Camino Frances - March

[Coffee]

I'm starting the Camino Frances around March 20 from Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port and wondering whether anyone has hiked the camino around that time of year and can provide feedback on the very first stage to Resconvalles. I very much would prefer to take the higher mountain route vs. the valley route that includes a lot of road walking but I'm finding it difficult to get good information on the likelihood that this will be possible in late March. I am reading that the mountain route is discouraged in "winter" but from what I see of the temperature averages in the area by late March, it is firmly early Spring by then. I am unsure if the mountains hold snow pack or if the main issue is just potentially poor weather on the day of hiking the first stage. Obviously no one can know what the specific weather will be, but I'm curious about general conditions that time of year.

Also, I'm trying to figure out how many days are most likely for my hiking style and pace. I have the Brierly book which divides the Camino Frances into 33 stages but that implies daily mileage of well under 15 mpd. On the PCT in southern CA, I regularly hiked 25 mile days and I typically hike 20 mile days in the High Sierra. I thru hiked the Colorado Trail in 28 days including four zeros if I recall correctly - so 24 hiking days or ~21 mpd. I can't see myself hiking only 15 mpd on the Camino which looks to be much easier walking. I've penciled in 20 mpd on average which puts me at Santiago with 24 days of hiking (I don't plan many if any zeros). Then I would have a few days to hike to Finnistere and/or Muxia. I have a return flight from Europe that gives me 42 days total in Europe so I have a lot of extra time built in if I finish early and was even thinking of hiking part of the Portuguese camino (in reverse) from Santiago if time permits.

Finally, from everything I've read, carrying camping gear is more trouble than its worth and I figure the hostels won't be full in late March - mid April - is this a good assumption? I'll be traveling super light if that's the case. I have some experience with this style of hiking from my trip to the Alps in 2015 except I think the Camino is a lot easier walking than anything in the Alps.

Thanks for any feedback.

[Spirit Walker]

Are you sure the hostels will be open? If weather is usually bad that time of year, they may not be. I know Europe in late winter can be very wet and gray. Fog/cloud may be an issue, keeping you indoors if visibility is zero.

One consideration regarding mileage is there is more to the Camino than just a hike. A big part of the experience is visiting the towns and enjoying the history and beauty of churches, etc. There is also the whole social aspect, meeting people from all over the world. That may mean more time spent eating and drinking and less time walking.

[Dogwood]

I'd also like to hear some in the know replies, preferably personal experiences.

[KCNC]

I'd love information as well. We visited Santiago de Compostela a few years ago and loved the town. Walking the Camino is an excuse to go back in a few years. I've begun poking around and making notes, but really place significant value on primary sources.

[Coffee]

From my research, while it is true that some hostels are closed in the winter, some remain open along with pensions and other accommodations so having a place to stay isn't an issue especially because fewer people are on the camino at that time. From what I can tell from my reading, for about a week (before Easter on April 1), I may end up having to spend a bit more if the municipal hostels aren't open and I have to resort to pensiones instead - I'm ok with that.

It's true that the Camino is more than just a hike. While I'm open to the spiritual aspects of the trip (or I'd be picking another walk), I'm more interested in the combination of a nice walk and seeing the sights of Spain - the architecture and the history of the place. Since my return flight is 43 days after my arrival and I'm heading straight to the Camino, I'm open to giving myself more time if I feel called to do so. If I do a fast walk, I can continue on another camino after reaching Santiago, or I can get on a train for Madrid, Lisbon, Barcelona, etc and play conventional tourist for a week or so. I'm hoping to keep a relatively unstructured schedule.

[Starchild]

From this past summer there is sign indicating a closed section of the mountain route during the winter (the highest point of the trail in this section). If so it may dictate the lower route. You will get the info in St Jean.

Both routes involve a good deal of roadwalks, the entire camino requires a good deal of road walks. While you can go faster on roads, in reality it is very hard on the feet, far more then trails, that will slow you down over the distances. The Camino is far different then the trails of the AT.

