Diversity in nature-oriented activities

[Pondjumpr]

White people are definitely the majority in every National Park I have been to

If by "white" you mean Asian, I agree.

I have been in the outdoors most of my life. It is indeed rare to see a black family camping or hiking. As I think about it, I never remember camping beside or near a black family or even Asian, African, etc. I have tons of white friends and family that I have tried to get into camping or hiking and they thinks it is crazy. Sometimes I think I am crazy to leave my warm, climate controlled king size bed and sleep on a thin pad on the ground under a thin sheet of nylon in freezing temperatures. I still do it and I love it. The reference to spending $500 on a tarp to pretend we are homeless is fitting. Just enjoy the outdoors if you want and invite others to experience it. Don't worry about those who don't have a desire to experience it, regardless of their skin color.

[colorado_rob]

It is strange and curious why such a dearth of African Americans in a lot of the outdoor recreations, but as far as Asians go, in the western USA national parks, I would say there are nearly as many of them as whites. Some parks the Asians seem to have a plurality.

Go to the grand canyon or Yosemite and see for yourself.

And in Colorado where we have a 40 percent Hispanic population, I am seeing more and more of these folks out there.

[TexasBob]

Oh BS. First, it's condescending (at best) to expect different people from different cultures to like what you like, even if you wrap it in a self-loathing blanket of perceived oppression.

That said, ever been to Shenandoah NP on a Sunday? You'll think you're in India driving down skyline drive. They aren't on the backcountry trails, but most of them are in big groups with family, including the elderly. What the hell is wrong with that? Maybe there's something to be learned about family from this, whereas there are plenty of long distance hikers trying to escape from theirs....

Yes I have been to SNP on Sundays, how many black people did you see? Go to any public park on a holiday in Northern Virginia and the majority of people are Hispanic families. What the article is about I thought is why so few black people go to national parks and that is something I have always wondered about. I have been to at least 11 national parks from the west coast to the east coast and rarely saw black people. I am not saying I agree with everything in the article but some of the points made like the one I quoted helped me understand why black people don't go to national parks that is all I was saying. I am not a "SJW" or a "snowflake". I am just trying to figure out why things are the way they are. Is there something wrong with that?

[Deadeye]

My wife insisted on going on a hike with me, so I took her on a nice day hike. Granted, it was a little more strenuous than I remembered, but it was a pretty straightforward 2-3 mile climb with some steep sections near the top. She was red-faced, sweaty, panting; all the things I would call fun.

When we sat down for lunch, she asked "so what do you get out of this... 'cause it sure ain't working for me."

It ain't for everybody.

[Vanhalo]

Timely article.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/12/health...ies/index.html

I demand more white bears.

[SWODaddy]

Yes I have been to SNP on Sundays, how many black people did you see? Go to any public park on a holiday in Northern Virginia and the majority of people are Hispanic families. What the article is about I thought is why so few black people go to national parks and that is something I have always wondered about. I have been to at least 11 national parks from the west coast to the east coast and rarely saw black people. I am not saying I agree with everything in the article but some of the points made like the one I quoted helped me understand why black people don't go to national parks that is all I was saying. I am not a "SJW" or a "snowflake". I am just trying to figure out why things are the way they are. Is there something wrong with that?

You said whites are the majority in every national park. That's not true.

As for the rest, you should spend less time worrying about why other people don't like the same things you like. Just my humble opinion.

[Siestita]

“Just yesterday I led a hike for some kids associated with our church. Eighteen people hiked, including 9 whites, a black family of 5, 2 Hispanics, and 2 biracials. What a sight we must have been to those who are used to seeing only white faces in the woods. …Back to yesterday's hike. Among us was a black man. He is father to some teenagers, so he must be mid-30s at least. Our little 2-mile hike was his VERY FIRST HIKE, ever. Among the whites were two adolescent girls who last year touched a waterfall for the FIRST TIME EVER. Wow! I can't wait to introduce them to more outdoor adventures.” Illabelle, post #12

Illabelle - Your post is inspirational. Thank you for going out of your way to get people out in the woods who haven’t been there before!

My father was an enthusiastic outdoor educator and I, like many other posters here have enjoyed backpacking during most of my adult life. I am white, but oppose the idea that people like me should be made to feel guilty because fewer Blacks and Latinos visit National Parks or hike in the woods. But, I’ve had some experiences that may be pertinent to this thread. Before recently retiring from teaching for thirty years at a historically Black university, I had the privilege of becoming well acquainted with hundreds of African-American students and many Black professionals, including faculty colleagues, university administrators, and state government professionals. So, the issue that this thread raises interests me.

