Stretching your fuel longer

[Venchka]

I apologize for my tone.
However, I rarely boil water below 10,000'. 190-195 degrees from a rolling boil is maxed out for me. I'm testing now at 400'. I may need to adjust my process. I had good luck with Good To-Go and Mountain House meals and the JetBoil at 10,000' + in September. Pre-soaking not needed.
Wayne


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[DrL]

I'm headed out for a couple of nights tomorrow and will give the extended 12 minute method a try.

[Leo L.]

On my last hike I was a bit short on fuel (Esbit) and tried to save as much as possible.
It worked great for my DIY-dehydrated food, to just add medium-hot water and let it soak for longer time. Taste and bite was perfect.
It didn't work that great for my Treck'nEat dehydrated meal. This would definitely need some really hot water.
And tea (good British Black Tea) does only work with boiling water, there's no other way.
Tried to take my late-morning breakfast Capuccino with just medium-hot water. Again, half of the taste and most of the experience of sipping a hot coffee is gone, if the water isn't really hot.

[chiefduffy]

Also, heat water you have been carrying for a while, or in the morning, water you put in your sleeping bag with you. Ice cold spring water requires a lot more fuel.

[GoLight]

On my last hike I was a bit short on fuel (Esbit) and tried to save as much as possible.
It worked great for my DIY-dehydrated food, to just add medium-hot water and let it soak for longer time. Taste and bite was perfect.
It didn't work that great for my Treck'nEat dehydrated meal. This would definitely need some really hot water.
And tea (good British Black Tea) does only work with boiling water, there's no other way.
Tried to take my late-morning breakfast Capuccino with just medium-hot water. Again, half of the taste and most of the experience of sipping a hot coffee is gone, if the water isn't really hot.

We all have our preferences for water temperature and I agree that medium hot water is inadequate for full flavor in coffee or tea. Recommended tap water temperature is usually 120º and you cannot make coffee or tea with that. Yuck. Recommended for fragile tea is 180º and hardier teas such as your Britsh black is up to boiling. Recommended for coffee is 195º to 205º which is more than medium hot, it is a soft boil.
Ziploc bags have a softening point of 195º which means the bag begins to melt. If you are heating your food to boiling you probably want to use a metal pot.
Ziploc bags are approved for reheating foods in microwaves where the reheating temperature is about 165º.
I believe that water heated to 195º is friendlier around camp. I've accidentally scalded myself with both soft boil and hard boil and I recall the hard boil hurts more and the hurt lasts longer.

[Venchka]

What brand of thermometer should we be carrying? How much does it weigh?

Wayne


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[Dogwood]

I get Somen Noodles from a local Asian Market. They only need to boil for about 1 to 2 minutes and there ready to go. Kids love them enough that I buy them more for home use than for camping.

I too find Somen Buckwheat Noodles to cokk al dente faster than most pastas.

One should also pay attention to the type of pasta for the trail as some varieties like large rigatoni, linguine, fettuccine, larger farfalle(bow ties), conchiglie(shells), cavatelli, tortellini(non pre cooked), gemelli, etc take longer to cook compared to ancini pepe, ditalini, tiny orzo, angel hair, etc. Remember pasta isn't just an Italian staple. Asian noodles(pastas) are basically ready almost instantaneously in some cases.

[Dogwood]

And pastas and noodles can be prepared and eaten at tepid temps. One I like is sesame noodles made from Buckwheat(gluten free, good protein %) but made with almond or peanut butter, a packet or two of soy sauce(often free), a splash of sesame oil, sesame seeds(often free from bakeries or found in bulk bins) packet of red pepper flakes(often free), chopped fresh chives and if desired whatever meat. Chicken goes well as does reconstituted Badia brand shrimp. I'll sometimes slice up an avocado or add sprouts to it. Make enough for lunch or dinner that it carries over to the next no cook meal. Goes well with an Asian Pear and even some Goat Cheese.

[GoLight]

What brand of thermometer should we be carrying? How much does it weigh?

