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  1. #21

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    I switched to my iPhone GPS to reduce gadgets/weight, but my Garmin 60csx is much more battery efficient - screen and GPS running full time and the Garmin will last nearly 3 days on 2NiMh Eneloops. I keep the iPhone's radios and GPS shut down and only turn them on to spot check/confirm location a few times a day. Now carrying an Inreach sat com/tracker which will last a nearly a week running full time. No map on my Inreach, but there's one built to the app and all data pairs into the smartphone via Bluetooth when I periodically link them. I mostly rely on paper maps though, and only use the GPSs to confirm.

  2. #22
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    If you’re using an Apple phone and Apple computer, you can sync your routes over the cloud, no need to connect your phone to your computer.

    I imagine Droids can do the same thing using Dropbox.

    In fact, with Gia you can sync both your computer and phone automatically with your account, providing your subscription is up to date. I even bounce between my computer, iPad and iPhone without any issues.

    I’m still planning to get a Garmin InReach as a backup, just because I want the ability to communicate if needed with my wife when I don’t have cell coverage and for the emergency function. Otherwise, my phone has everything I need.

    The one caveat, as noted earlier, is in cold weather. Dedicated GPS units, especially with Lithium batteries, tend to function better in cold weather.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX Aggie View Post
    If you’re using an Apple phone and Apple computer, you can sync your routes over the cloud, no need to connect your phone to your computer.

    I imagine Droids can do the same thing using Dropbox.

    In fact, with Gia you can sync both your computer and phone automatically with your account, providing your subscription is up to date. I even bounce between my computer, iPad and iPhone without any issues.

    I’m still planning to get a Garmin InReach as a backup, just because I want the ability to communicate if needed with my wife when I don’t have cell coverage and for the emergency function. Otherwise, my phone has everything I need.

    The one caveat, as noted earlier, is in cold weather. Dedicated GPS units, especially with Lithium batteries, tend to function better in cold weather.
    I think you may be slightly misstating. I’m not aware of an app for the Mac that syncs directly with Gaia GPS on your iPhone. I think you mean you can upload tracks and waypoints to the cloud from your Mac and then download them to your phone and install in Gaia? I must point out that it’s a pain in the butt to do this because the iPhone does not let you access the file system on the phone. You have to go through that ridiculous “open with” routine that drives me nuts! Much easier on Android. In fact, Backcountry Navigator (only available on Android) is, IMHO, hands down better that Gaia.


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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Clifton View Post
    I think you may be slightly misstating. I’m not aware of an app for the Mac that syncs directly with Gaia GPS on your iPhone. I think you mean you can upload tracks and waypoints to the cloud from your Mac and then download them to your phone and install in Gaia? I must point out that it’s a pain in the butt to do this because the iPhone does not let you access the file system on the phone. You have to go through that ridiculous “open with” routine that drives me nuts! Much easier on Android. In fact, Backcountry Navigator (only available on Android) is, IMHO, hands down better that Gaia.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    iOS 11 has a new file structure that makes it much easier than before.

    As for Gaia itself, it’s as simple as clicking a “Sync Now”menu button.

  5. #25
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    I stand corrected: it syncs automatically when you open the app, or press Last Sync and it will sync on demand.


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by reppans View Post
    I switched to my iPhone GPS to reduce gadgets/weight, but my Garmin 60csx is much more battery efficient...
    That's what I was thinking... a cell phone can be as accurate as a consumer grade dedicated unit. But the dedicated unit is more likely to be geared towards doing that dedicated functionality with less battery usage.

    So if you expect to be frequently be using the unit or want to create a track log of an entire hike, the dedicated unit would server you better.

    I know when I hiked the JMT, the only thing I needed my phone gps for was to occasionally check my position to ensure I was still on the JMT, or to locate my self as it started getting late afternoon and start contemplating where I was relative to known camping locations.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hillwalker View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a GPS uses navigational satellite fixes to determine Lat and Lon whereas a cell phone uses cell tower fix information to determine that. If true, then a cell phone will not work as a navigational aide if no cell towers or too few are in range.
    Your cell phone has a GPS chip. Works even in airplane mode.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Hillwalker View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but a GPS uses navigational satellite fixes to determine Lat and Lon whereas a cell phone uses cell tower fix information to determine that. If true, then a cell phone will not work as a navigational aide if no cell towers or too few are in range.
    Just to add to the prior comments regarding this... one of the things a cell phone CAN do is us cell tower fix information to get a general position. But then it uses the GPS data to get a more precise location.

    One of the things that I've notice is that if you turn your phone on and you're not able to connect to a cell tower, it will take the phone longer to get its initial position with ONLY the GPS data. When I was out on the JMT out of cell tower range, when I turned my phone on to get a GPS location, it would take anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes. By comparison, when I'm near a cell tower, my cell phone can get a position almost instantly on power up.

