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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by kolokolo View Post
    Cats are not indigenous to North America, and can be considered an invasive species. They also eat native birds, reptiles, amphibians and many other small animals.
    the concept of invasive species is an interesting one. Think about it...in the beginning, there was nothing. As time passes plants and animals alike distribute. They say people migrated across a land bridge up in alaska.....So to what is now North America, we are invasive. On some new volcanic island rock outcropping in the pacific, some day grass and coconut trees will 'inavde'. I recently learned form a state park ranger in a florida state park (I think it was at Hillsborough River SP) that oaks were not originally in that area at all. Apparently they think squirrels brought them down from GA or someplace. Before that it was monolithic pine forests. So oaks are invasive.....
    anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe it's all just part of God's design in a way, that animals and plants distribute, mix, and mingle. It was only inevitable that lion fish would "invade" the reefs in FL. If man didn't do it, then a pair would come riding the ocean currents eventually.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to minimize impact or be responsible....it's just an interesting concept...invasive.

    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front lawn and battle that Chinese torpedo grass that's invading my front lawn......

  2. #62

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    I was down the trail from you at Russell Field the next night, Saturday, with a small group. The most experienced (and badass) backpacker with us brought along 5 plastic reusable mouse traps. He dabbed a little peanut butter on each and placed them along the walls on both the top and bottom platform. We hung our bags and food bags separately on nails just like you. We awoke to nothing chewed and 4 dead mice. The traps are a like a clamp after triggered so he was able to release the little dead things into the fire without touching them.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the concept of invasive species is an interesting one. Think about it...in the beginning, there was nothing. As time passes plants and animals alike distribute. They say people migrated across a land bridge up in alaska.....So to what is now North America, we are invasive. On some new volcanic island rock outcropping in the pacific, some day grass and coconut trees will 'inavde'. I recently learned form a state park ranger in a florida state park (I think it was at Hillsborough River SP) that oaks were not originally in that area at all. Apparently they think squirrels brought them down from GA or someplace. Before that it was monolithic pine forests. So oaks are invasive.....
    anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe it's all just part of God's design in a way, that animals and plants distribute, mix, and mingle. It was only inevitable that lion fish would "invade" the reefs in FL. If man didn't do it, then a pair would come riding the ocean currents eventually.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to minimize impact or be responsible....it's just an interesting concept...invasive.

    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front lawn and battle that Chinese torpedo grass that's invading my front lawn......
    Well said, thank you for that.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaknWet View Post
    Try this line of thought. If everyone that goes to the mountain brings home "1" rock how long before the mountain is gone?
    In Athens they used to drop marble trash chips on the Acropolis—more in tonnage every year than the entire site.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaknWet View Post
    Try this line of thought. If everyone that goes to the mountain brings home "1" rock how long before the mountain is gone?
    That should be done in PA.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the concept of invasive species is an interesting one. Think about it...in the beginning, there was nothing. As time passes plants and animals alike distribute. They say people migrated across a land bridge up in alaska.....So to what is now North America, we are invasive. On some new volcanic island rock outcropping in the pacific, some day grass and coconut trees will 'inavde'. I recently learned form a state park ranger in a florida state park (I think it was at Hillsborough River SP) that oaks were not originally in that area at all. Apparently they think squirrels brought them down from GA or someplace. Before that it was monolithic pine forests. So oaks are invasive.....
    anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe it's all just part of God's design in a way, that animals and plants distribute, mix, and mingle. It was only inevitable that lion fish would "invade" the reefs in FL. If man didn't do it, then a pair would come riding the ocean currents eventually.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to minimize impact or be responsible....it's just an interesting concept...invasive.

    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front lawn and battle that Chinese torpedo grass that's invading my front lawn......
    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front sidewalk and battle that snow that's invading my front sidewalk.......
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the concept of invasive species is an interesting one. Think about it...in the beginning, there was nothing. As time passes plants and animals alike distribute. They say people migrated across a land bridge up in alaska.....So to what is now North America, we are invasive. On some new volcanic island rock outcropping in the pacific, some day grass and coconut trees will 'inavde'. I recently learned form a state park ranger in a florida state park (I think it was at Hillsborough River SP) that oaks were not originally in that area at all. Apparently they think squirrels brought them down from GA or someplace. Before that it was monolithic pine forests. So oaks are invasive.....
    anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe it's all just part of God's design in a way, that animals and plants distribute, mix, and mingle. It was only inevitable that lion fish would "invade" the reefs in FL. If man didn't do it, then a pair would come riding the ocean currents eventually.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to minimize impact or be responsible....it's just an interesting concept...invasive.

    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front lawn and battle that Chinese torpedo grass that's invading my front lawn......
    An "invasive" species, it's one that comes in to a new area by itself without that part of nature that normally balances them out.

    Say there is an insect that eats sap from trees, There is likely something that balances them out like a bird that feeds on them to keep the insect from killing all the trees. When the insect naturally spreads to a new forest, the birds that feed on the insect spreads with them and keeps the insect from destroying the forest that has been invaded.

