Vapor Barrier Clothing Questions

[TX Aggie]

Curious if any of you have tried vapor barrier clothes, primarily for sleeping not while hiking.

It seems like there are only a couple of places that offer them, and they seem a bit on the expensive side.

I was wondering if anyone had ever tried those sauna suits used for sweating weight loss would work. There doesn’t seem to be much non-breathable clothing out there except for those couple of sites. I’m half tempted to see if my wife can make something out of silpoly tarp material.

[Venchka]

Western Mountaineering sells a vapor barrier sleeping bag liner. It’s not terribly expensive.
Never done it, but the theory is that it has to be really cold and dry to work. Negative double digits cold. You’ll also need a suitable negative double digit sleeping bag.
Good luck and have fun!
Wayne

[kestral]

Dumb question maybe, but why would you want this garment?

unsure of weights, but you could use the ultra cheep rain pant and jacket I have seen in Walmart and other discount stores which is basically plastic, or use a construction sized trash bag cut and then taped together to use as a sleeping bag inner liner. Again, I’m not seein the advantage, I pay extra for breathable stuff as I hate to be sticky, stinky, sweaty if I don’t have to be.

As as a construction material for make your own garments consider the polycro window liner stuff on amazon. An inexpensive alt to silnylon for initial diy project. Can seam seal with tape or a small iron that can be found in craft stores. Or cut up large trash bag or plastic sheeting for initial trials until happy with patterns. (I do this with heavy duty plastic sheeting) you can sew on machine with fine needle and thread and long stitch width on plastic. It doesn’t hold well, but again I use for prototype before the fanicy material investment.

DIY can be fun; HYOH!

[moldy]

You don't want to sleep in such a thing. You will be amazed at just how wet you are going to get. I spent the night in a shelter with this young guy who thought he could fight off the cold by putting his feet and legs in a large black plastic bag then got inside his sleeping bag. The plastic bag had a few small holes in it and the water just poured through the holes and got his sleeping bag wet. He was not a happy camper by morning.

[Venchka]

You don't want to sleep in such a thing. You will be amazed at just how wet you are going to get. I spent the night in a shelter with this young guy who thought he could fight off the cold by putting his feet and legs in a large black plastic bag then got inside his sleeping bag. The plastic bag had a few small holes in it and the water just poured through the holes and got his sleeping bag wet. He was not a happy camper by morning.

Precisely why VBL use is limited to very cold and consequently very dry conditions. Everest was a good place for a VBL once upon a time.
Wayne

[Tipi Walter]

You don't want to sleep in such a thing. You will be amazed at just how wet you are going to get. I spent the night in a shelter with this young guy who thought he could fight off the cold by putting his feet and legs in a large black plastic bag then got inside his sleeping bag. The plastic bag had a few small holes in it and the water just poured through the holes and got his sleeping bag wet. He was not a happy camper by morning.

My experience precisely. Backpacking and living outdoors is hard enough---as is sleeping in a tight zipped up sleeping bag every night for dozens of nights. Why make it so much more worse by sleeping in a watertight wet bag??

Plus, I have found no need for any kind of VBL paraphernalia in the Southeast winters with temps down to -10F. A good down overkill bag will provide enough warmth and stay condensation-free and dry for long uninterrupted trips. There's no "build up" of down wetness over the days rendering your bag useless. Needing VBL gear may be true for backpackers living out at -30F for weeks at a time---but we don't need VBL stuff in the mountains of NC and TN and Georgia and Virginia in order to stay warm or "warmer".

[TX Aggie]

Dumb question maybe, but why would you want this garment?

unsure of weights, but you could use the ultra cheep rain pant and jacket I have seen in Walmart and other discount stores which is basically plastic, or use a construction sized trash bag cut and then taped together to use as a sleeping bag inner liner. Again, I’m not seein the advantage, I pay extra for breathable stuff as I hate to be sticky, stinky, sweaty if I don’t have to be.

As as a construction material for make your own garments consider the polycro window liner stuff on amazon. An inexpensive alt to silnylon for initial diy project. Can seam seal with tape or a small iron that can be found in craft stores. Or cut up large trash bag or plastic sheeting for initial trials until happy with patterns. (I do this with heavy duty plastic sheeting) you can sew on machine with fine needle and thread and long stitch width on plastic. It doesn’t hold well, but again I use for prototype before the fanicy material investment.

