packing out the tp

[devoidapop]

This thread is about deucing in the woods and how you clean up and pack out waste. If it bothers you, just scroll on by. it's really not a big deal.

Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp

[TexasBob]

To make double, if not triple sure no harmful germ can (re-)enter your diagestive system.
The same you would carry your gun (if ever you did) un-loaded and safety pin flipped, maybe even the ammu separate from the gun.

My bottom line (so to speak) is that I would rather have cleaner hands and a less clean backside and tp works better for that then your suggested method. I guess I have taken to many classes in microbiology, parasitology and food hygiene to believe that you can wash your hands well enough without running water to prevent cross contamination with the hand that is used on your backside. WYOW (wipe your own way) is my motto, to each his own.

[tawa]

This topic on alternative ways to clean oneself is exactly why I won't let others touch my food bag and certainly not stick their hands down into my trail mix!!

[devoidapop]

This topic on alternative ways to clean oneself is exactly why I won't let others touch my food bag and certainly not stick their hands down into my trail mix!!

And don't go for that southpaw handshake!

[Miner]

As someone who hikes in arid environments frequently that require packing out the TP, this is what I've been doing for over 12 years, including the PCT and many trips into the Sierra Nevada and other parts of California. I use a small sandwich ziploc to hold my used TP though a quart size one works fine and is often all you have when having to buy ziplocs in town. Seal dirty TP ziploc. Dirty TP ziploc, my clean TP, and my small alcohol santizer bottle are all placed into a second clean quart sized ziploc. Don't normally seal the second one completely unless it's going to rain. Put second ziploc into the back mesh pocket on my backpack so it stays outside with the fresh air. I've never had to put it inside the main compartment of my pack. Pack rain cover and sealing the ziploc keeps the TP dry when it rains. I've never put it inside my bear can or hung food bag and have never had a bear or any other animal try for it even when they did go for my food bag. If you are really worried, then as others suggested, hang it on the outside of your food bag when hanging it.

When you first hit the trail or come out of town after eating something you aren't use to, it may start out a bit messy. Though later, after your body becomes use to your trail diet and hiking can make you really regular, it isn't so messy. But if it is, I normally place the used stuff on the ground till I done wiping and then use the cleaner pieces to wrap the messier ones before putting them in my dirty TP ziplock. When you get to town or a toliet, dump your dirty TP out of the ziploc. Don't feel shy about reusing the dirty TP ziploc for weeks. But when your ziplocs start to look a little worn, it might be time to replace it.

Packing out your TP isn't a big deal and those that freak out about it makes me wonder just what sort of toxic waste is their body generating so it will melt plastic. Just what is their trail diet anyway?

[Leo L.]

Well, if you take one step back and have kind of an overview, you might see that its not only about packing out what you've brought in (be it TP or wipes).
Its also about, that those items have to be produced in the first hand, and after having put it in a bin correctly, whats going to happen with it?
Do you know about the waste treatment of the specific community responsible for the bin you put it in? Or do you just thrash it shrugging it off?

Another issue is the certain percentage of bathroom runs that don't go so well. Even the strongest and most honest advocates of packing out have to admit, that every now and then there is a situation when you simply don't do it, but secretly thrash the stuff on site. Sometimes even not having dug a proper cathole.
I'm honest enough to admit that I've done bad every now and then.
Now count in all those numerous people who use TP and don't even think of caring about it afterwards.
The world I'm living and travelling in is full of TP blossoms.

Take the PCT as a sample, where an estimated 5000 people crap in the desert every day, even if there is only such a low percentage as 10% making some kind of mistake, like, leaving the TP on site, or have it blown by the wind, then count the years it might take it to decay (if ever it does).
Some time ago I read here in WB, a ranger having stated "TP is the biggest issue on the PCT".

I highly recommend getting rid of TP (and wipes) completely in favor of washing.
He (she) who never thrashed the tiniest piece of TP is free to throw the first stone.

[Singto]

Wayne, 3/4 of the world clean their back side with nothing but a cup of water. It really does work and work well. It is, however against the aesthetic that a lot of us North American types grew up with, so it takes a little practice. Also, if you are hiking in the desert and you body allows you to plan a little, hold off your doo doo duty until you are near your next water source so you can clean with as much water as you wish, without carrying it more than the many 100's of yards you will walk away from the water source before you dig your cat hole.

Most cultures that use water and hand to clean themselves almost always use their left hand. This is why they eat with their right hand and if they want to insult you, extend their left hand for a handshake. Toilet paper isn't only a cleaning "device" it is also a barrier between your hand and your waste. I'd rather see people properly use toilet paper than trust them to wash their hand(s) thoroughly every time.

[Leo L.]

...Toilet paper isn't only a cleaning "device" it is also a barrier between your hand and your waste...

What kind of barrier this really is?
You'd rather use disposable gloves. And pack them out, of course.

[Leo L.]

...
Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp

Sorry, make that an European Spruce, the most common tree in the Alps.
Cones are smooth.

Regarding germs, we had a very interesting experiment at school 40yrs back:
The Biology professor setup a bunch of AgarAgar dishes and we were free to stick every nasty thing into them we could find. The nastiest we found was an old drinking straw stuck in a floors gap.
One mate right coming back from the toilet (and he confirmed he had washed his hands with water and soap) we asked to print his fingers onto the Agar (several others stuck their thumb in there, too)
Next week we were ready to look at the developed germ cultures:
The drinking straw hadn't provided any germs.
Most other dishes were so-so.
But by far the worst was the one from the toilet-user.
Obviously the towel the guy had used after washing had brought the worst germs.