When the National Park Service began studying this issue years ago one thing that they learned is that members of different ethnic groups do not all take vacations in the same way. That insight parallels SWODaddy’s observation from post #70:

“That said, ever been to Shenandoah NP on a Sunday? You'll think you're in India driving down skyline drive. They aren't on the backcountry trails, but most of them are in big groups with family, including the elderly. What the hell is wrong with that? Maybe there's something to be learned about family from this, whereas there are plenty of long distance hikers trying to escape from theirs...”

Friends of mine who are African-American professionals tend to devote vacation travel to reaching family get-togethers rather than going to National Parks. I don’t find anything wrong with that. Of more concern, I think, is the fear that some Black Americans have of interacting with rural whites, especially those living in the south or in Appalachia. I’ll discuss that in my next post.

[Siestita]

I like this quote from Coffee’s post #34:

“BTW, the nicest people in America are consistently found in small towns in the South and Appalachia. I sometimes wonder about the stuff I read about stereotypes in newspapers and magazines written and read by people who probably hardly know the places they speak of from first-hand experience.”

The Daniel Boone National Forest/Sheltowee Trace has long been my personal playground and I also enjoy hiking in the Southern Appalachians. So, over the years I’ve received much warm hospitality in trail towns. And, I suspect that would probably have also have been the case had I been Black. But, I have had some African-American friends, fellow college professors, who have feared to venture into Appalachia.

A decade ago my university, located in central Kentucky, asked a professor who is Black, originally from a mid-western city, to drive into eastern Kentucky’s ‘mountains’ to conduct recruitment there at Pikeville Community College. Fearing that he could not safely make that journey as a Black man, my colleague insisted that he be accompanied to Pikeville by a white colleague. And, even after the trip had been amiably completed by the two of them my African-American friend’s concerns about Appalachia remained. Fears can be difficult to dispel.

Once during the 1980s I led a group of graduate students on a canoe trip on Elkhorn Creek, just a few miles from our campus. Knowing that as we wound through the countryside we would encounter some rapids I arranged for several of our more experienced paddlers, who happened to be white and male , to be paired with newbies, who happened to be Black and female. One of Black students became anxious and expressed concern about that arrangement. “What if we meet rednecks along the river? Will they attack us if we have mixed race couples in the boats?” I reassured her as best I could and then we proceeded down the river without mishap.

I find negative media portrayals of rural southerners and mountain people troubling. Those stereotypes may resonate even more with African-Americans than they do with others, however, perhaps reinforcing Blacks' collective memories of past tragedies.

While I was growing up in southwestern Ohio during the 1950s there were no Blacks living in several small rural towns located just a few miles from my home. One of those towns had a sign that said, “No Niggers Under the Sun”. It’s possible that no Blacks had ever lived in that community. There are many other mid-western and southern towns, however, that once has Black residents but no longer do because lynching and “racial cleansing” took place there a century ago. See:

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7772527

Could this history contribute to African-American reticence to experience the great outdoors? Cumberland Falls State Park is, in my opinion, Kentucky's greatest natural treasure. Corbin, located along I-75, is that State Park’s gateway town. But, racial cleansing infamously occurred in Corbin in 1919 and since then the town has had almost no Black residents. If you were a Black family would the prospect of lodging in Corbin so that you could go hiking at Cumberland Falls appeal to you? And, might you feel apprehensive about possibly encountering local people as you walked along the trails?

Perhaps America still has some racial healing to accomplish.

[RuthN]

“Just yesterday I led a hike for some kids associated with our church. Eighteen people hiked, including 9 whites, a black family of 5, 2 Hispanics, and 2 biracials. What a sight we must have been to those who are used to seeing only white faces in the woods. …Back to yesterday's hike. Among us was a black man. He is father to some teenagers, so he must be mid-30s at least. Our little 2-mile hike was his VERY FIRST HIKE, ever. Among the whites were two adolescent girls who last year touched a waterfall for the FIRST TIME EVER. Wow! I can't wait to introduce them to more outdoor adventures.” Illabelle, post #12

Illabelle - Your post is inspirational. Thank you for going out of your way to get people out in the woods who haven’t been there before!

My father was an enthusiastic outdoor educator and I, like many other posters here have enjoyed backpacking during most of my adult life. I am white, but oppose the idea that people like me should be made to feel guilty because fewer Blacks and Latinos visit National Parks or hike in the woods. But, I’ve had some experiences that may be pertinent to this thread. Before recently retiring from teaching for thirty years at a historically Black university, I had the privilege of becoming well acquainted hundreds of African-American students and many Black professionals, including faculty colleagues, university administrators, and state government professionals. So, the issue that this thread raises interests me.