DIY can be fun; HYOH!

Just looking for cheap options, and I’ve seen decent sauna suits for around $20. I originally looked at rain gear, but it’s becoming increasingly difficult to find non-breathable rain gear. I was wondering about a couple of the cheaper ones would work.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[TX Aggie]

Precisely why VBL use is limited to very cold and consequently very dry conditions. Everest was a good place for a VBL once upon a time.
Wayne

This is the only reason I’m looking, specifically for extended sub-freezing trips.

[Tipi Walter]

This is the only reason I’m looking, specifically for extended sub-freezing trips.

I just got back from a 20 day January trip with consistently subfreezing temps in 10 consecutive days etc. Every night ranged from 12F down to 0F and all my down items kept me alive and warm. Sometimes a moist wind blows, sometimes a bone dry wind blows---and it's bone dry (air humidity) days which "sublimates" your geese and relofts everything.

But heck some people might love the clammy feel of sleeping in VBL gear. I avoid it.

[Traffic Jam]

I just got back from a 20 day January trip with consistently subfreezing temps in 10 consecutive days etc. Every night ranged from 12F down to 0F and all my down items kept me alive and warm. Sometimes a moist wind blows, sometimes a bone dry wind blows---and it's bone dry (air humidity) days which "sublimates" your geese and relofts everything.

But heck some people might love the clammy feel of sleeping in VBL gear. I avoid it.

Me too.

If anyone is interested in experimenting at home, try a pair of knee-high, surgical, foot covers for about 30 minutes.

[Dogwood]

Curious if any of you have tried vapor barrier clothes, primarily for sleeping not while hiking.

It seems like there are only a couple of places that offer them, and they seem a bit on the expensive side.

I was wondering if anyone had ever tried those sauna suits used for sweating weight loss would work. There doesn’t seem to be much non-breathable clothing out there except for those couple of sites. I’m half tempted to see if my wife can make something out of silpoly tarp material.

Before having your wife go through such efforts try sleeping in like real world conditions and sleep set ups at home in the yard employing a cheapie non permeable big box hardware store rain jacket, pants, and Superman like boots. One thing you'll find is there certainly is a difference between breathable rain pants and jacket and non permeable non breathable ones.


It depends on your goal. For 98% of trips wishing to go with a down bag/quilt I find better approaches for myself to conserve loft either wearing breathable rain pants and jacket as permeable/breathable pseudo VBL apparel incorporated into the sleep system, getting to a dryer(if I have access), and/or incorporate hydrophobic downs. At some point I switch to one of the latest synthetic bags/quilts. Tipi recently said he gets by using a down bag based on his length trips by going with a lower rated temp bags expecting to lose some loft over his typical 10-14 day winter trips.


Andrew Skurka, based on his trips and approaches, wore VBL apparel both while on the move and incorporated into his sleep system on some trips. Andrew wrote up I think at least two VBL apparel articles worth a read.

[Dogwood]

Tipi also spends time drying his down bag and outside of it which can cut down on loft collapse. My guess is he's not spending much time letting himself get into a sweat fest mode especially during those 2 wk + winter trips.

[Dogwood]

This is the only reason I’m looking, specifically for extended sub-freezing trips.

Andrew wrote up his articles based on this type of trip.

[Dogwood]

My experience precisely. Backpacking and living outdoors is hard enough---as is sleeping in a tight zipped up sleeping bag every night for dozens of nights. Why make it so much more worse by sleeping in a watertight wet bag??

Plus, I have found no need for any kind of VBL paraphernalia in the Southeast winters with temps down to -10F. A good down overkill bag will provide enough warmth and stay condensation-free and dry for long uninterrupted trips. There's no "build up" of down wetness over the days rendering your bag useless. Needing VBL gear may be true for backpackers living out at -30F for weeks at a time---but we don't need VBL stuff in the mountains of NC and TN and Georgia and Virginia in order to stay warm or "warmer".

That's one viable approach that you take as you well know Tipi but there are other approaches where VBL's may work in the southeast as well BASED ON THEIR TRIPS.

