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  1. #141
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    Giardia and neurovirus keep the permit system at bay!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    Giardia and neurovirus keep the permit system at bay!
    As Ive said before, wait until someone with a weak immune system dies from norovirus due to overcrowding conditions on the AT, encouraged by the ATC and shelters. Fostering a known yearly public health hazard, the press wont be kind, nor will the lawsuit.

    I suspect even an article on the yearly norovirus epidemics and spring AT overcrowding, privy conditions, etc , if picked up by AP press could even speed changes along. Public opinion of the ATC role is the the key.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-06-2018 at 15:14.

  3. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    As Ive said before, wait until someone with a weak immune system dies from norovirus due to overcrowding conditions on the AT, encouraged by the ATC and shelters. Fostering a known yearly public health hazard, the press wont be kind, nor will the lawsuit.

    I suspect even an article on the yearly norovirus epidemics and spring AT overcrowding, privy conditions, etc , if picked up by AP press could even speed changes along. Public opinion of the ATC role is the the key.
    perhaps bathroom attendants could be employed to hand out purell, after shave and mints.

  4. #144
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    I have Crohn's disease which is an autoimmune disorder of the digestive tract. You can surely bet I am going to be filtering any water I come across no matter what anyone else says or does.
    Blackheart

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    I suspect even an article on the yearly norovirus epidemics and spring AT overcrowding, privy conditions, etc , if picked up by AP press could even speed changes along. Public opinion of the ATC role is the the key.
    Since this thread is about filtering water, probably worth noting that many/most filers are ineffective protection against the Norovirus that MW mentions.

    Here is a fact sheet from the ATC on this:

    https://www.appalachiantrail.org/doc...r.pdf?sfvrsn=0

  6. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    As Ive said before, wait until someone with a weak immune system dies from norovirus due to overcrowding conditions on the AT, encouraged by the ATC and shelters. Fostering a known yearly public health hazard, the press wont be kind, nor will the lawsuit.

    I suspect even an article on the yearly norovirus epidemics and spring AT overcrowding, privy conditions, etc , if picked up by AP press could even speed changes along. Public opinion of the ATC role is the the key.
    How does the ATC encourage overcrowding on the AT?

  7. #147
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Since this thread is about filtering water, probably worth noting that many/most filers are ineffective protection against the Norovirus that MW mentions.

    Here is a fact sheet from the ATC on this:

    https://www.appalachiantrail.org/doc...r.pdf?sfvrsn=0
    Rickb, thanks for the info. It got me thinking how many times I drink filtered water that hasn't been boiled. I know that on my Pct and CDT thru-hikes I did drink a lot of water that was not boiled. Thankfully I didn't catch any critters. Now I am thinking because the AT is so close to populated areas, if just filtering is enough. I hate the taste of chemicals in my water and boiling water for drinking seems to change the taste as well. Of course I live in an area that gets their fresh water from under ground springs and is safe to drink straight from a hand pump. But still our government says it has to be chlorinated and fluoridated. I also like to drink my milk as it comes straight from the cow and the goat.
    Blackheart

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Since this thread is about filtering water, probably worth noting that many/most filers are ineffective protection against the Norovirus that MW mentions.

    Here is a fact sheet from the ATC on this:

    https://www.appalachiantrail.org/doc...r.pdf?sfvrsn=0
    The one thing that's more important than water filtration: WASH YOUR ******* HANDS. The single best defense against norovirus is soap and water. (It's seldom acquired from contaminated water, and very, very often from contaminated surfaces.)
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  9. #149
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    What Another Kevin says is the absolute truth. When out on the trail people tend to forget about hygiene and cleanliness. Another thing to remember is when sharing bagged items such as trail mix, don't allow someone else to reach into your bag. You don't know how hygienic they are and they can spread problems in just this simple way. All you need to do is dump some into their hands or into a container for them. along the same lines don't share cooked food from your pot directly with them. The human mouth contains enough to pass so many diseases and germs via a spoon/spork that can lay up you up for a few days or even require a visit to the local emergency room.

    I filter any water I get on the trail no matter how clean it looks or what others are telling me. When water is somewhat questionable, I filter it through a clean bandana then through my Sawyer filter and finally I use Aquamira to kill the unseen critters left over, unless the water is going to be boiled which will serve the same purpose.
    Blackheart

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    The one thing that's more important than water filtration: WASH YOUR ******* HANDS...)
    The best study comparing the two practices was coincidentally conducted among a large group of A.T. hikers. Medical risks of wilderness hiking. Dr. Christie Wilcox, who is a molecular biologist, summed up the study this way: “Those that practiced good hand-washing were about 50% less likely to have gotten sick, while those that drank untreated water were almost 8 times as likely to have had to pack it in because of diarrhea.”

