Canister vs. Liquid fuel

[peakbagger]

IMO If you are a typical thru hiker its hard to beat a pocket rocket type canister stove with a properly designed home made heat shield is the way to go. You can still use one without a heat shield but it increases fuel use and reduces its utility. Any sort of breeze or wind will cause a big increase in fuel usage and most folks will end up trying to find a sheltered space to cook in. Once you rig up a proper shield, breezes and wind are not an issue. One major trade off for canisters is that irresponsible hikers like to abandon empty or near empty canisters. I have even found them in fire rings.

Note many folks are willing to tolerate the limitations of alcohol stoves and are quite happy with them.

For group use or cold weather use, hard to beat a a MSR liquid fuel stove. They do require some education and maintenance, the stories of the bursting into flames are almost always operator error or lack of maintenance.

[Kaptainkriz]

I've got to credit @cmoulder for that method. There is a separate whiteblaze thread on it around in here somewhere...

I have several MSR liquid fuel stoves that were my only stoves in the 70's, and my winter stoves into the last decade. Then I read about placing a copper strip on the side of the canister that reaches up into the flame to keep the canister warm, and it works very well down to at least zero temps (F) for me (haven't tested the lower limits of this system). So lately, I've been using my little BRS-3000T with my "winter mod" for all my winter camping. Super light. Super simple. Super small and Super cheap (even though I already have the other stoves).

[bigcranky]

Steel, which is what canisters are made of, is probably the most recycled material in the world by percentage. .

True, though from what I've see on the trail a lot of the used canisters end up in the trash, often with a little gas left in them (not enough to grab it out and carry it, of course).) The other issue is that many rural communities don't have recycling programs, it all goes to the landfill. But in an ideal world, yes, they can be recycled.

[cmoulder]

I have several MSR liquid fuel stoves that were my only stoves in the 70's, and my winter stoves into the last decade. Then I read about placing a copper strip on the side of the canister that reaches up into the flame to keep the canister warm, and it works very well down to at least zero temps (F) for me (haven't tested the lower limits of this system). So lately, I've been using my little BRS-3000T with my "winter mod" for all my winter camping. Super light. Super simple. Super small and Super cheap (even though I already have the other stoves).

I've got to credit @cmoulder for that method. There is a separate whiteblaze thread on it around in here somewhere...

Thanks for the attribution, Kaptainkriz. And FYI this has been tested down to -21°F in Alaska by a BPL member.

For those not familiar with it, here is a bare-bones description: A copper strip .020" thick, 1" wide, attached to the canister on one end, sticking into the flame on the other end. I tested the living crap out of this and it is safe. Shown here with JB MiniMo but also works with any topper stove with an open burner. Does not work with very large burner heads such as the Primus Camp Classic.

MiniMo_with_HX_Strip.jpg

[nsherry61]

Thanks for the attribution, Kaptainkriz. And FYI this has been tested down to -21°F in Alaska by a BPL member. . .

I love alliterative terms. So, I'd just like to say that with the Moulder Mod on any of my upright canister stoves in cold weather, I have completely quit using my liquid fuel and inverted canister stoves (even in the winder) for anything other than larger group trips, where I still generally use my upright canister stoves, I just make sure we have at least one for every two people. Two stoves cook faster than one and redundancy, especially in winter, can come in handy at times.

Then, hopefully I'll get off my lazy ass and protect my stupid simple canister stove windscreen idea so I can share it with others.

[Starchild]

True, though from what I've see on the trail a lot of the used canisters end up in the trash, often with a little gas left in them (not enough to grab it out and carry it, of course).) The other issue is that many rural communities don't have recycling programs, it all goes to the landfill. But in an ideal world, yes, they can be recycled.

This is why the statement about the environment about canisters is a non-issue:
For those those who care about the environment and LNT however canisters are pretty environmentally friendly since they will get carried out recycled, so they will chose canisters for those qualities. Those who don't care will use them due to convenience and not care, leave them behind to be carried out by those who do care - not the right thing to do, but it is the practical way. Long gone are the days of burning one's trash and chucking heavy green 1 lb propane cylinders deep in the woods to avoid carrying them out, which one should even back then, but yeah many were chucked, today they are simply left behind to be carried out by others.

The only type that it does matter are those who care but know they won't carry it out, those people would be better to chose another method to avoid the temptation of trashing the woods.

[cmoulder]

I love alliterative terms. So, I'd just like to say that with the Moulder Mod on any of my upright canister stoves in cold weather, I have completely quit using my liquid fuel and inverted canister stoves (even in the winder) for anything other than larger group trips, where I still generally use my upright canister stoves, I just make sure we have at least one for every two people. Two stoves cook faster than one and redundancy, especially in winter, can come in handy at times.

Then, hopefully I'll get off my lazy ass and protect my stupid simple canister stove windscreen idea so I can share it with others.

I've used a MiniMo with the 1.8 liter Sumo cup for 3 people and it was totally adequate, even when all water was obtained by melting snow. But the 1 stove:2 people ratio is indeed highly recommended for the reasons you mention.

[Venchka]

LNT hey?
All 3 of my liquid petroleum fueled stoves don’t require any Backcountry items that need to be removed replaced or recycled.
A gallon of white gas is $8.00 in east Texas. As Feral Bill pointed out, a liter of fuel is good for a month at a cost of $2.00. With a simple jet change in the Swedish stoves I can burn kerosene available at service stations throughout the TN-NC mountains.
Wayne

[English Stu]

It is a while since I was on the AT and firstly I used a MSR Simmerlite and white gas;it didn't simmer very well and there is an art to using them safely. On another AT section I used a pop can stove -it helped to be able to make one on arrival as I couldn't travel with one from the UK.
Here in the UK on multi day/week trips I use a FeatherFire alcohol stove. On the JMT I did use a canister stove-they are good to use- weighty though as often need a second back up canister.
We do have can recycling centres but canisters have to go to a specific recycling centre which can deal with them. The refuse guys will not take them with other cans.

[cmoulder]

There should be a law that refuse guys cannot refuse refuse.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

True, though from what I've see on the trail a lot of the used canisters end up in the trash, often with a little gas left in them (not enough to grab it out and carry it, of course).) The other issue is that many rural communities don't have recycling programs, it all goes to the landfill. But in an ideal world, yes, they can be recycled.

+1 this. I am a recycler, but I still stick to liquid fuels because I can buy the fuel in bulk.

[nsherry61]

. . .Canisters: . . . terrible for the environment with the single-use canisters. . .

This attitude completely blows my mind!! How many of you that don't use canisters because they are "single-use" also eat canned soup, beans or food of any kind at home? Using a canister is no different than eating food from a can or drinking your favorite beverage from a can or bottle!!!

Let's keep our LNT and environmental indignation in context please!

[cmoulder]

Liquid fuel is purchased in a metal container, so there's that.

Actually, I refill canisters with cheap butane that is used in tabletop stoves. But the cheap butane comes in a different kind of canister, so.... umm...

[ADK Walker]

If I'm melting snow for water I take one or two liquid fuel MSR stoves. Otherwise I'm taking canister stoves backpacking. The simplicity of canister stoves really appeals to me.

The canisters are refillable if you choose to do it.

For extended canoe trips with 6 or more paddlers with limited portages I carry a dual burner Coleman propane stove and a 11lb propane tank with a 3' hose.