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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Cross free or die
    Why shouldn't a person be charged a fee for crossing?
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Do thru hikers get to cross first?
    Why? Cause they're special???? First come, first served.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Why shouldn't a person be charged a fee for crossing?
    It's the power plants that made this crossing unsafe. They should be the ones responsible to pay.


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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Why shouldn't a person be charged a fee for crossing?
    The reasoning was that MATC/ATC was concerned with hiker safety and therefore they did not want to give anyone a reason to bypass the canoe ride due to cost. Its not a theoretical hazard, I believe there have serious incidents in the past when hikers need to be rescued due to trying to cross without. The river is quite wide and its level and current can rise quickly enough that a hiker can be caught in the middle of the river without time to reach the other shore.

    I have heard from other folks that the crossing would get backed up at specific times of the day. The sporting camp up at the Pond offered (and may still offer) a hikers special breakfast early in the morning therefore folks who avail themselves of the deal all end up at the rivers edge at the same time which would cause a backup. Dependent on weather and current the trip can take longer sometimes and that to could cause a backup. When I crossed many years ago there was stiff wind downriver with small whitecaps. The attendant had to paddle in a very long arc upriver to account for current and wind.
    Last edited by peakbagger; 08-18-2017 at 10:49.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    It's the power plants that made this crossing unsafe. They should be the ones responsible to pay.





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    Well then why don't we just charge the power users? After all, if they didn't need electricity, the power plant wouldn't exist and then there wouldn't be releases. Oh wait, but what about just naturally occuring high water levels in a RIVER? Damn.
    https://tinyurl.com/MyFDresults

    A vigorous five-mile walk will do more good for an unhappy but otherwise healthy adult than all the medicine and psychology in the world. ~Paul Dudley White

  6. #66
    Registered User soilman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    So would a $10 charge.

    I think I paid $8 to an old man with a rowboat 34 years ago.
    Yeah, I paid $8 in 1976 plus $1.07 for the pay phone to call him. Then had to wait 2 1/2 hours. Everything is relative.
    More walking, less talking.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by PennyPincher View Post
    Well then why don't we just charge the power users? After all, if they didn't need electricity, the power plant wouldn't exist and then there wouldn't be releases. Oh wait, but what about just naturally occuring high water levels in a RIVER? Damn.
    The problem is the timed releases raise the water level rapidly.

    Ive never understood the requirement for timed releases, but seems that such an entity shouldnt be allowed to create a hazard on a public waterway. In other words, why isnt the discharge constant?

    then again, as I said above...people drown in the Sierra all the time. No one complains that crossing rivers isnt safe, cause it isnt always...duh.

    Personally, a suspension bridge one person wide would be preferable to a ferry. And work year-round. And the utility causing the problem should pay for it, and pay to maintain it.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 08-18-2017 at 17:52.

  8. #68
    Registered User Last Call's Avatar
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    Another solution: Grab a cheep "donut" float at the Wal-Marts to float your pack and swim / wade it across....
    Let's head for the roundhouse; they can't corner us there!

  9. #69
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Call View Post
    Another solution: Grab a cheep "donut" float at the Wal-Marts to float your pack and swim / wade it across....
    Unnecessary expense and weight. The pack displaces enough water to float itself and the hiker across the river.
    Wayne


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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    The problem is the timed releases raise the water level rapidly.

    Ive never understood the requirement for timed releases, but seems that such an entity shouldnt be allowed to create a hazard on a public waterway. In other words, why isnt the discharge constant?

    then again, as I said above...people drown in the Sierra all the time. No one complains that crossing rivers isnt safe, cause it isnt always...duh.