Tenting is possible but not needed. For that matter sleeping bags were not needed though some (cheaper) places rent blankets.

If you can leave 40 days, this way you don't have to be rushed.

It is possible to bike it if you want and rentals are averrable and reasonable, the Messata section is perfect for that. Flat and boring hiking for 8 days, you can bike it in 4 (3 if you push it)

Most important, hike to Finisterra - it is much more enjoyable then the Camino Frances, continue to Moxia. Finisterra is a highlight, and could be a great ending but Moxia has lots to offer also and it would be a shame to miss. Plus the bus ride from Moxia is much shorter then from Finisterra.

[biloute]

I didn’t find it too much road walking. It’s true that it’s not as natural as the route through France, but the walking in Spain is mostly dirt, rather than actual pavement. As for hostels, I would think you’d be able to find someplace to stay. There isn’t that much distance between towns over in Europe, all things considered. So if one town didn’t happen to have lodging then the next one might. I used the Miam Miam Dodo book to find places to stay, as it pretty much lists ALL the places along the route, rather than just a few.

As for the mountain pass, I walked in summer and didn’t have a problem. But I would have if I’d left Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port a day later, as there were mudslides that closed the route. That may be a concern for you in the spring even if there isn’t snow, because I imagine it’s likely there would be more rain due to springtime.

And if you’re accustomed to walking 15 mi. days in mountains, you may even be able to go farther than 20 mi. per day in Spain. The trail is generally very easy walking. I’d be careful of doing any camino in reverse, though, as it probably won’t be waymarked. People generally only go TOWARD Santiago, not away from it. You should also check out the Godesalco site if you haven’t already. It’s good for estimating stages as it gives the number and type of lodging available in each town (though not specific places) and you can download elevation profiles and GPS if you like using one. http://www.godesalco.com/plan

For more specific questions/answers, you might check out the Camino de Santiago forums. TONS of useful information there, and most likely several people who have walked the route at the same time of year that you plan to. https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/

[Coffee]

Thanks for those links - I'll definitely check out the camino forums!

My general approach for this trip is more of a cultural experience than a wilderness experience. I'm not very religious but I am into history. I'm already making a list of the historical sites I want to visit along the way. I suspect that it is true that this could mandate less mileage per day vs a wilderness hike. On wilderness hikes, I love the scenery but I get bored sitting in camp or taking long breaks so I just hike and hike ... With towns of historical importance all over the place, I'm unlikely to be bored on this trip even with lower miles.

On hiking Caminos in reverse, that's a good point... I could always take a bus to Porto or Lisbon and walk north I suppose... Starchild, I guess hiking toward Finnistre and Muxia is common even though it is going away from Santigo? Seems like a common add on trip.

[StubbleJumper]

Are your travel arrangements already made and have you booked time off from work yet?

If not, why don't you consider hiking the GR10 through the French Pyrenees, the GR11 through the Spanish Pyrenees, or do what I did and take the High Pyrenees Route which takes you from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea over some of the highest trails? I wouldn't recommend starting any of those trails before late June or early July. They would all have snowed in stretches during April, especially the HRP.

If a hike is what you want, then those trails would be better than the Camino. If a religious pilgrimage is your objective, then the Camino is unique. For me, I find all long hikes to be spiritual without being religious, but I respect the notion that someone might desire to follow a pilgrim's route.

In my case, when I hiked the HRP, I flew into Bilbao, Spain and flew back out from Barcelona. Both of those cities are rich in history and art. San Sebastian is just a few miles north of Bilbao and it has amazing beaches for those who like that sort of thing.

Another random observation that i would share is that Spain is considerably less expensive than France. I always preferred to take my zero days in Spain because lodgings, food and beer were all very noticeably cheaper.

I speak only a few dozen words in Spanish, and I got by with little trouble. On occasion, I ended up drinking a large beer when I wanted a small, or vice versa, but overall it's an easy and safe place to travel.

