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  1. #21

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    My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

    From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?
    It depends on who you ask. Everyone wants to make diet distinctions and promoting one diet regimen over another. Lots of money in promoting differtent diets! My goodness browse the diet book or diet mag section at Barnes&Noble. Ask a pro or long term Atkins Diet person and theyll say Keto Diet has the same basic premises - a low carb diet. In effect, I agree even though I don't adhere or generally promote either diet.They are both versions of a low carb diet.
    Yeah. I know about the marketing end of this stuff. My wife does THM and she's spent a small fortune on products and recipe books. It did bring cocoa butter into my diet, though and for that I am grateful.
    You can walk in another person's shoes, but only with your feet

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.

    From that, I would ask is that dietary regimen sustainstable or is it just thought of as temporary, as many taken to diet fads typically define.
    When my wife was diagnosed with diabetes the nutritionist told her she could go on a diet or make a lifestyle change. For anybody with a medical condition, I think the lifestyle change is the best approach. You make the changes to your food and excercise that you can sustain long term and greatly increase your chances of success.
    You can walk in another person's shoes, but only with your feet

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    When my wife was diagnosed with diabetes the nutritionist told her she could go on a diet or make a lifestyle change. For anybody with a medical condition, I think the lifestyle change is the best approach. You make the changes to your food and excercise that you can sustain long term and greatly increase your chances of success.
    If understanding correctly you're saying something different than the nutrionist. I think you're saying, at least in part, lasting dietary changes are lifestyle changes, to which I whole heartily agree.

    There are other lifestyle factors beyond diet and exercise that are correlated with diagnosis of Type II diabetes ie; smoking, excess alcohol consumption, high blood pressure...

    That's one of the common issues IMHO with diets, and to some extent lifestyle changes, they are too often temporary.

    I wish everyone godspeed navigating the nutrional and dietary industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonBlue View Post
    I'm looking for advice from fellow hikers who keep keto on long term hikes.

    I will be starting out the trip with a supply of things like pemmican, cashew whip, and dry ingredients for soups - all things that can be stored and/or cooked in a mylar bag. I'm also hoping to have RV support from my grandfather at certain points along the trail so I can resupply myself with such items that require prep ahead of time, though a lot of them can be made on the trail or prepped during pit stops in town.

    So my questions for those that do/have done keto on the trails:


    What kind of foods do you recommend carrying on the trail?
    How do you supplement your fat intake?
    Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!
    Personally, I think Keto on the trail would be foolish. You are going to need the energy from carbs.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Precooked bacon bits. Add to Mac&Cheese, Knorr Sides, instant mashed potatoes, oatmeal, etc.
    I thought that “keeping keto” might be related to the “keeping cute” thread. Who invented this new language? Where did this Keto diet thing come from? Why? Enquiring Geezers want to know.
    Wayne
    Keto is ultra-low carb. Your body goes into ketosis, which helps burn body fast faster.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?
    Same principle. The early weeks of Atkins are ketosis diets. IIRC, that's not the permanent Atkins diet.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

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    Quote Originally Posted by gracebowen View Post
    ... The ketone bodies pass into the brain and replace glucose as an energy source. ....
    This part is wrong, ketones can not pass through the blood brain barrier, The fats will fuel everything else but the brain needs glucose. So there is a process that converts protein to glucose ( gluconugensis <sp> ) so the brain functions and has the energy it needs. The brain will run on this manufactured glucose from protein while the body uses fat. In starvation that protein comes from the body breaking down muscle, but in a low carb Atkins type diet that protein comes from dietary sources. Since the body can not store protein, it is important to keep protein intake continuous, which in reality is pretty easy on a low carb diet and almost does not need to be mentioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Personally, I think Keto on the trail would be foolish. You are going to need the energy from carbs.
    Not necessarily fats have much more and once you switch to fats fully there is a lot of energy, but listen to your body, if it's crying out for foods while on the hike there is usually a very good reason.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Same principle. The early weeks of Atkins are ketosis diets. IIRC, that's not the permanent Atkins diet.
    ya mean ya cant continue eating 8 hot dogs a day?

  11. #31
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    I live largely Keto-centric. No sugars, breads, very low carb. That said, on the trail I eat what I can take and manage. When you're burning calories at an alarming rate you just need calories. That said, I know someone personally who has done tones of bike packing miles completely Keto-adjusted. But bike packing has the advantage of hitting plenty of restaurants where you can have more control. For me, I let myself eat what I can take and get. I can always re-adjust back to a Keto-centric diet when I return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    TU Grace for sharing the research. WB in reverse is BW, short for Book Worm.
    Neat. I needed a smile today. One of my luxury items if I make the trail will be a book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    My take is that on any diet that restricts or vastly alters normal carb, protein, and fat intake is going to have effects.
    Define normal. Or, how did we (the western world) reach our current normal?
    I doubt it had anything to do with health or wellness.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?
    The ketogenic diet has been around for almost 100 years as a dietary tool to aid in reducing epileptic seizures in children. It has gained a resurgence in popularity due to other benefits such as stabilizing blood glucose in diabetics, weight loss, lowering cholesterol, and is popular with intermittent fasters.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrL View Post
    Define normal. Or, how did we (the western world) reach our current normal?
    I doubt it had anything to do with health or wellness.