  9. #29

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    Thank you for everyone reply. I just got a new GPS, Garmin Montana 680t. I'm still getting use to the need for GPS, cell phones. I know people do it but I'm always worry about not knowing where the water sources are located or other trail resources. The CDT Hiker Bok will be a help but I'm still old school. I just have to get use to newer technology. I don't like to carry multiple devices if they are use for duplication reasons.

    Wolf

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Consider yourself corrected.
    You are wrong.
    Wayne
    Not quite so fast there - he's not entirely wrong.

    Handheld GPS units use only GPS chips to download the almanac and determine the device's position. Modern cell phones use assisted GPS (A-GPS) which does rely on towers and cellular data to assist the GPS in locating the phone and in some cases, to send data from the GPS satellites to the phone to help it establish a coarse location quickly. A-GPS can also give you better location data if GPS reception is poor due to the current constellation position and health of individual satellites. So in many cases, A-GPS in cell phones can be better than stand-alone GPS devices - but only if the battery isn't dead.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Not quite so fast there - he's not entirely wrong.

    Handheld GPS units use only GPS chips to download the almanac and determine the device's position. Modern cell phones use assisted GPS (A-GPS) which does rely on towers and cellular data to assist the GPS in locating the phone and in some cases, to send data from the GPS satellites to the phone to help it establish a coarse location quickly. A-GPS can also give you better location data if GPS reception is poor due to the current constellation position and health of individual satellites. So in many cases, A-GPS in cell phones can be better than stand-alone GPS devices -

    but only if the battery isn't dead.
    Nice little description, thanks. But the spirit of the original comment is inaccurate: cell phones do FINE without any cell coverage, as far as GPS accuracy. Apparently sometimes better than some stand-alone GPS's when in cell coverage.

    As far as "the battery being dead", that seems to be a never-ending argument among the anti-cell-phone folks on here (not that you are one of them)... It really is simple, carry an external battery. Most do these days on long trails I would think, lots of choices out there, fairly light these days, a couple of phone charges for 5 ounces or so (like the Anker 6700 maH, or 10,000 mah, about 6 ounces). Keep you cell inairplane, navigate very, very accurately, and you're good to go for probably 10 days before recharging. I bet a modern cell with 4.7 ounce Anker battery is not much, if any heavier than a Garmin stand alone gps with its extra set of batteries.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf - 23000 View Post
    Thank you for everyone reply. I just got a new GPS, Garmin Montana 680t. I'm still getting use to the need for GPS, cell phones. I know people do it but I'm always worry about not knowing where the water sources are located or other trail resources. The CDT Hiker Bok will be a help but I'm still old school. I just have to get use to newer technology. I don't like to carry multiple devices if they are use for duplication reasons.

    Wolf
    Man, you’re gonna carry that brick on a CDT hike? I liked the Montana but thought it was just too big, opted for the Oregon instead.


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  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    Not quite so fast there - he's not entirely wrong.

    Handheld GPS units use only GPS chips to download the almanac and determine the device's position. Modern cell phones use assisted GPS (A-GPS) which does rely on towers and cellular data to assist the GPS in locating the phone and in some cases, to send data from the GPS satellites to the phone to help it establish a coarse location quickly. A-GPS can also give you better location data if GPS reception is poor due to the current constellation position and health of individual satellites. So in many cases, A-GPS in cell phones can be better than stand-alone GPS devices - but only if the battery isn't dead.
    Another thing, my Garmin Oregon also has GLONASS, the Russian equivalent to gps. I find the unit is much more accurate if I keep GLONASS on, although it reduces battery time just a bit.


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  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Clifton View Post
    Man, you’re gonna carry that brick on a CDT hike? I liked the Montana but thought it was just too big, opted for the Oregon instead.


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    Yea. It is about 2 oz heavier but has a larger screen that I need. Bad eyes.

    Wolf

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_rob View Post
    Nice little description, thanks. But the spirit of the original comment is inaccurate: cell phones do FINE without any cell coverage, as far as GPS accuracy. Apparently sometimes better than some stand-alone GPS's when in cell coverage.

    As far as "the battery being dead", that seems to be a never-ending argument among the anti-cell-phone folks on here (not that you are one of them)... It really is simple, carry an external battery. Most do these days on long trails I would think, lots of choices out there, fairly light these days, a couple of phone charges for 5 ounces or so (like the Anker 6700 maH, or 10,000 mah, about 6 ounces). Keep you cell inairplane, navigate very, very accurately, and you're good to go for probably 10 days before recharging. I bet a modern cell with 4.7 ounce Anker battery is not much, if any heavier than a Garmin stand alone gps with its extra set of batteries.
    They can do fine without towers, but they are A-GPS devices, and as such are designed to use secondary data sources when available - in this case the cellular network, but I understand your point. Even before smartphones, location services in cell phones were required to allow the network to know where to route a call, so the presence of navigation capabilities in cellular phones is really a nice added extra.