[biloute]

I guess hiking toward Finnistre and Muxia is common even though it is going away from Santigo? Seems like a common add on trip.

They’re kind of their own pilgrimage in a way. If you get there and just want to visit, you could always take a bus tour. That’s what I did, but I was running out of time and wouldn’t have been able to make the walk in time.

[BrianLe]

I agree with Starchild on a couple of comments above ... "You will get the info in St Jean." Taking the Route Napoleon vs. Valcarlos isn't a huge "need to know way in advance" thing, unless you're looking to do easy mileage to start out and thus want to reserve a place. If you do take the high route, there is an albergue along the way somewhere if I recall correctly, before Roncesvalles, and at least in more popular times (i.e., much of the year these days) you need to book it in advance.

Starchild also said "Most important, hike to Finisterra - it is much more enjoyable then the Camino Frances, continue to Moxia."
Yes. That. Based on a friend planning trips that I've jumped on to, I've ended up hiking the Camino Frances twice, and just finished the Camino Portuguese last month. The Portuguese way also ends in Santiago, and even though my hiking friend and I had already hiked to Finisterre and Muxia on our previous trip, we opted to hike it again, albeit reversing the triangle part from the split. Galicia is great, and this time we didn't even have any rain (in fact, no rain at all, period, until we were finished hiking this trip).

I think that if you're up for the weather, and recognizing that your very first day (if hiking west) will likely be your worst day due to the Pyrenees, March might be a fine time to go. If you grope around on the web you might be able to find relatively current stats on how many pilgrims hike each month, I think Brierley's guidebook gives some clue. Probably all synthesized from the Camino office in Santiago that keeps stats (and those are findable online too). Certainly there will be issues at that time of year; for examle, a lot of albergues don't have clothes dryers available; with more limited and colder and perhaps wetter daylight hours can you dry your clothing? Dunno, wasn't an issue in October, might be on occasion in March. Certainly the issue of "which Albergues are known to be open in the range of how far I want to walk today". But I bet that the people that you meet along the way will be that much more interesting, hardy and intrepid (and/or occasionally perhaps naive and stupidly unprepared) folks. When the camino crowds get too much the social environment can get to be less friendly, even the sort of cold indifference you find in your average large city. I doubt you'll see a lot of that in March.

Best of luck, y buen camino!

[Starchild]

...Starchild, I guess hiking toward Finnistre and Muxia is common even though it is going away from Santigo? Seems like a common add on trip.

Yes it is common, however far less common then the last 100 KM into Santiago. You will see the numbers way down once you leave Santiago. As said it is it's own pilgrimage, and really the only route(s) that head officially away from Santiago. You can also get a certificate of completion in Santiago, Moxia and Finesterra. BTW It seems like you could qualify for all 3 if you start in Santiago, then hike the triangle back to Santiago.

Further note, though you are off season, during prime season the numbers of pilgrims in the last 100km is so many it is hilarious (you only have to do the last 100 km to complete the complstella - aka be officially recognized by the church) There are also busses that take people to collect stamps over several days.

[imscotty]

Thanks for those links - I'll definitely check out the camino forums!
On hiking Caminos in reverse, that's a good point... I could always take a bus to Porto or Lisbon and walk north I suppose... Starchild, I guess hiking toward Finnistre and Muxia is common even though it is going away from Santigo? Seems like a common add on trip.

If I arrived at Santiago de Compostela and had a few days left, I would use the extra time to hike to the 'End of the World' (Camino Finisterre). That should add a nice 3-4 days to your journey.

[Coffee]

Are your travel arrangements already made and have you booked time off from work yet?
If not, why don't you consider hiking the GR10 through the French Pyrenees, the GR11 through the Spanish Pyrenees, or do what I did and take the High Pyrenees Route which takes you from the Atlantic Ocean to the Mediterranean Sea over some of the highest trails? I wouldn't recommend starting any of those trails before late June or early July. They would all have snowed in stretches during April, especially the HRP.

