Campsites during "the season"

[jefals]

1) Campo to Lake Morena - 20 miles
2) Laguna CG to Rodriguez Spur Truck Tank - 20.9 miles
3) Rodriguez to Warner Springs - 40.6 miles
While you are right to say there aren't many carries more than 15 or 20 miles - there's only 3 - those 3 account for 82 out of the 109 miles in the section. And that 3rd one is serious.

There's more water sources than that. You guys keep restricting yourselves to the water report and apps that miss a few sources. They are off trail a bit, you might go a mile (or more) out of your way, but they are there. Expand your horizons. Look at topos, read the Wilderness Press guidebooks. Apps and water report are brainless and easy, but sometimes you have to engage that brain and do a bit of work.

The water report lists a lot more sources than what I've shown. Many off-trail. The ones I'm referring to are the ones that are flagged as most reliable. I'm not going into the desert and counting on anything other than a most reliable source for water. But that's just me. HYOH

[AllDownhillFromHere]

...Mile 137: Tule Spring
....

Tule Spring is a sewer, only drink from it if you're dying.

[lonehiker]

You are being a bit paranoid but you have that right as it is your hike. Keep in mind that you will get a "feel" for the water sources as you hike north. If the less than reliable sources have water early you may be able to rely more upon the less than reliable further up the trail. Talk to people hiking sobo and get updated water reports on your phone (or from local libraries as they normally have a current copy at the front desk) You are not hiking in a vacuum, there are plenty of resources available to you as you move north.

[Coffee]

Tule Spring is a sewer, only drink from it if you're dying.

Oh, theres much grosser water further up the trail ... Filter and you'll survive.

[jefals]

You are being a bit paranoid but you have that right as it is your hike. Keep in mind that you will get a "feel" for the water sources as you hike north. If the less than reliable sources have water early you may be able to rely more upon the less than reliable further up the trail. Talk to people hiking sobo and get updated water reports on your phone (or from local libraries as they normally have a current copy at the front desk) You are not hiking in a vacuum, there are plenty of resources available to you as you move north.

Sorry, lh, didn't mean to come across that way. I'm talking from a planning perspective, from my living room. I know I'll be able to get updates along the way. I really think I'm good with the water situation. I can easily carry 6.5. You know the old saying -- "hope for the best, prepare for the worst"? That's kinda my mindset when it comes to water out there.

[Coffee]

My longest carry was from mile 620 (Willow Springs) to Walker Pass at around mile 651, and I broke that up with a dry camp at Bird Spring Pass. It really wasn't too bad since I had little food weight at that time and was heading into town for resupply. In general, it is a GOOD thing to be very conservative and careful! I was pleasantly surprised by the number of water sources that were good vs. what I had assumed. It really is not that bad at all.

Here is the "well" at Willow Springs where I scooped about 6L of water:



DSC07039.jpg

[Wyoming]

I keep seeing things like this

"Scissors crossing at mile 77 - worst case you hitch to Julian, or to the campground a few miles the other direction"

implying that there is no water at Scissors Crossing.

THIS IS NOT ACCURATE guys as there IS water right at Scissors Crossing. Look at the water report and follow the directions.

When you get to Highway 78 you walk up San Felipe Rd 3/10 of a mile. There is an opening in the fence and you walk down to the creek. There is a stream flowing there. It is usually 3-5 feet across. Folks think there is no water because the water is not flowing under the bridge at 78, but this is a deep sand area and in the 3/10 of a mile to 78 the stream goes underground is all. There is always water there.

If you want on the hike back there is a TH on San Felipe Rd and you can take a side trail back to the PCT and not walk all the way back to 78 also.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Wyoming]

Before folks started the trail magic stuff of putting up water caches the biggest carry on the PCT was from Landers Camp at 609 to Walker Pass some 42 miles.

It was necessary to carry for the whole distance as the few intermediate possibilities could all be dry. I often think folks routinely underestimate the PCT today as folks do not hike it like the original hikers did. Start off sometime and don't ever fill up at the water caches and see what it is like. Getting to Kennedy is a whole different ball of wax - much harder. Trail magic makes no meaningful difference on the AT but it makes the PCT a lot easier.

Re the person who said they did not see a point in night hiking. You should learn to do this and be prepared for it as it is an essential desert hiking survival skill.

"The stay out of the desert if you can't stand the heat." is just nonsense.

The human has not yet been made who can handle the hottest desert conditions when carrying a pack in the hills all day in the direct sun. Sometimes it just makes sense to start late like 6-7 pm and hike all night till it warms up the next morning. If you have to do real long water carries in high daytime heat then switching your hiking to the night time can cut your water consumption by 50% - it is a no brainer.

When it is real hot in the lowlands near Hiker Town and along the aqueduct the vast majority of the thru hikers hike that section during the night. Looking back you can see a string of headlamps going for miles. When I was there last not one person left Hiker Town earlier than 5:30 pm.

If you were going to hike from Landers to Walker Pass like folks used to then hiking it during the night would be the easiest way.

[Mags]

IF you dry camp, your camping possibilities expand quite a bit. Bonus: Fewer people, insects, and critter concerns.

[Coffee]

Before folks started the trail magic stuff of putting up water caches the biggest carry on the PCT was from Landers Camp at 609 to Walker Pass some 42 miles.

Given the condition of Willow Springs and the kind of gross water there sometimes, it would probably be a good idea to leave Landers Camp with enough water for the 42 miles to Walker Pass. If resupplying at that point, food weight is going to be minimal making it possible to carry a large amount of water. As it was, I had current trail info that Willow Springs was flowing and opted to rely on that but that well didn't have much water and it was pretty gross water.

