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  1. #21
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    Can you source this? I've been unable to find much other than a REDDIT thread where it was explained and debunked. Not doubting just want to know as I cook with alcohol.

    **Though I did find this for RNMP: https://pmags.com/psa-alcohol-and-es...banned-in-rmnp
    Would you care to share the link to the REDDIT thing? What was explained? What was debunked?
    While white gas may be extinct in the East Coast Green Tunnel, I can assure you that white gas, Coleman fuel, kerosene, etc. are alive and well west of the Mississippi River.
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  2. #22
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Thanks Paul. Clear as mud.
    (From Oct 2015: Non-Approved fires: Campfires utilizing solid fuel that do not distribute the flame with a wick., Alcohol ultralight stoves, Wood “twig ultralight stoves )

    Mechanical stoves and appliances fueled by bottled or liquid gas which allow the operator to control and extinguish the flame with a valve are permitted provided that such devices are approved by Underwriters Laboratory Inc”

    I am not the most intelligent person, but both seem pretty clear.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mags View Post
    (From Oct 2015: Non-Approved fires: Campfires utilizing solid fuel that do not distribute the flame with a wick., Alcohol ultralight stoves, Wood “twig ultralight stoves )

    Mechanical stoves and appliances fueled by bottled or liquid gas which allow the operator to control and extinguish the flame with a valve are permitted provided that such devices are approved by Underwriters Laboratory Inc”

    I am not the most intelligent person, but both seem pretty clear.
    BTW, it wasn't a Reddit link it was an old WB thread I mentioned earlier, my bad. Thanks for this info!

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Use your resources in Denver to assist with the resupplying. CT resupply is well documented.
    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Where and how does that help? Assuming that the Resources work weekdays, that only leaves weekends. Trying to get to the mountains on Friday afternoon and returning Sunday afternoon is a fate worse than death on a good day.
    Perhaps. Maybe. Use the resource for a head start in Leadville or Twin Lakes.
    Wayne


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    The answer to your question Venchka, if I'm understanding your reply, and to which I made my comment in context, is plainly evident in the OP's initial statement. The OP is aware "Plus I have a friend who lives in Denver which is handy for sorting mail drops, getting equipment delivered etc." Certainly nice to have a friend located not only in the U.S. but CO near one of the CT's termini. Don't you think?...for one traveling from the UK to hike the CT? Makes resupply and staging resupply and gear that much simpler than doing so all the way from a base in the UK.

  5. #25
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Ok. Sure. Sending out boxes of stuff. I get it.
    Wayne


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  6. #26
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    BTW, it wasn't a Reddit link it was an old WB thread I mentioned earlier, my bad. Thanks for this info!
    No worries. Yeah, local land agencies are getting touchy about using non-canister or white gas stoves during times of fire danger. Fortunately, canisters are very easy to get along the CT. The CT is more popular and even the small towns or stores stock accordingly.

    The other thing American land agencies are getting touchy about are mandating bear canisters. But that's another thread. Luckily, not mandatory anywhere on the CT (yet).
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  7. #27
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    I just gave away my unused Pocket Rocket to a friend since I didn't make out to do the CT this year. I plan to get another one, though, so I'll definitely carry one on the CT. Which is what I was planning anyway as I had some issues in cold weather with using a good bit of fuel to get the alcohol stove going. Canisters are, at the least, precise I suppose.

  8. #28
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Be responsible.
    Burn hydrocarbons.
    Drink alcohol.
    Wayne


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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mags View Post
    No worries. Yeah, local land agencies are getting touchy about using non-canister or white gas stoves during times of fire danger. *Fortunately, canisters are very easy to get along the CT.* The CT is more popular and even the small towns or stores stock accordingly. ...

    And your terse and well and frequently documented/re-documented CT End to Enders Guide explains where canisters would likely be found. Heck two 4 oz cans last a CT thru-hike for me during the fall mostly warming a bfast and dinner.