Due to my schedule this coming year, I have an opportunity to do something in the early Spring and late Summer - about three months in total I can travel in 2018 but unfortunately not all at the same time. My early spring choice was a debate between the Camino and the Arizona Trail, but I opted for the Camino primarily because I have always felt like I wanted to do the AZT in the fall (southbound) rather than northbound, plus my start date might have been pushing things a bit for the sky islands in the southern part of the state (snow). Knowing that the Camino is definitely on my bucket list, I figured why not do it now - I'm also at a point where I'm open to the spiritual element (although I have few expectations for that).

I definitely didn't want to pick the Camino for my late Summer trip (way too crowded) and so I'm planning to continue my northbound progress on the PCT from Tuolumne to Ashland starting around the third week of August and probably finishing by October 1.

I've hiked a bit in Europe, mainly in the Alps, and definitely want to explore the GR routes more someday. But probably have to do that in summer through the Pyrenees due to snow as you point out.

Lots of good feedback on this thread - thanks. I'm going to go against my instinct and avoid "overplanning" this trip - the time of year, abundance of hostels and close sequencing of towns should make it possible to obtain lodging as I go along. My only goal for my 43 day trip is the Camino so I can go slow if I want, or if I go fast at the end I can do the conventional tourist vacation in a major city (probably Madrid).

[BrianLe]

"... if I go fast at the end I can do the conventional tourist vacation in a major city (probably Madrid)."

If you think you might ever get back to Spain, you might consider Bilbao instead. In Spain, all roads seem to lead to Madrid, so it's certainly an easy option. I hiked the Camino Frances twice; the first time I flew in and back out of Bilbao, took a combination of buses and trains to get to St. Jean, and rented a car one-way with my wife to get back at the end, seeing other bits of northern Spain en route back. The other time I flew in-and-out of Paris, just because the flight ended up being cheaper that way. Train from Paris to St. Jean not complicated, as it's all in the French train system. Flew back from Santiago, but probably had to route through Madrid to get there.

Okay, I'm rambling. My point is that if you think you'll be back to Spain, it seems to me that every time I go to Spain it's almost hard NOT to end up flying via Madrid, inevitably with a little time before or after to look round the city. There's certainly stuff worth seeing, and when you run out of stuff in Madrid proper you can go to the bus station and do a cheap day-trip to multiple places; my favorite of those would probably be El Escorial.

So really, Madrid would indeed be a fine choice. Assuming a round trip flight to somewhere in Europe to start, you have to optimize somewhat for either easier transport to St. Jean to start OR easier transport back to your airport of choice at the end. If you fly round trip to/from Madrid, it's the latter, as it's easy to take a cheap flight from Santiago to Madrid at the end. I don't know the best approach to getting from Madrid to St. Jean, but I'm sure that someone has mapped it out. And hopefully you know that there are multiple web sites that help you plan this most popular of trails, such as http://www.americanpilgrims.org/

If you do go via Madrid, btw, you can buy a 10-trip ticket for the Metro when you get to the airport and keep it to use at the end --- though when I did that this time for some reason (I recall well as it was just last month ...) it didn't work at the end (expired?). And note that taking the metro to either of the airport stops you have to also buy a special sort of surcharge ticket for that. But otherwise, a whole lot cheaper and easier than a taxi or waiting for a shuttle IMO.

[Coffee]

Thanks for the tips on Madrid. I'm actually flying into Paris and also leaving from Paris due to the cost of airfare (I got an amazingly cheap airfare - just over $400 round trip). Paris to St Jean looks really straight forward. I haven't mapped out how I'll get back to Paris yet but it looks like there are lots of flights within Europe on discount carriers so I can probably arrange that a week or so before my return, I hope.

[BrianLe]

Yup, should be able to get a cheap flight from Santiago back to Paris.
Note that there is more than one train station in Paris; I found it handy to book a relatively cheap hotel room close to the one that you use to go to St. Jean (I forget the details now, but easy to look up).