    The other week I was out hiking for the day and realized that I was carrying 4 GPS devices - iPhone, Garmin handheld, SPOT (to keep the family from complaining about solo trips...) and my Polar running watch. I still always carry a map and compass because I don't trust batteries (although having inadvertently brought 4 GPS units probably made that a non-issue...) I'm not a Luddite though - my maps come from Caltopo and are printed and a;lso loaded into Avenza Maps. To be honest, the Garmin gets left home on more and more trips. As you said, carrying a spare battery is easy enough and worth it given the larger displays on the phones and the utility of the apps like Guthook, Avenza Maps, GAIA GPS, etc. compared to the Garmin screens and their closed system of expensive, outdated cartography.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Clifton View Post
    Another thing, my Garmin Oregon also has GLONASS, the Russian equivalent to gps. I find the unit is much more accurate if I keep GLONASS on, although it reduces battery time just a bit.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    More recent iPhones use GPS, WLAN data, tower triangulation, and GLONASS to determine position. If you put it in airplane mode, it will use GPS and GLONASS. Not sure about Android as I haven't used one in a couple years, but it's probably similar.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    More recent iPhones use GPS, WLAN data, tower triangulation, and GLONASS to determine position. If you put it in airplane mode, it will use GPS and GLONASS. Not sure about Android as I haven't used one in a couple years, but it's probably similar.
    US sold iPhones have GLONASS? I hadn’t heard that before (I’m not doubting you, I don’t keep up on the specs, I just haven’t heard that before.)
    Do you know which version iPhone was the first to have this chipset?

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offshore View Post
    They can do fine without towers, but they are A-GPS devices, and as such are designed to use secondary data sources when available - in this case the cellular network, but I understand your point. Even before smartphones, location services in cell phones were required to allow the network to know where to route a call, so the presence of navigation capabilities in cellular phones is really a nice added extra.

    The other week I was out hiking for the day and realized that I was carrying 4 GPS devices - iPhone, Garmin handheld, SPOT (to keep the family from complaining about solo trips...) and my Polar running watch. I still always carry a map and compass because I don't trust batteries (although having inadvertently brought 4 GPS units probably made that a non-issue...) I'm not a Luddite though - my maps come from Caltopo and are printed and a;lso loaded into Avenza Maps. To be honest, the Garmin gets left home on more and more trips. As you said, carrying a spare battery is easy enough and worth it given the larger displays on the phones and the utility of the apps like Guthook, Avenza Maps, GAIA GPS, etc. compared to the Garmin screens and their closed system of expensive, outdated cartography.
    How do you like the SPOT? I’ve been debating between it and the InReach. I don’t really NEED a full featured device like the InReach, but when you add in the subscription and how you can pause Garmin’s subscription plus the ability to send custom messages, the Garmin seems like such a better value.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX Aggie View Post
    How do you like the SPOT? I’ve been debating between it and the InReach. I don’t really NEED a full featured device like the InReach, but when you add in the subscription and how you can pause Garmin’s subscription plus the ability to send custom messages, the Garmin seems like such a better value.
    I've used a first generation Spot device for years for blue water sailing as well as hiking. It is a basic, one function device. Send out your location. Yes, it has an SOS button and Help button for emergencies, but I have never used either. The subscription cost is $169 per year. I've also used an InReach device - most recently on a sailboat from the Chesapeake down to Antigua. It would seem that the messaging could be useful, but it wasn't used during the two week blue water sail.

    I guess if the InReach subscription was close to the Spot subscription and the InReach device was only about 25% more expensive, I would go with InReach; otherwise the Spot does the job. However, I've never done a cost analysis since I have no intention of getting rid of my Spot anytime soon. It will be with me when I hike this year.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    I've used a first generation Spot device for years for blue water sailing as well as hiking. It is a basic, one function device. Send out your location. Yes, it has an SOS button and Help button for emergencies, but I have never used either. The subscription cost is $169 per year. I've also used an InReach device - most recently on a sailboat from the Chesapeake down to Antigua. It would seem that the messaging could be useful, but it wasn't used during the two week blue water sail.

    I guess if the InReach subscription was close to the Spot subscription and the InReach device was only about 25% more expensive, I would go with InReach; otherwise the Spot does the job. However, I've never done a cost analysis since I have no intention of getting rid of my Spot anytime soon. It will be with me when I hike this year.
    Thanks for the feedback,
    Decisions, decisions.....

    Have you ever used the Spot to track your route and pull it back up at home?


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