[Wyoming]

Leo L

"I highly recommend getting rid of TP (and wipes) completely in favor of washing.
He (she) who never thrashed the tiniest piece of TP is free to throw the first stone."

Well I will throw the first stone them because I haven't.

Just no.

Getting rid of tp is a good idea and no one should be carrying tp into the wilderness.

Your washing idea and that of others is non-functional way too much of the time. And incredibly messy to boot.

Wet wipes are by far and away superior to any other options for many reasons. Just take them out the next time and use them and you will be sold.

They get you cleaner than anything else.
They do not leave residue on your rear end like tp always does.
They are fast to use. Try the washing mess in the middle of a whiteout, a driving rainstorm, high winds, etc.
They save you tons of water. In dry condition hiking water is precious and using a 1/2 liter or more to wash yourself is stupid. What if you are in the middle of a 20-30 mile 1 1/2 day water carry. You're going to use a liter to a liter and a half of water to wash your rear???
They are easy to pack out.
They have a huge variety of secondary uses which tp does not have. All items in the pack should be able to be used in multiple ways.

[Leo L.]

As explained before, I can easily get clean by 200ml per session, and can shrink the amount to 100ml if necessary.

Maybe it makes all the difference where I'm doing my hikes?
In the (Middle East) desert TP is almost non-existent unless it comes from tourists, and using water is the way to go anyway.
The max water I carried was 9 liters, which was good for about 3 days. Did not count the miles done, because it was very mountainous.
Here in the Alps water is everywhere in huge amounts and in best quality, so most often I'd carry only a small drinking bottle during the day, and get water for camp just on-site or close by.
So in both of my typical hikes it would make not much sense to not use water.

Honestly, I've learned about wipes here at WB the first time in my life, about the same time they appeared in my home (teen girldaughter, you know).
Tried, undertood the troubles, and stayed away since.

[jefals]

This thread is about deucing in the woods and how you clean up and pack out waste. If it bothers you, just scroll on by. it's really not a big deal.

Gotta say though, no chance I'm scrubbing with a pine cone. That's one step up from a wood rasp

Well it started out being about the fact that you want to pack out the tp, and you wanna keep all your smellable stuff in your food bag. Which just goes to prove every rule has an exception.
But I'm with you, bud. No pine cones or sticks and stones for me!

[TexasBob]

..........But I'm with you, bud. No pine cones or sticks and stones for me!

My wife won't go backpacking because there are no toilets, I can just imagine her reaction to "Here is a pine cone, go to it"

[Miner]

You people do realize this thread is in the PCT section. Parts of SoCal, NorCal, and Oregon have some very long stretches (30+miles) with no water sources where you are carrying all your water for the day. There isn't always water left over to clean up, especially when you are having to dry camp so all water for cooking is carried.

That said, while I am a TP user, when water is available, I'll also use a little out of one of my bottles to do a final cleaning up after the TP. Otherwise, build up of dirt, salt, etc starts to build up and cause a little redness between the cheeks after a few days when the weather is warm. By using TP first, it minimizes the water needed to a very tiny amount and pretty much all or at least most of the stuff you don't want to touch is already gone. That said, please don't use your wiping hand (for TP or water method) to touch other people's stuff, food you may offer them, or grabbing food offered from others.

[Venchka]

It’s about time someone else recognized what I was talking about many pages ago.
Wayne

[nsherry61]

. . .Wet wipes are by far and away superior to any other options for many reasons. Just take them out the next time and use them and you will be sold.
They get you cleaner than anything else.
They do not leave residue on your rear end like tp always does.
They are fast to use. Try the washing mess in the middle of a whiteout, a driving rainstorm, high winds, etc.
They save you tons of water. In dry condition hiking water is precious and using a 1/2 liter or more to wash yourself is stupid. What if you are in the middle of a 20-30 mile 1 1/2 day water carry. You're going to use a liter to a liter and a half of water to wash your rear???
They are easy to pack out.
They have a huge variety of secondary uses which tp does not have. All items in the pack should be able to be used in multiple ways.

Wyoming, you're apparently arguing with experience from only one side of the story.
1) I did use wet wipes in the past for a year or so. They worked exactly as well as they work, which is pretty good, but extra garbage and
2) Wet wipes DO NOT get one as clean as water! If you clean with water, you will realize there is no augment here. Wet wipes do way better than TP, but they don't hold a candle water . . . unless you are limiting your water to 100 ml or so.
3) Cleaning with water is not particularly messy. I would suggest less messy than TP, but probably messier than wet wipes.
4) As for fast to use, unless you are wiping so quickly you'll often be leaving a fair bit behind (pun intended), I've found all methods take about the same, except water doesn't require the added hassle of dealing with the trash.
5) Leo addresses the water volume issue above.

6) Sorry, but wet wipes don't hold a candle to water for multiple use!!

[Highland Goat]

You migh consider an OPSAK, or another brand of odor-proof zip-top bags.

[Another Kevin]

So this is kind of gross but I find that "trail diet" produces relatively clean #2s that don't require a lot of cleanup. Use the town potty before leaving (having eaten town food the prior night).

It's not necessarily the diet, it's also the position. I find that I have a lot less cleanup to do after going 'squatty potty'.

When there's snow, clean up with a snowball. Remarkably effective, and not nearly as unpleasant as you might imagine.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

It's not necessarily the diet, it's also the position. I find that I have a lot less cleanup to do after going 'squatty potty'.When there's snow, clean up with a snowball. Remarkably effective, and not nearly as unpleasant as you might imagine.

Totally agree - silly commercials aside, I think there's something to the squat.

[JC13]

I'm thinking I need to call Zpacks and tell them there is a market for a DCF poop sack.