haul out trash perhaps I will be open to a different kind of trail experience.