    Normal was used as an adjective synonymous with usual, standard, typical, average, or common. What that means in the context of my post is whatever one's diet typically is. Restating, whomever changes that diet in context of changing, for example macro nutrient sources or percentage allocated to those individual macro nutrients, it will have effects.

    What I was getting at is every diet changes things.

    Even if this forum allowed or your question was relevant to the topic in regards to hiking I don't know if I could answer succinctly or knowlegably enough.Vast chapters and books have been written and documentries produced examining your second question.

    I tend to agree with your last sentence. Excellent pt!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Normal was used as an adjective synonymous with usual, standard, typical, average, or common. What that means in the context of my post is whatever one's diet typically is. Restating, whomever changes that diet in context of changing, for example macro nutrient sources or percentage allocated to those individual macro nutrients, it will have effects.

    What I was getting at is every diet changes things.

    Even if this forum allowed or your question was relevant to the topic in regards to hiking I don't know if I could answer succinctly or knowlegably enough.Vast chapters and books have been written and documentries produced examining your second question.

    I tend to agree with your last sentence. Excellent pt!
    Nor did I expect an answer. My post was rhetorical and stems from my own frustration with diets and, more specifically, the forum discussions about them. (It was also probably fueled by a headache and spring allergies ;P). Fad diets gain popularity for a variety of reasons. I like to think that we are cognizant that the current normal isn't working. That there must be something better.

    I also think that most people's normal is completely ****ed and a hard reboot is exactly what they need. Even if they struggle and fail to maintain, hopefully they learn something from the experiment and incorporate it into their new normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by devoidapop View Post
    Pardon my ignorance. Is this a rebranded Atkins diet?
    Yes.

    Not to rain on the OP's parade but the Atkin's Diet along with other iterations of 'keto' diets have been discredited as healthy long-term approaches to eating. Multiple reasons. Certainly effective in the short-term for weight/fat loss and people seem to report other less tangible benefits like mental clarity, better energy, etc.

    But on a long trail, it's hard to think of a worse approach to eating. Huge daily energy expenditure, convenience/spoilage factors, and poor metabolic efficiency.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Keto is ultra-low carb. Your body goes into ketosis, which helps burn body fast faster.
    Yes, typically carbs are in the 5-10% range of total daily caloric intake. Fats are about a whopping 70% of total daily caloric intake. Protein is 20%. In short, the keto diet is another rebranded tweaked high fat low carb(extreme low carb) diet.

    That's not normal folks unless youre in a category like the eskimos. And, despite myths the eskimo way of eating, diet, certainly has resulted in negative health and medical consequences.

  20. #40

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    The OP asked valid pointed questions.


    ...What kind of foods do you recommend carrying on the trail?


    How do you supplement your fat intake?


    These two questions are related and worth asking!


    My 3 cts.


    First, absolutely realize there are "good" and "bad" fats and problematic good/bad fat ratios. For example, bad fats are unnaturally occurring trans fats or hydrogenated fats. An example of a problematic bad fat ratio, particularly a problem on trail, is a ratio super high in omega 6 fatty acids to omega 3's. *If 70% of one's diet is coming from fat, and energy is being largely dictated by fats, darn well better be addressing the quality of 70% of ones diet!

    What proponents of super high fat super low carb diets sometimes(often?) ignore as they runaway freight train to demonize carbs, only amounting to 5-10% of total daily intake on the keto diet, is the beneficial nutrients carbs can also contain such as fiber, mineral, vitamins, and other nutrients. This is equivalent to obsessing about a few found pennies on the ground - carbs - while ignoring the $50 U.S Grant - the fat - laying next to the pennies.

    Since carbs have been so severely restricted make a concerted effort to eat the most nutritionally dense carbs. Energy production and optimal nutritional health is not just about loading up on calories. It is a fallacy to assume otherwise. That means avoiding empty junk food simple highly refined carbs...as is SOO customary for AT hikers that rely on resupply from convenience fast food stores and gas stations. Go for the complex non refined carbs, vitamins, fiber, minerals, better fats/better fat ratios and other nutrients in things like produce (plants), nuts/nut butters, seeds/seed butters...Anyone on such a super high fat super low carb diet had better recognize this as well as recognizing there certainly are a plethora of high fat low carb junk food! Perhaps, on trail, such as the AT, there exists a greater exposure to and temptation for such foods. Since the OP has RV support its easier; that scenario may also be easier from a food wt carrying perspective. Bring tahini, coconut oil, EVOO, almond butter, and grow sprouts on trail and have these at the RV including other produce and high quality fat sources. I'd even consider carrying canned or foil packed(better) seafood such a WC salmon, WC sardines, yellowtail, etc PACKED IN EVOO.


    Any general suggestions/experiences with keeping keto are welcome!


    To offset those good things in good carb loses I'd be considering mixing in a low sugar keto approved electrolyte/vitamin/probiotic/powdered greens drink supplement.


    High sugar is a no no on the keto diet. Again, be wise to not let sugar intake escalate on trail such is common when opting for gas station and fast food convenience store food like junk food options. If you're already limiting fiber it's my guesstimate copious amts of sugar can result in contributing to roller coasting energy and possibly be additionally problematic to a keto dieter.



    Lastly, first experimentation of or dialing in a keto diet IMO shouldn't occur on trail. Accustom yourself over some longer term with the keto diet long before you step on trail. THEN, apply what you're already accustomed tweaked to on trail AT backpacking life.


    Maybe, some of this has already been considered or known but throwing it out there.

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