Wayne


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When the water starts moving and beading a little on the bottom of the pot is about 195º, when it starts surging to the top thats a soft boil at about 205º and when it starts rolling vigorously to the top is a hard boil at 212º. More or less and give or take a little bit

[Venchka]

The JetBoil isn't that subtle.
Shrimp eyes almost instantly.
Blink. Blink.
Rocking and rolling.
Ready.
The Pocket Rocket 2 will be auditioning soon.
Playing with stoves. Looking at maps.
The off-season.
Wayne


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[Sovi]

You can temp water from it's boiling point if you know your approximate altitude. At sea level water boils at 212 degrees F, for every 500' above the temp lowers by about 1 degree. At 10k' water boils at 193 degrees, just shy of a nice hot cuppa.

[MtDoraDave]

I have a question, or perhaps a challenge to those of you who have a digital scale and a curiosity about fuel savings...this question may have been asked and answered around here before, but I don't recall seeing it.

With the jetboil or even with the pocket rocket/ olicamp xts (or monoprice pure outdoor), I have tested the time it takes to boil water at full blast and at half throttle, and of course the water boils faster at full blast - but - I have no way to accurately weigh the fuel canister to see if cooking at less than full throttle is more efficient, less efficient, or just quieter.

Curious to see or hear the results.

[cmoulder]

I have done a bunch of stove testing and almost always stoves are more fuel efficient at ABOUT 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.

Why the "ABOUT"?? Because it is extremely subjective and hard to quantify or standardize — it is a "feel" thing that varies from person to person, usually judged by the flame and noise being produced, not an actual measure of fuel flow or BTUs being produced... how would the average person do this anyway??

The difference is MUCH more dramatic with non-HX pots, and even more so with tall, skinny pots vs short, wide pots.
I don't know, but perhaps Hikin' Jim has done some tests and has some numbers at https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/

[Venchka]

White gas stove: Coleman Apex Peak 1
Wide short covered aluminum pot
2 cups water & 2-3 ice cubes
8-9 minutes to boil
9 grams fuel used
Interpolate. Extrapolate. For BTU challenged fuels and stoves.
Wayne


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[Venchka]

White gas stove: Coleman Apex Peak 1
Wide short covered aluminum pot
2 cups water & 2-3 ice cubes
8-9 minutes to boil
9 grams fuel used
Interpolate. Extrapolate. For BTU challenged fuels and stoves.
Wayne


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PS:
The fuel bottle for the Peak 1 holds fuel for 10 +++ days. Thereby negating the erroneous disappearance of white gas.
Wayne


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[Venchka]

You can temp water from it's boiling point if you know your approximate altitude. At sea level water boils at 212 degrees F, for every 500' above the temp lowers by about 1 degree. At 10k' water boils at 193 degrees, just shy of a nice hot cuppa.

You got your OCD cranked up to max.
Way too much information.
On the other hand, Mountain House works well for me between 10k and 11.5k feet. Good To-Go meals are fine at 10k but a little crunchy above 11k, both at 20 minutes steeping per package instructions.
Wayne


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[Sovi]

You got your OCD cranked up to max.
Way too much information.
On the other hand, Mountain House works well for me between 10k and 11.5k feet. Good To-Go meals are fine at 10k but a little crunchy above 11k, both at 20 minutes steeping per package instructions.
Wayne

just some misc knowledge I had. Full of useless crap like that. Figured it was relevant to the preferred hot beverage temps convo.

[Venchka]

Grinning. I have information like that floating around in my brain.
I'm trying to distill it down to a manageable level.
Like maybe "Soak Good To-Go meals in a 2 step process and hope they stay hot." Better insulation too.
Bottom line: A 20 degree drop in the boiling point of water needs attention.
Cheers!
Wayne


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[cmoulder]

Bottom line: A 20 degree drop in the boiling point of water needs attention.

Boil longer or rehydrate longer in a good cozy... 192°F is still pretty darn hot. And/or re-heat as necessary.

Over time, and with experience, this is factored into your fuel requirements. But you know this!

[Dogwood]

I have done a bunch of stove testing and almost always stoves are more fuel efficient at ABOUT 1/2 to 2/3 throttle.


The difference is MUCH more dramatic with non-HX pots, and even more so with tall, skinny pots vs short, wide pots.
I don't know, but perhaps Hikin' Jim has done some tests and has some numbers at https://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/

Thanks for sharing this.