What would you have done?

[Leo L.]

We had a severe cold wave here the last days, forecasts were at -20C in the vally, and as low as -30C (-22F) up on the mountains. Very much snow up there, and high winds, but basically bright weather (which is the coldes possible).

My wife happened to pick up a hitchhiker and brought him to our house for lunch, where he turned out to be a hiker and mountaineer from our eastern neighbouring country, and at 20yrs quite a young one.

We had some very nice talks and he stated that he was aiming for the summit of the local highest mountain at 3000m (9850ft), a goal most of the alpinists from his country are aiming for.

We talked through his equipment, he had normal clothes (most of it cotton) but multiple layers of it, double synthetic sleeping bag, a single but thick CCF, and an ice axe. No crampons, no tent, no down (not jacket nor sleeping bag). Now snow shovel, no snowshoes. Canister stove and some food to cook. Hardly any money.

He intended to hike up the mountain by foot, following the downhill tracks of the BC-skiers, sleeping in the open, crossing the glacier, hopefully reaching the summit (which is a beast of via ferrate), later hike over to a famous skiing area on the other side to get this one spectacular view, and come down after another night up on the mountain.

We talked over the specific dangers of freezing to death, getting wet after miles of postholing, that all Alpine huts might be out of service. All the time I was weighing the pro and con, finally his chances to survive, to stop him or wish him good luck and go.

Finally we gave him our phone number as well as the number of the Alpine SAR, brought him to the exit road and wished him all the best.

What would you have done?

[4eyedbuzzard]

Sounds like you did all you could to warn him of the possible dangers and shortcomings of his gear and clothing, and the conditions. We have similar incidents in the White Mountains in NH every year. Generally it's a combination/mix of lack of gear, lack of knowledge/experience, and often a little arrogance. Even after receiving (and then ignoring) cautionary advice, people get into trouble and require rescue - and sometimes they even die. People are free to do things that may not be particularly prudent. Hopefully he will be okay - and again, hopefully not put SAR personnel in danger as well.

[Leo L.]

There had been a few reasons why I didn't stop him:

- He had been on the slopes of the very same mountian the year before, but had to turn back due to lack of time
A guy that turns back when its time to turn is high up in my apprecciation.

- What I estimated being the hardest task was, to wade and posthole through deep snow up the bc-skier tracks for the first few hours, which I thought would be the best "idiot barrier". If he could do this, he could do much of the rest too. Plus, failing on this very first part would leave him only 1-2hrs off the civilisation. Might be very hard to come back down, but not necessarily life-threatening.

- 40yrs back I had been up on this mountain the first time, with less experience and worse equipment than this guy had. I didn't even have mitts, but used my spare socks instead.
It had been a narrow case for me back then, but managed to survive.
Would I have turned back if an old guy had told me to? No way!

OTOH, we were sitting on fire the whole weekend, it was really extremely cold, I thumbed through the local newspaper to hopefully not find a report about a frozen hiker, but found a full-page warning issued by the Alpine SAR about the severe conditions in this days.
We felt very guilty the whole time. They have recue cases on this mountain almost weekly, most of them from this neighbouring country.

[moldy]

I have encountered a similar situation and did the same as you. It turned out ok. So stop feeling guilty. He made all these choices. Be sure to write back and let us know if he still lives.

[Leo L.]

Intended to let you wait 4 days, the same length we had to

We got a short call and a long mail with lots of pics finally.
He survived, and succeded in doing everything he'd intended to.

The wading and postholing up the bc-skier tracks was as bad as I belived it would be. But he was young and strong and well fed then, so he managed.
In the late dusk he reached the lower of the two Alpine huts, which was out of service, but he settled in the covered porch (not knowing that in every hut there is quite a cosy unlocked winter room free to use).
His canister stove did not fail, so he could cook a meal and boil some tea, and finally managed to sleep some.
The next morning he was lucky, as there was a fine snowmobile track up to the next hut just below the rim of the glacier, and another, even better track across the glacier up to near the base of the summit.
It was just easy walking all the way. The summit, which is not an easy one (the ironworks of the via ferrata were buried deep in the snow), he could reach by using exising steps from previous climbers up a very steep chute that only exists as such in heavy snow years.
The summit pic shows a selfmade balaclava covered in frost and rime with just his eyes peeking out.
He had to climb back down the chute, which is quite a chore - but he managed.
He then walked over to the ski area on the other side, had his views of the "Ladder into the Void" and all that, and finally when all (actually the few) tourists were gone and the ski business put to sleep for the day, he crept into the ice cave that was dug into the glacier for kids, cooked and slept there amongst the fairy tale figurines. He did not tell how much he shivered from the cold, but I guess it must have been noticeable.
The next day he crossed back over the glacier to our side, and hiked and postholed down all the way back into civilisation.
On his way, he met another Alpinist, who happened to have a business date the other day near the guy's hometown, who invited him for a free car ride.
So he setteled for another cold night in the open, down in the vally (hidden deep into the canyon there), which is one of the coldest spot in our area.
The last day was all nice and warm rdiding back home.
Basically he had done everything perfectly right.
Love this guy and his story!