  10. #30

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    Hi,

    Thanks for all the replies. So briefly, I was already looking at the Msr as a stove which is good. I haven't hiked at altitude before (I think highest I've been is up Snowdon in wales) so until I get there I won't know how I'll cope. I plan to not aim for big mileage at the start rather than push myself too far. Ideally I'd have at least a week in Denver staying with my friend to get a little acclimatised and probably do one or two short day hikes to test how I cope in general with the conditions. In response to the points about travelling all that distance it's also to visit my friend and see a different part of the country (I've only ever been to Florida previously doing the whole Orlando thing). So if I don't enjoy the trail for any reason I still wouldn't see it as a wasted trip.

    I've so far read a couple of accounts of thru hiking the trail and started reading the free online guide.

  11. #31

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    Spending ta day or two in Denver will do absolutely nothing to acclimate you. I think that was a fable invented by travel agents to sell people visiting Colorado and another night in Denver on their trip.

    Just start hiking and go up a couple of thousand feet each day and you're fine. Starting in Denver eases you into it just fine actually starting in Durango can too if you're smart about where you spend your first few nights<

    <br>As long as you're not one of those people who have real problems with elevation. Those kind of people aren't very common but my wife is one. Even nine thousand feet gives her headaches for about 5 days
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-27-2017 at 19:28.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Spending ta day or two in Denver will do absolutely nothing to acclimate you. I think that was a fable invented by travel agents to sell people visiting Colorado and another night in Denver on their trip.

    Just start hiking and go up a couple of thousand feet each day and you're fine...
    Coming from a near sea level elev to 5200 ft Denver can assist acclimating. Starting at Waterton Canyon is another good approach to acclimatizing for flat landers. Again, savvy advice coming from Mag's CT End to Enders Guide:
    SOUTHWEST vs. NORTHEAST on The Colorado Trail

    Southwest / Durango Bound Starting from Denver eases a hiker into the higher elevations, starts off more gentle, more options to bail out if you need some RnR. You also get to end in the San Juans; a much more scenic ending than Waterton Canyon. Due to the elevation factor, this method is preferred for people from outside of Colorado. Durango has fewer transportation options to get back home vs. Denver.

    Northeast / Denver Bound: You do face some of the hardest terrain and higher elevation right away, end in the more subtle Waterton Canyon. End of trip will prove to be easy terrain wise. If you start late in the season, going
    Denver-bound extends the window of hiking by one or two weeks to early-mid October depending on that season’s weather conditions. Ending in Denver is also much easier logistically to get back home vs Durango.

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Coming from a near sea level elev to 5200 ft Denver can assist acclimating. Starting at Waterton Canyon is another good approach to acclimatizing for flat landers. Again, savvy advice coming from Mag's CT End to Enders Guide:
    .
    personal experience...having wife whose very altitude sensitive....never did a freaking thing for my wife. Been skiing in CO /NM dozens of times, spent a day in denver quite a few, sometimes no, never any difference. Shes sick for 4 days at least, headaches, throws up. Shes been "rescued" by ski patrol, come down on a litter, and given oxygen before...(at great expense I might add sent back to condo with oxygen tank and medications) at under 10,000 ft. We come from sea level...we drive mostly to give her more time to acclimate.

    My stepson...inherited same thing. First time in breck after a day in denver...walked up step to condo..threw up. Continued to throw up , ended up in clinic with IV fluids. Again...no benefit to denver. After several days at 9000ft...OK, gets used to it.


    My kids...like me...no problems


    I think if you can acclimate gradually, 7000, 8000 9000, it works.
    I think 5000 is way too low to actually be of any short term benefit. Its not even noticeable when hiking, running, etc. Your body has no need to adjust at 5000.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-27-2017 at 21:21.

  14. #34
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    There are several supplements, non prescription, that have been studied that increase acclimating to altitude. There's also a good body of general advice involving what to avoid and what to embrace to cut down on risking AMS.

  15. #35
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    Oxygen concentrations are lower at 5000 ft compared to sea level.

  16. #36
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    personal experience...having wife whose very altitude sensitive....never did a freaking thing for my wife. .
    Here's what Dr. Ben Honigman, has to say:

    25 to 30 percent of visitors heading to the mountains get acute mountain sickness. The risk is lower for trips to Denver, where only 8 to 10 percent visitors get the ailment.