  11. #151

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    Colter Drops the microphone and walks off stage!!

  12. #152
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    The best study comparing the two practices was coincidentally conducted among a large group of A.T. hikers. Medical risks of wilderness hiking.
    Here's an abstract of the article:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...02934302014948
    "The risk of diarrhea was greater among those who frequently drank untreated water from streams or ponds (odds ratio [OR] = 7.7; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 2.7 to 23; P <0.0001), whereas practicing “good hygiene” (defined as routine cleaning of cooking utensils and cleaning hands after bowel movements) was associated with a decreased risk (OR = 0.46; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.97; P =0.04)."
    The quote from Dr. Wilcox is a translation of this summary into English.

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colter View Post
    The best study comparing the two practices was coincidentally conducted among a large group of A.T. hikers. Medical risks of wilderness hiking. Dr. Christie Wilcox, who is a molecular biologist, summed up the study this way: “Those that practiced good hand-washing were about 50% less likely to have gotten sick, while those that drank untreated water were almost 8 times as likely to have had to pack it in because of diarrhea.”
    Huh?

    Did the good doctor read even read the study?

    That study did not compare good hand washing to drinking untreated water.

    Rather it compared people who drank untreated water with this who only reported: good hygiene” (defined as routine cleaning of cooking utensils and cleaning hands after bowel movements)

    It that ANYONE’s definition of good hand washing? Except Dr Wilcox, of course.

    Pro tip: If you want to stay healthy on the trail, do not limit your good hygiene to the low standard of routine cleaning of cooking utensils and “cleaning” your hands after a ****.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colter View Post
    The best study comparing the two practices . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Burrhead View Post
    Colter Drops the microphone and walks off stage!!
    Not quite! Yes, another peer reviewed science article about the issue in a reputable journal. Glad to see it. Good information. But, the best?! I don't think so! Unless there is nothing else out there of value, as self reporting surveys are about as questionable a scientific approach to an issue as you can get and are only taken seriously when there really is no other better controlled study option available.

    The best you can say from a study like that is there is justification for spending more time and resources for a controlled study given the strong results suggested from the survey.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  15. #155

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    Who needs a study. It’s just common sense to filter and/or treat your water, and practice good hygiene.

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBear View Post
    Here's an abstract of the article:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...02934302014948
    "The risk of diarrhea was greater among those who frequently drank untreated water from streams or ponds (odds ratio [OR] = 7.7; 95% confidence interval [CI]: 2.7 to 23; P <0.0001), whereas practicing “good hygiene” (defined as routine cleaning of cooking utensils and cleaning hands after bowel movements) was associated with a decreased risk (OR = 0.46; 95% CI: 0.22 to 0.97; P =0.04)."
    The quote from Dr. Wilcox is a translation of this summary into English.
    Here is the conclusion from the abstract: Conclusion - Diarrhea is the most common illness limiting long-distance hikers. Hikers should purify water routinely, avoiding using untreated surface water. The risk of gastrointestinal illness can also be reduced by maintaining personal hygiene practices and cleaning cookware.
    Basically - if you filter your water and wash your hands you are less likely to get diarrhea. The author's conclusion makes no direct statement about which practice (treating water or good hygiene) is more likely to prevent diarrhea.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Who needs a study. It’s just common sense to filter and/or treat your water, and practice good hygiene.
    They’re having fun arguing. Don’t go ruining it for them by making sense.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    Who needs a study. It’s just common sense to filter and/or treat your water, and practice good hygiene.
    They’re having fun arguing. Don’t go ruining it for them by making sense.
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  19. #159
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    And if you’ve actually had Giardia, which I have, the fact that those cysts are present in a minority of samples doesn’t mean much. It’s so easy to avoid the problem.

  20. #160
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    Those who want safe unfiltered water on thru hike can always take a train into NY (City) and ask for a glass of tap water.

    That article got me wondering, however.

    Of the thru hikers surveyed for that study, just how many were in the group that said they don’t “clean” their hands after a bowel movement?

    Must have been a bunch given the confidence interval cited.

    Makes me wonder even more about flipping through registers.

    Especially since for every hiker in the study that admitted that utter lack of basic hygiene, there had to have been 3 or 4 who didn’t, right? Seriously, who would admit to a stranger they don’t clean their hands after a bowel movement? Or is that something today’s generation is comfortable with?

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