[Dogwood]

You put applicable info out there presenting it for him to grasp. Maybe he did to some extent. It's good you love the story he made it. Did he do everything right? I'm not so sure he did. I'm not so sure he didn't. Maybe he was simply fortunate that issues didn't escalate. Just because we survive doesn't mean we couldn't have done things better or done things "right."

[Leo L.]

I belive the safety margin was pretty narrow in what he did.
OTOH, it was mostly himself and his body he did rely on, not so much technical devices and features, what gave him the advantage that the body itself might not that easily fail as tech stuff tends to.

[Dogwood]

"I belive(believe) the safety margin was pretty narrow in what he did."Within the context of his trip it seems so."OTOH, it was mostly himself and his body he did rely on, not so much technical devices and features, what gave him the advantage that the body itself might not that easily fail as tech stuff tends to."Umm? They(body, gear, ability, etc) were working together in this scenario. And when they don't, when he gets into issues, he's very likely no longer relying on himself but Alpine SAR.

[Dogwood]

Make it clearly known people will be financially and legally responsible for SAR and involving others that can lead to other people getting injured or dying and see how personal responsibility level for one's own adventure rises to the task.

[rocketsocks]

Would have asked him to sit down and write two letters, one to his loved ones, and one to whom ever comes along in the future with the same hairbrain idea requesting they sit down and write to letters.

[Leo L.]

Yes, I belive that the body is more relieable than gear.
Gear tends to break without warning and you're in serious troubles.
The body usually has a built-in margin you can always stretch some. You will be highly uncomfortable or maybe suffer bodily demage, but will still live.
(of course you can't do anything in serious conditions without gear. I'm speaking about specialised gear you might use to get a specific task done).

Alpine SAR is done by volunteers and basically is free, most likely the rescued would tip the guys generously.
More often than not the SAR includes a copter, and then it depends which copter is hoovering in. If its from the Ministry of Interior (basically the Police), they will not write an invoice. If its a private one or from the road ambulance, its very expensive.
Most Alpinists have an insurance to cover SAR costs (no idea if this guy had one).
But the SAR team doesn't ask who will pay before rescueing somebody, they act first and maybe ask afterwards.

[Bronk]

Make it clearly known people will be financially and legally responsible for SAR and involving others that can lead to other people getting injured or dying and see how personal responsibility level for one's own adventure rises to the task.

The basic problem with this is SAR rarely goes looking for someone at their own request. Who pays when SAR shows up and the person says "I'm fine, I didn't need to be rescued" and SAR is trying to convince the person to come back with them so they can leave them on the hook for the bill?

[Feral Bill]

It looks like:
A. His climb was a bad idea.
B. You did everything you could to dissuade him.
C. He went ahead without coming to any great harm.

Many, maybe most of us have taken foolish risks and survived. That does not mean we were not foolish, it means we were lucky.

[fiddlehead]

Sounds like Messner's son.
Strong kid, aye?
Turned out: Lucky too!

[Dogwood]

Resources, efforts, energies, and when people are hurt or die attempting to assist another, maybe because that other person behaved foolhardy, aren't free. They cost someone something.


Because SOME SAR personnel are employed in a volunteering capacity is no excuse for acting recklessly. SAR are very often supported by and in conjunction with paid authorities working together. There is no free lunch.

From this person's perspective what you did Leo was commendable. I'm happy to hear when things work out. And, when you factor into it working out could have been in part because of what you did all the more satisfying.

[cmoulder]

The fact that he made it this time will only make it harder to dissuade him next time.

I have some neighbors whose son died a few years back in Colorado under similar circumstances and it has really devastated their lives. You can literally see the pallor that falls over their faces whenever there's some mention of the death of a young person whose life was cut tragically short.

But however painful it is still HYOH. I think Leo did the right thing.

[garlic08]

Ethics aside, I would have chewed him out for ruining a ski track. I'm a skier and that irks me.

I agree you did the right thing, and about all you could. I don't think you could have stopped him legally. I suppose you could have asked him to read "Into the Wild" by John Krakauer. The movie was powerful, too. We adventurers sometimes overstep our boundaries, or make one simple misstep, and get into serious trouble. (But then again, much worse happens, many times a day, on our highways.)

[KCNC]

I hope he had the good sense to buy a lotto ticket, so as to not waste all that good luck.

[gpburdelljr]

The fact that he made it this time will only make it harder to dissuade him next time.

Some people do the same thing, the wrong way, for years and call it experience.

[cmoulder]

Some people do the same thing, the wrong way, for years and call it experience.

lol, I love that quote, and it's so true!

A friend of mine from my other hobby, radio controlled airplanes, made a similar observation about some pilots: "They don't have thirty years' experience; they've just repeated the first year 30 times." There are people who've been flying for decades and still can't land an airplane worth a damn, and that is without question the most important maneuver in all of aviation!