    But the insect becomes an invasive species when human activity transports the insect to a new forest while leaving the birds behind. The insects start feeding on the trees in the new forest with nothing to check their population. Then this invasive species destroys the forest it invaded.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    ha ha, then you'd end up with flea ridden cats peeing all over the place. Cat pee is the most vile substance known to man. Cat poop a close second.
    And there is only one good way I know of to deal with cat pee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIbkLjjlMV8

    (must watch)

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by madgoat View Post
    And there is only one good way I know of to deal with cat pee.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIbkLjjlMV8

    (must watch)
    Fatty Fatty 2x4.....lol

  10. #70
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    I agree with Starchild, however you must take one tax with each rock!

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    the concept of invasive species is an interesting one. Think about it...in the beginning, there was nothing. As time passes plants and animals alike distribute. They say people migrated across a land bridge up in alaska.....So to what is now North America, we are invasive. On some new volcanic island rock outcropping in the pacific, some day grass and coconut trees will 'inavde'. I recently learned form a state park ranger in a florida state park (I think it was at Hillsborough River SP) that oaks were not originally in that area at all. Apparently they think squirrels brought them down from GA or someplace. Before that it was monolithic pine forests. So oaks are invasive.....
    anyway, I'm starting to think that maybe it's all just part of God's design in a way, that animals and plants distribute, mix, and mingle. It was only inevitable that lion fish would "invade" the reefs in FL. If man didn't do it, then a pair would come riding the ocean currents eventually.

    I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to minimize impact or be responsible....it's just an interesting concept...invasive.

    Now pardon me, I need to head back out to my front lawn and battle that Chinese torpedo grass that's invading my front lawn......
    Um, lionfish are native to the indo-pacific. There is no way they would have gotten to coastal FL waters without human intervention. It certainly wasn't inevitable, it was the result of careless thinking by humans.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    An "invasive" species, it's one that comes in to a new area by itself without that part of nature that normally balances them out.

    Say there is an insect that eats sap from trees, There is likely something that balances them out like a bird that feeds on them to keep the insect from killing all the trees. When the insect naturally spreads to a new forest, the birds that feed on the insect spreads with them and keeps the insect from destroying the forest that has been invaded.

    But the insect becomes an invasive species when human activity transports the insect to a new forest while leaving the birds behind. The insects start feeding on the trees in the new forest with nothing to check their population. Then this invasive species destroys the forest it invaded.
    But doesn't the predator eventually occur or "invade" naturally when there is sufficient prey for it to "evolve"?

    So if I introduce aphids to an island in the pacific that has none, it's ok as long as I also introduce lady bugs?

  13. #73
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    Where's the predator for ticks? I've read several items claiming they're not native.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaknWet View Post
    Where's the predator for ticks? I've read several items claiming they're not native.
    You may have answered your own question there.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by blw2 View Post
    But doesn't the predator eventually occur or "invade" naturally when there is sufficient prey for it to "evolve"?

    So if I introduce aphids to an island in the pacific that has none, it's ok as long as I also introduce lady bugs?
    While no one would say that it's ok to introduce one species so long as you introduce it's predator...
    However, once a foreign invader has invaded... even in the National Park will sometimes try to control it by introducing it's predator.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    if a ranger comes by and sees one sleeping in the shelter during the day----they will still ask for a permit..........

    at least that has been my experience......
    Curious as to what happens if you are illegal and don't have a permit. Get a ticket?

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSPeabody View Post
    Curious as to what happens if you are illegal and don't have a permit. Get a ticket?
    I can find old WB posts where people mention tales of people caught illegally camping in GSMNP having to appear before a federal judge or magistrate and being fined $150 for 1st offense (that that's from 10 years ago).
    I know I've also heard stories of people being marched out of the back country by rangers... regardless of time of day.

  18. #78
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    Mice. O they made a nest in my stuff and had babies, which I discovered up the trail. I was undone. I do not think it is against the federal park regulations for us to fight back. The weapon is "sticky tape." Lots of it.On your pack, in your shoes, by your head,all over the shelter. But remember to take the used with you in your trash bag. Take the deceased well away from the camp area.
    Cake

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSPeabody View Post
    Curious as to what happens if you are illegal and don't have a permit. Get a ticket?



    i think it would depend more so on the circumstances of the matter...

    illegal camping? yeah.....thats going to be a ticket.....

    or asked to leave...

    for me----i didnt see what the "crime" was when i was asleep at 10 am in the shelter, with permit in my pocket, when the ranger came up...

    him and i had some harsh words right from the get go---as in "why'd you wake me up yelling and screaming?"

    i had permit so i was perfectly legal but we argue throughout the day (he came back and checked permits 3 other times that day-----it was leconte shelter)..........

    but at the end of the day, i was in the right and he was in the wrong.....


    as noted below---i have also heard of backpackers being led out by rangers at night for not having permits....

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    i think it would depend more so on the circumstances of the matter...
    Most definitely... Because depending upon the situation, your attitude and the ranger's attitude...

    If space is available and the ranger thinks the best course of action is to educate you on the park rules and regulations, the ranger can issue you a permit on the spot. You then pay for the permit, $4/night/person, when your trip is complete.

    But now that you know camping in GSMNP requires a permit that can be obtained from their web site, the question is moot.

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