Deep winter bag

[Dogwood]

Your comment "taking a -20 when you only require a 0F" is why I made my previous points about going overkill. A 0F bag is the right tool for the job IF the job never changes. On Day 1 of a 24 day trip yes your 0F might work at night with 10F temps. But on Day 8 of the trip temps could go south and you really need the extra weight of more Geese . . . and the -20F bag. I consider overkill geese to be insurance on a long winter trip, accounting also for the slow loss of loft and humid winter conditions/condensation on a long trip.

Remember, we're talking "deep winter" here.

....if the situation never changes...because your trips are very similar, your kit/gear is very similar, your camping style has little diversity, your security blanket has to be expansive and familiar...That applies to you based on all the winter reports I've ever read from you Tipi. It's not a bad thing at all. You know yourself. What you're after. And, you seem to enjoy yourself while contributing immensely to others. Where I have issue is when you say to others, not knowing how they lay out their winter trips, their winter gear/kits, where and how they winter sleep/camp, their acceptable diversity and tolerance levels in each of these things and more, recommend across the board carrying a -20* bag when a 0* bag might be perfectly comfortable for them based on their situation.

[Dogwood]

I have to agree with Tipi here. I carry a 4 pound Winter bag because Winter is not the time to be "Stupid Light". What can be mildly uncomfortable in Summer is lethal in the Winter. The margin for error is so much smaller. I'll carry the extra pound of feathers.

Absolutely right, winter is not the time to go "stupid light." Do you assume Andrew Skurka on his solo Alaska-Yukon Traverse went stupid light on his sleep system? How about Justin "Trauma" Lichter and Shawn "Pepper" Forry on their first winter PCT thru-hike? How about Trauma on his Great Himalayan Trail thru? How about Cam "Swami" Honan on the winter hikes/segments he has completed? Do you think they went off half cocked? Do you assume they didn't get advised by some of the best in the winter outdoor world? Despite these hazardous treks do you think they all carried 4 lb sleeping bags on the entire length of their 1100-2000+ mile winter hikes? How about only at the coldest times? Do you think any of these vastly diversified experienced hikers go about telling others in a generalized fashion what they should carry in winter as far as a sleeping bag wt, winter bag temp rating... without FIRST knowing the context of the hike, the individual...? Do you think these folks have more diversified experience with backpacking in winter than most of us here?

[Dogwood]

So no one gets in a twist what I'm saying is that many times advise given is in context of the advisor's own situation and experiences that can actually be quite limited/undiversified which is especially problematic when the advisor stubbornly ignores that others may, and very often, do things differently, experience things differently, take on different winter trip styles,...

[egilbe]

We arent talking about other famous hikers. We are talking about the OP who came to this message board asking for advice. Its better to err on the side of caution than assume he has hiked across Alaska, or the Lake Superior trail in the Winter.

Being cautious.

[Dogwood]

We arent talking about other famous hikers. We are talking about the OP who came to this message board asking for advice. Its better to err on the side of caution than assume he has hiked across Alaska, or the Lake Superior trail in the Winter.

Being cautious.

I understand. That does not mean we can not learn from famous hikers, or any other hiker, in what they did based on what they experienced either. Then, we can relate it in context to what we each differently experience in our situations.

All those mentioned write trip reports that include considerations, gear lists, what they could have done or known better, and back round info, etc. They do that so others can possibly take something by what they share. I, for one, will take those considerations, gear lists, and experiences to heart just as I do Tipi's winter reports.

[sethd513]

And that’s why I post on here. Many good opinions, many with solid advice. I know where I’m at so what I take out of all these post affects me differently then the next guy. It’s good information for everyone reading though not just myself. Unfortunately I’ve never hiked out of New England as I don’t travel. Not saying that’s a bad thing. As of past and the foreseeable future my winter trips are spent in the white mountains.


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[Venchka]

The Section Hiker just sent a new email with a lengthy discussion of winter bags. It’s worth reading.
https://sectionhiker.com/winter-slee...expert-advice/
Wayne

[Leo L.]

Great reading.

I might add, that the most important piece of gear to help me surviving severe cold in the bag is a woolen hat or a balaclava, which I wear inside the hood of the bag, which I close down to a very tiny breathing hole just for the nose.
The exact way how all these items work together is very important to find out beforehand.
The hood of the bag needs to be wide and long enough to enclose your head and the hat just lose enough to be comfy, the drawstring needs to operate in a nice and symmetrical way so the tiny breathing hole doesn't apply uncomfortable pressure to your face, all stuff (woolen hat etc.) you'r wearing needs to be slippery enough to follow your movements without getting stuck in the hood, and many more details like that.

And, as others had pointed out, keep a bottle handy so you don't have to leave the bag for a night break. And try out the procedure beforehand, so not to wet the bag in seriously cold conditions on the mountain.

[sethd513]

Yea the possible -25 temps with -50 windchills are pushing me away from up north this weekend. My wife wants to go but she’ll be a block of ice in the morning and that’s really not good for anyone. It’s looking like this weekend coming up in mass should be -10 to -15 plus wind which would be a much fairer test of a -20 limit.

Good section hiker article. I don’t understand why there is no mention of vbl unless I missed it. They gave props to the pertex shell but I don’t really know how anyone can sleep in winter conditions without one. I use to and I was cold and my bag was frozen in the morning. Or maybe it’s just a given that you “should” have one on when in these conditions


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[Venchka]

Perhaps you should sign up for one of his winter trips.
At times like this I don’t miss my time in western MA!
Wayne

[Snowleopard]

There are decades old tables showing sleeping bag loft needed for different temperatures. I think these tables are still good on the assumption that the sleeping bag is well designed for the temperatures expected (sectionhiker's article talks about design features). I'm tempted to sell my -20F EMS bag, but as I age I might need it for sleeping inside my house on cold windy nights.

[Venchka]

There are decades old tables showing sleeping bag loft needed for different temperatures. I think these tables are still good on the assumption that the sleeping bag is well designed for the temperatures expected (sectionhiker's article talks about design features). I'm tempted to sell my -20F EMS bag, but as I age I might need it for sleeping inside my house on cold windy nights.

Finding loft figures these days is becoming harder and harder. Trusting the loft figures you do find is equally difficult. Real world individual testing works.
Wayne

[Tipi Walter]

Real world individual testing works.
Wayne

My point all along.

[BlackCloud]

I recommend anything made by these people:

http://www.westernmountaineering.com/

Their temp ratings are quite accurate; bags weigh nothing but feel great and they cost a fortune.