    The Altitude Research Center suggests starting by taking a day at a modest altitude that’s between 5,000 and 6,000 feet, such as Denver. Honigman said people who stay a night in Denver reduce their chances of getting altitude sickness by anywhere from 25 to 50 percent. Spend two nights in Denver and chances are good travelers will not experience altitude sickness.

    (emphasis mine)

    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    ta day or two in Denver will do absolutely nothing to acclimate you
    A doctor who specializes in altitude sickness disagrees.



    Last edited by Mags; 09-27-2017 at 22:41.
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  17. #37
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Carry high. Sleep low. Simple. Works for normal folks. Even this fossil.
    Wayne


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  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mags View Post
    Please look up the word "outlier." Your example of two is trumped by the example of hundreds , if not more. And since we are giving anecdotal examples of two, my mother had a hard time at 5k ft at first. Another friend from New York absolutely must be acclimated in Denver for a few days. And even then, much like your wife, has issues higher than about 9k or so.

    But anecdotes are crap.

    Here's what Dr. Ben Honigman, has to say:

    25 to 30 percent of visitors heading to the mountains get acute mountain sickness. The risk is lower for trips to Denver, where only 8 to 10 percent visitors get the ailment.

    The Altitude Research Center suggests starting by taking a day at a modest altitude that’s between 5,000 and 6,000 feet, such as Denver. Honigman said people who stay a night in Denver reduce their chances of getting altitude sickness by anywhere from 25 to 50 percent. Spend two nights in Denver and chances are good travelers will not experience altitude sickness.

    (emphasis mine)



    The doctor who studies altitude sickness apparently disagrees.


    People who live in denver still get altitude sickness

    Why?

    Because at elevations under maybe 10-11000, it just depends more on person, than anything else.

    Ive never heard of 8-10% people getting AMS at 5000. It generally recognized to not occur till about 8000. Even my wife.....doesnt feel bad in Denver.


    To do a study, youd have to take people known to have issues, and expose them the same way , both with and without a night in denver. Never heard of one. I been doing it for 26 yrs though....

    I met one other wonan as bad as my wife, worse in fact. After having spent a night in town at Taos at 7000, she went to stay in ski valley at 9600. She was in clinic with my wife, she was being sent back down to town her symptoms were so severe. Even a night at 7000 had done nothing for her.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-27-2017 at 22:58.

  19. #39
    Getting out as much as I can..which is never enough. :) Mags's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Ive never heard of 8-10% people getting AMS at 5000. It generally recognized to not occur till about 8000. Even my wife.....doesnt feel bad in Denver.
    I'll take the board-certified doctor, who researches this for a living, over you....or your anecdotes.

    I live here, I can out anecdote you after all. Hell, I can out anecdote anyone in general because I come from a family of storytellers.

    But the board-certified physician and his research is still better than you, I, or our colorful anecdotes.

    To get back to the original poster, please spend a day or two with your friend in Denver. Take it easy on the craft beer. Hydrate. And enjoy the trail!
    Last edited by Mags; 09-27-2017 at 22:48.
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  20. #40

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    When I hiked the the CT i chatted with a few locals walking in Waterton canyon.

    Several asked me where I was from, yada yada, and "how I was going to acclimate", and were incredulous when I said I was just going to walk. I figured they should understand its gradual over a few days. After all, they live there.

    A couple of people seemed worried that this wouldnt work, which struck me as odd at the time.

    But as I thought about it, i realized some people there have heard the "common knowledge," repeated their whole lives, to believe they are specially acclimated by living at 5000, and everyone else cant handle moderate altitude without some sort of extended process.

    Do they realize Maybe 70%(wag) of tourons go straight to places where they sleep at 9000-9900 ft el , and have no significant issues? Maybe restless sleep? The dryness is way worse than altitude. I recall a few times in winter waking up after sleeping mouth open, so dry it hurt to try to swallow. And Ive worked in desert places with single digit humidity without that happening. The low pressure combined with ultra low humidity, is a killer.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-27-2017 at 23:48.

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