Bird Spring Pass (between Willow Spring and Walker Pass), a commonly relied on cache, had no water so my carry from Willow Springs to Walker Pass was around 31 miles. I think that I did this on 5.7 liters of water, having had dinner and cameled up at Willow Springs and then hiked on and then started before dawn the next day. Totally agree on the night hiking.

[Wyoming]

Being old I am a candy ass and take the water at the caches - being old is sad.

When I went through last time is was hot as hell. Across that stretch I consumed 12 liters of water and had to give 1 to two folks who ran completely out 10 miles from the next water. It was just turning dark when I realized they were out of water and after I gave it to them I made them get their headlamps out and hike through the night.

I was half way between Campo and Lake Morena on that trip and came across a guy who was completely out as well. I gave him 1 liter and told him when he ran out to just sit and wait for the next person who had extra. I talked to 2 other people who gave him water as well. Course he was carrying a 50 lb pack

[jefals]

My longest carry was from mile 620 (Willow Springs) to Walker Pass at around mile 651, and I broke that up with a dry camp at Bird Spring Pass. It really wasn't too bad since I had little food weight at that time and was heading into town for resupply. In general, it is a GOOD thing to be very conservative and careful! I was pleasantly surprised by the number of water sources that were good vs. what I had assumed. It really is not that bad at all.

Here is the "well" at Willow Springs where I scooped about 6L of water:



DSC07039.jpg

Good to know...thks!

[jefals]

I keep seeing things like this

"Scissors crossing at mile 77 - worst case you hitch to Julian, or to the campground a few miles the other direction"

implying that there is no water at Scissors Crossing.

THIS IS NOT ACCURATE guys as there IS water right at Scissors Crossing. Look at the water report and follow the directions.

When you get to Highway 78 you walk up San Felipe Rd 3/10 of a mile. There is an opening in the fence and you walk down to the creek. There is a stream flowing there. It is usually 3-5 feet across. Folks think there is no water because the water is not flowing under the bridge at 78, but this is a deep sand area and in the 3/10 of a mile to 78 the stream goes underground is all. There is always water there.

If you want on the hike back there is a TH on San Felipe Rd and you can take a side trail back to the PCT and not walk all the way back to 78 also.

Hope this helps a bit.

I knew about that. No way I'm not goin to pie-town tho! ?

[lonehiker]

Damn, I'm surprised I've made those sections without night hiking. To listen to you talk, and attempt to validate each other, I should be dead... Next I suppose you are going to tell me that I must hole-up for 2-3 hours during the hottest part of the day. Guess I've been doing that wrong as well!

A person could hike it like they used to, but why? If water is available why not take advantage of it. If it isn't, you simply deal with it. No matter what the situation is over each successive generation of hikers, people will be able to successfully hike the desert sections of the PCT. FWIW, the bit about "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the desert", was a bit of humor. I suppose my humor is a bit drier and more sophisticated than most are used to

As Mag's mentioned, and I have in numerous other threads, don't be afraid to dry camp. Not only can it give you more solitude, and its other advantages, it can also break up potential long water carries with a nice respite.

[jefals]

Re the person who said they did not see a point in night hiking. You should learn to do this and be prepared for it as it is an essential desert hiking survival skill.

If you're talking about me, I didn't say I don't see a point in it. I said I can't see good enough to do it. For me, a more essential survival skill is not being stupid enough to be walking on high narrow cliffs when I don't trust my vision. Another important skill, IMO: Know your limits and plan accordingly. Another good reason for this time of year. I won't have those scorching temperatures.

[jefals]

ok, night hiking the lowlands - that might be ok. I just don't wanna be night-hikin the ridge lines.

[Dogwood]

Lonehiker, I believe Wyoming wasn't so much implying a right or wrong. He was simply mentioning how to reduce water hauls by hiking when it's less hot - at night, early morn, and evening hrs. Adding to what Mags said this plays into greater CS possibilities, less fatigue, lower consumables hauls, potentially more MPD,...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Dogwood]

Good article by Drew Smith on Dry Camping. https://www.trailgroove.com/issue29.html?autoflip=107

Liked these excerpts:
"Camping by water is a choice, not a necessity. And often, it is not the best choice. Many of my most memorable campsites were nowhere near water…."

"The barriers to dry camping are mostly those of habit, and, perhaps, fear and anxiety. Desire is the antidote to habit., knowledge the antidote to fear."

"Dry camping is just another skill in the well rounded hiker's repertoire." Here here

[jefals]

Good article by Drew Smith on Dry Camping. https://www.trailgroove.com/issue29.html?autoflip=107

Liked these excerpts:
"Camping by water is a choice, not a necessity. And often, it is not the best choice. Many of my most memorable campsites were nowhere near water…."

"The barriers to dry camping are mostly those of habit, and, perhaps, fear and anxiety. Desire is the antidote to habit., knowledge the antidote to fear."

"Dry camping is just another skill in the well rounded hiker's repertoire." Here here

That is a good article. But does this really apply to the PCT desert (up to KM)? Again, I only did the 1st section, but there, "camping by water" meant, mostly, camping at Lake Morena CG, "camping" in a motel room in Julian, or camping at 3rd gate. 3rd gate camping isn't "camping by water" like Drew is talking about. The water there is all bottled!
I guess there were some other, natural sources to camp by also, but this was the "camping by water" that I recall. Most other nights were dry...

[jefals]

meant to ask, at the end of the last post, if it's similar up to KM... Reliable sources mainly at cgs, towns, etc...?