    Personally, a suspension bridge one person wide would be preferable to a ferry. And work year-round. And the utility causing the problem should pay for it, and pay to maintain it.
    Its not really a timed release, the three dams sell into the New England Power Grid. The owners sell into the grid as the power price increases during day time. Different weather conditions in southern New England will vary when they open and close the gates. There is very active white water rafting industry upstream and they depend on weekend recreational releases. Folks plan their trips around rec releases. There were limits on releases due to wildlife concerns but the Maine Governor intentionally instructed one of his flunkies to not file intervener paperwork and therefore for the next couple of decades the dam owners can ignore wildlife restrictions and legally do not need to do recreational releases. The best time to get a dam owner to make improvements and mitigate issues is during relicensing and I think these three dams just went through relicensing.

    Regarding the concept of floating and wading, when the dams give a good release anyone floating and wading could end up miles down the river possibly under a strainer.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Its not really a timed release, the three dams sell into the New England Power Grid. The owners sell into the grid as the power price increases during day time. Different weather conditions in southern New England will vary when they open and close the gates. There is very active white water rafting industry upstream and they depend on weekend recreational releases. Folks plan their trips around rec releases. There were limits on releases due to wildlife concerns but the Maine Governor intentionally instructed one of his flunkies to not file intervener paperwork and therefore for the next couple of decades the dam owners can ignore wildlife restrictions and legally do not need to do recreational releases. The best time to get a dam owner to make improvements and mitigate issues is during relicensing and I think these three dams just went through relicensing.

    Regarding the concept of floating and wading, when the dams give a good release anyone floating and wading could end up miles down the river possibly under a strainer.
    Very good info. thanks.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Personally, a suspension bridge one person wide would be preferable to a ferry. And work year-round. And the utility causing the problem should pay for it, and pay to maintain it.
    It would have to be a real bridge like the one over the James River to stand up to spring flooding and ice jams. A million dollar bridge.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    It would have to be a real bridge like the one over the James River to stand up to spring flooding and ice jams. A million dollar bridge.
    No doubt
    A million dollars isnt much money
    You cant build hardly anything for a million dollars

    But a suspension bridge is unnaffected by ice jams and flooding
    Its.....suspended

    Kennebec is maybe 250 ft wide. Its spannable for a pedestrian bridge. The woods creek bridge is maybe 150 ft id guess from memory. And its wood. In sierra, with epic snowdepths, raging flooding, etc. Of course, part of length is insuring its above the banks, river itself isnt that wide.
    DSC05360.jpg
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 08-18-2017 at 22:44.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    It would have to be a real bridge like the one over the James River to stand up to spring flooding and ice jams. A million dollar bridge.
    There are at least two such bridges on the Long Trail -- one over the Lamoille, and the newer one over the Winooski River. Both purpose-built for the trail.

  15. #75
    Registered User middle to middle's Avatar
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    Very funny !

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Kennebec is maybe 250 ft wide. Its spannable for a pedestrian bridge.
    Best I can figure with Google Earth is the river is more like 460 feet wide at the AT crossing. But that location doesn't look practical to locate a bridge at. It looks to me it would take a bridge more like 1000 feet long to span the river somewhere in that general area.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  17. #77

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    The Kennebec is somewhat infamous for ice jams in the spring. When there is an ice jam the river can flood just about anywhere so any bridge supports would need to be well off the side of the river outside the potential flood plain. The alternative approach used on the Connecticut river was to build massive bridge abutments that can hold up to ice jams. Sounded like a good idea but numerous bridges still ended up washing down the river over the years during floods.

    FYI the James River footbridge that folks use for comparison was built on large abutments built by a railroad. The bridge was long gone and the ATC convinced the railroad to donate the abutments and that donation along with other fundraising built the bridge on top of the abutments.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej View Post
    Very out of date advice.
    but still a fun and viable option

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    All you need

    Or...you can get a packraft that only weighs 1.5 lbs.

    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 08-20-2017 at 13:48.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    but still a fun and viable option
    Not at the point where the trail currently meets the river. Even when the water is lower it's over your head about 75 feet before the north bank. Back when people commonly forded the river the trail crossed farther upstream. As you hike toward Caratunk once you cross, you can see the old crossing area in the shallow section. Unfortunately, there's really no good way to hike to that point on the south side (unless the old roadbed on the south side goes that way).
    “He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates

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