When the National Park Service began studying this issue years ago one thing that they learned is that members of different ethnic groups do not all take vacations in the same way. That insight parallels SWODaddy’s observation from post #70:

“That said, ever been to Shenandoah NP on a Sunday? You'll think you're in India driving down skyline drive. They aren't on the backcountry trails, but most of them are in big groups with family, including the elderly. What the hell is wrong with that? Maybe there's something to be learned about family from this, whereas there are plenty of long distance hikers trying to escape from theirs...”

Friends of mine who are African-American professionals tend to devote vacation travel to reaching family get-togethers rather than going to National Parks. I don’t find anything wrong with that. Of more concern, I think, is the fear that some Black Americans have of interacting with rural whites, especially those living in the south or in Appalachia. I’ll discuss that in my next post.

Very interesting point about vacations and worth exploring further.

[LIhikers]

from the original article..."As the population of the United States continues to rapidly diversify, experts say, the face of the outdoor community has predominantly stayed the same: male, white and wealthy."

Wealthy? Really? I must have missed that memo as I'm not near wealthy. I wonder if enjoying the outdoors is gonna put me in a higher tax bracket.

[RuthN]

from the original article..."As the population of the United States continues to rapidly diversify, experts say, the face of the outdoor community has predominantly stayed the same: male, white and wealthy."

Wealthy? Really? I must have missed that memo as I'm not near wealthy. I wonder if enjoying the outdoors is gonna put me in a higher tax bracket.

Excellent point.

[Another Kevin]

My wife insisted on going on a hike with me, so I took her on a nice day hike. Granted, it was a little more strenuous than I remembered, but it was a pretty straightforward 2-3 mile climb with some steep sections near the top. She was red-faced, sweaty, panting; all the things I would call fun.

When we sat down for lunch, she asked "so what do you get out of this... 'cause it sure ain't working for me."

It ain't for everybody.

Your wife and mine need to get together. Mine got curious once, and I took her on a nice, really easy, hike with great views, fascinating fossils, a little cave to explore, a walk beneath a waterfall, ... Of the waterfall, she said, "I've seen drains that are more impressive," and in general, she was just trying to figure out what I got out of it. She never really did, but is willing, bless her, to let me go wandering if I don't insist on dragging her along.

I've heard the same sort of thing from non-hiking people that I've reached out to. (Alas, few PoC, I live in a bubble of privilege, and it's hard to escape from the inside as well as to enter from the outside.) One Latino colleague said, "My people had to go everywhere on foot. Now that I'm in America and can afford a minivan, why should I want to go back to that?"

Where I hike, yes, the crowd on the trail always seems to be lily white, except that there's often a busload of Koreans from New York City.

I try hard to be welcoming of any newbie, whether they have black skin or white skin or green and purple feathers. I'd try harder to get kids into it, except that from me that looks creepy. (I have only one daughter, and she's grown. She enjoys hiking, but right now is too busy getting on with the rest of her life.) I recognize that we have populations in this country that are underrepresented Out There, and can't help but think that they're losing something. But I have no idea how to tear down the barriers that I can't perceive. If someone living in New York City can afford $20 for train fare, they can be in the woods in an hour or so. (If they can't afford $20 for a weekend's entertainment, that's a much bigger social problem!)

I try very hard to avoid erecting barriers. (For instance, I don't hike anywhere that there is a permit system under which people are denied for lack of capacity. It feels too much as if I'm taking the place of someone more deserving.)

Yes, I'm the beneficiary of unearned privilege. Yes, I'm ashamed of it. Society insists on ascribing that privilege to me, and I don't really get the choice of refusing it. And I have no more idea how to fix it than you do. Coming back to me with, "you're the privileged one, it's your responsibility to figure it out!" may be justified, but will ultimately be futile. I've spent decades trying to figure it out, and I've not got very far.

[Slo-go'en]

Wealthy? Really? I must have missed that memo as I'm not near wealthy. I wonder if enjoying the outdoors is gonna put me in a higher tax bracket.

Yes wealthy. If you live on LI, I seriously doubt your anywhere near poor. While there are dirt baggers on the trail and the occasional homeless (but these are quickly run off), the vast majority are middle class income and up. You meet a lot of professionals on the AT - doctors, lawyers, engineers or their children. Retires still with money to burn.

[Another Kevin]

Yes wealthy. If you live on LI, I seriously doubt your anywhere near poor. While there are dirt baggers on the trail and the occasional homeless (but these are quickly run off), the vast majority are middle class income and up. You meet a lot of professionals on the AT - doctors, lawyers, engineers or their children. Retires still with money to burn.