[TX Aggie]

Before having your wife go through such efforts try sleeping in like real world conditions and sleep set ups at home in the yard employing a cheapie non permeable big box hardware store rain jacket, pants, and Superman like boots. One thing you'll find is there certainly is a difference between breathable rain pants and jacket and non permeable non breathable ones.


It depends on your goal. For 98% of trips wishing to go with a down bag/quilt I find better approaches for myself to conserve loft either wearing breathable rain pants and jacket as permeable/breathable pseudo VBL apparel incorporated into the sleep system, getting to a dryer(if I have access), and/or incorporate hydrophobic downs. At some point I switch to one of the latest synthetic bags/quilts. Tipi recently said he gets by using a down bag based on his length trips by going with a lower rated temp bags expecting to lose some loft over his typical 10-14 day winter trips.


Andrew Skurka, based on his trips and approaches, wore VBL apparel both while on the move and incorporated into his sleep system on some trips. Andrew wrote up I think at least two VBL apparel articles worth a read.

Andrew wrote up his articles based on this type of trip.

His articles are a couple of the ones that got me thinking along these lines. I don’t do THAT many winter trips, but I do like experimenting. During the winter I hang in my backyard almost every weekend and I try different setups for the cold, which is why I thought I might try the cheap sauna suits first. If it works, great if not, I’m only out 20 bucks.

[Dogwood]

A cheapie rain suit(jacket and bibs/pants) at HD can be had for that price. Add in some bread bags for the feet with some rubber bands around wrists and ankles. If it doesn't work out throw it in the trunk of the car for changing a flat in the rain.

[MuddyWaters]

Curious if any of you have tried vapor barrier clothes, primarily for sleeping not while hiking.

It seems like there are only a couple of places that offer them, and they seem a bit on the expensive side.

I was wondering if anyone had ever tried those sauna suits used for sweating weight loss would work. There doesn’t seem to be much non-breathable clothing out there except for those couple of sites. I’m half tempted to see if my wife can make something out of silpoly tarp material.

You've gotten some good answers.
While Vapor Barrier can add a few degrees of warmth maybe up to 10 f, it can makes you soaking wet. In the morning you will freeze your dingleberries while changing. In cold and dry conditions you will quickly dry up. In cold and damp conditions not so .

The best use is really for extending life of insulation by minimizing moisture accumulation during extended Backcountry trips below freezing. In all other circumstances, a couple extra ounces of down will be lighter and way more comfortable and effective.

Some manage this moisture accumulation a different way, by bringing an overkill bag and taking time to dry it in the sun each day. Generally, on the trail if you're in town every several days moisture accumulation is not a big problem, if you have the chance to pop your stuff in the dryer.

Overkill bags have another benefit. When there to warm you leave them unzipped to ventilate, thereby reducing the bodys respiration moisture that has to migrate through the down and condenses there. So they may pick up moisture slower as well.

[Kfried]

Rbh designs is awesome. Socks are a good way to start to see how you like it (would not recommend Stephenson warm lite over Rbh). I've been on many trips in the winter where I was the only warm person in the group. Dry insulation is important and vbl really helps. My view is you either like it, or you hate it. I wouldn't go winter trekking without it. Generally from 0 to 25 I wear a short sleeve poly pro shirt under a vbl shirt and vent with a light down vest unzipped over the top. Very nice to put on dry boots in the morning I didn't sleep with.

[Dogwood]

Andy also benefitted by wearing his VBL as part of his layering, thermoregulation, wt, and volume reduction approach where he was out for wks between resupply or a town stop with reg dryer access. He tends to always be on the move too. I find it interesting to consider what he does in context of his approaches and endeavors.

[Dogwood]

Rbh designs is awesome. Socks are a good way to start to see how you like it (would not recommend Stephenson warm lite over Rbh). I've been on many trips in the winter where I was the only warm person in the group. Dry insulation is important and vbl really helps. My view is you either like it, or you hate it. I wouldn't go winter trekking without it. Generally from 0 to 25 I wear a short sleeve poly pro shirt under a vbl shirt and vent with a light down vest unzipped over the top. Very nice to put on dry boots in the morning I didn't sleep with.

And, in this way you avoid the clamminess while preserving your main insulation pieces as the outer most layer. There you go.