It is a cheap activity mostly, except that it really rewards only if you have a lot of time to spend on it, time that only the poor (students, drifters, country folk) and rich have. Everyone else is busy earning a living. I think that therein lies the privilege (plus the fact that only those who are secure in having the comforts of life want to try going without a lot of them voluntarily).

Engineer - guilty as charged. Retiree - not yet, but I not only can count the years without taking my boots off, I can even leave one mitten on. Money to burn? Well, I don't think so, but hiking is indeed pretty cheap entertainment.

[El JP]

It is a cheap activity mostly, except that it really rewards only if you have a lot of time to spend on it, time that only the poor (students, drifters, country folk) and rich have. Everyone else is busy earning a living. I think that therein lies the privilege (plus the fact that only those who are secure in having the comforts of life want to try going without a lot of them voluntarily).

Engineer - guilty as charged. Retiree - not yet, but I not only can count the years without taking my boots off, I can even leave one mitten on. Money to burn? Well, I don't think so, but hiking is indeed pretty cheap entertainment.

Very nice post.

I'm giving up my job to do the AT and maybe i'll be homeless again but it's not like i haven't been in that situation before. I'll just deal with it as it comes. I'm not any kind of slacker but one thing i've found out over the years is that sometimes you just have to say "to hell with it" and cut loose. I've known a few bands that became effectively homeless everytime they went on tour. That's the price you pay if want to go out on the road on your own with zero label support.

As for this diversity thing i agree 100 percent with the Asian presence in the National Parks. We would get entire busloads of them in the different places i worked and though they weren't going to be on the tough trails, they were big on heading out and checking out the scenery. The one park i saw a sizable number of Black visitors was Shenandoah. You got DC, Richmond, and Baltimore close by and Skyline drive makes for a nice sightseeing trip if one doesn't really want to walk around much.

When i think about all this "diversity" thing, i'm thinking more about the more inner city types. Like imagine the characters from "The Wire" in the woods. That's what i'm picturing. Forget minority suburbanites, let's see just how these types will will warm to the prospect of wanting to go out in the sticks for an extended period. We could ponder the pros and cons till the cows come home, but getting political with this is stupid beyond belief.

[Bronk]

Several years ago I worked for a large corporation that gave away travel as part of its employee incentive program. I suggested to a co-worker that she use it as an opportunity to visit Europe. She said "Black people don't go to Europe. We go to Disneyworld and places like that." I asked her why and she didn't really seem to know why.

One time I stopped for lunch on one of the balds in the southern part of the AT and an Hispanic hiker stopped there as well, along with her family that had come to spend a day hiking with her on her thruhike. While we were eating her mother asked her if she had met any other Hispanic hikers on the trail. She said no, and discussion turned to the reason why and the consensus among them was that Hispanics probably spent so much time working in the fields as migrant workers that they didn't really see the outdoors as a leisure activity.

Here recently someone posted an article about a black woman who thruhiked and she talked about all of the perceived racism along the trail. What I got out of that article is that most of what she experienced as racism was really limits that she had placed upon herself. And I have to wonder if these differences and limitations are largely self imposed and are as a result of attitudes and beliefs that minority groups hold. Not trying to blame them or say anything is wrong with the way they think or believe, just offering an explanation. Maybe they just don't want to hike. Big difference between not wanting to do it and having barriers in place that discourage them from doing so.

[egilbe]

There is a video in that thread by Blair Underwood. It's hilarious...

[TX Aggie]

from the original article..."As the population of the United States continues to rapidly diversify, experts say, the face of the outdoor community has predominantly stayed the same: male, white and wealthy."

Wealthy? Really? I must have missed that memo as I'm not near wealthy. I wonder if enjoying the outdoors is gonna put me in a higher tax bracket.

Lol....wealthy.....pffft.

[Uncle Joe]

Google the author. She's an intern. Don't take this piece too seriously.

[Dogwood]

I admittedly didn't peruse every post but after identifying the problems what is each (white)person here doing positively to introduce or influence the impoverished(of all walks of life) or minorities to nature oriented activities?


I'll start by admitting I could do much more but:

1) Intentionally donate old or extra but not trashed outdoor gear to those in greater need than myself

2) Buy and donate new outdoor gear contributing in some small ways where able

3) Involve myself in outdoor community gardens in inner cities where participants are taught to grow their own food, often organically, and where their food comes from

4) Organize and lead volunteer hikes and nature walks.

5) Invite Newbie others to trail maintenance sessions and Gatherings