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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee View Post
    Thanks. I've downloaded it in case they remove it. Unfortunate we live in such a litigious society.
    Conversely, its unfortunate some people ignore insurance in for fee services like these, unfairly competing with responsible businesses and negligently putting clients at risk.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    So, how would insurance companies know that people are being given rides under the drivers personal car insurance? There are many insurance companies, would they all get together to get local LEO to target shuttle drivers? When many of the areas being serviced probably don't even have a police force and rely on State Troopers who rarely patrol the back roads in the mountains?

    I suppose if there is a serious accident and a hiker passenger gets injured or killed, then the insurance co would find out about it. But I don't think this has ever happened yet. It could of course, so lets hope it never does.

    What kind of insurance do UBER drivers have to have?
    The only time insurers discover drivers are using personal insurance for commercial operations is when there is an accident. Those involved in the accident will file claims (directly or through their insurers) agains the driver's insurer, which will lead to an investigation. Once its discovered the drivers policy did not cover commercial use of the vehicle, claims will be denied, personal policy will be cancelled, and the driver exposed to civil actions. Police forces do not necessarily patrol for civil requirements unless it is part of an investigation, which if the accident is serious enough they too will discover the driver isn't covered for the use. The driver is then exposed to civil actions for lost equipment, injuries or death, and possible criminal negligence charges if there are violations of road laws involved. The risk is pretty substantial for clients taking rides who are not aware there is no coverage.

    Accidents involving people using their cars for commercial use are quite common in the US, how many specifically in the AT shuttle service industry is anyones guess since most accidents are minor and do not reach the level of media reporting and are likely shown as personal vehicle accidents. This is where negligence standards apply in both civil and criminal law, which are difficult to defend.

    As I understand it from several UBER drivers, they have an insurance rider they are provided when they take fares from the UBER network. However, even if the driver says he is an UBER driver and you have not used the system to secure the ride, the insurance is not provided for that driver on that ride.

  3. #63
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    As I understand it from several UBER drivers, they have an insurance rider they are provided when they take fares from the UBER network. However, even if the driver says he is an UBER driver and you have not used the system to secure the ride, the insurance is not provided for that driver on that ride.
    That is true. I pointed this out in post #36 of this thread. Part of that post:

    "Uber requires all of their drivers to have car insurance, and provides supplemental insurance coverage, but only while the app is on. Here's how it works: When the Uber app is off, a driver is covered by their own personal car insurance. When the Uberapp is turned on, a low level of liability insurance becomes active."
    Trail Name - Slapshot
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  4. #64
    AT 9,500 Miler
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    The ATC still has a list of "Local Transit & Regional Transit Stations" that lists busses and trains. I wonder how the ATC verifies these places are paying their insurance?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    So, how would insurance companies know that people are being given rides under the drivers personal car insurance? There are many insurance companies, would they all get together to get local LEO to target shuttle drivers? When many of the areas being serviced probably don't even have a police force and rely on State Troopers who rarely patrol the back roads in the mountains?

    I suppose if there is a serious accident and a hiker passenger gets injured or killed, then the insurance co would find out about it. But I don't think this has ever happened yet. It could of course, so lets hope it never does.

    What kind of insurance do UBER drivers have to have?
    it is called livery insurance ... ride share insurance .

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrabbler View Post
    I agree 100%. I was just trying to argue that this isnt a huge money making opportunity as the other poster had suggested.

    The folks making the real money are the REI's that capture all of the millions of folks that romance hiking the trails and never do.
    i'm not sure why you want to argue . i'm actually a growing business on the trail and know a little about what is going on . i was able to start with nothing after my hike and blossomed into a company that has commercial insurance and one employee . i'm continuing to grow as we speak . life is what you make it . if you think small you will never make it . i'm not a " i settle " type of guy . if you want to say that it is small money and no one is making any all the power to you . to argue just for the sake of arguing is unhealthy . peace my friend and good luck brother

  7. #67

  8. #68
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    This is now posted on the ATC website.

    http://appalachiantrail.org/home/exp...tation-options
    Well, that makes it official. I wonder how long before other sites that provide a shuttle list follow suit. This is not a good deal for both the shuttle drivers and the hikers.
    Trail Name - Slapshot
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  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    Well, that makes it official. I wonder how long before other sites that provide a shuttle list follow suit. This is not a good deal for both the shuttle drivers and the hikers.
    funny enough its possible to hike the trail without a shuttle ride...hikers will survive, as will the shuttle drivers.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
    funny enough its possible to hike the trail without a shuttle ride...hikers will survive, as will the shuttle drivers.
    It's far easier for a thru-hiker to hike without using a shuttle than a section hiker who is looking to get on/off the trail at a location that doesn't have a lot of public transportation options. Not everyone has the extra vacation time to extend a hike so they can get off at a convenient location.

  11. #71
    4eyedbuzzard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Blue View Post
    The ATC still has a list of "Local Transit & Regional Transit Stations" that lists busses and trains. I wonder how the ATC verifies these places are paying their insurance?
    I think there's a pretty big difference between a private shuttle driver with one car and public transit companies like buses and trains, and most all of the trains are quasi-government public benefit corporations of some sort anyway. Public transit companies are subject to a lot of government oversight. Their equipment gets inspected regularly, their drivers get background checks, etc. I would seriously doubt that Greyhound (or even little old Cyr Bus Lines in ME) ever lets its insurance lapse or doesn't have the appropriate coverage for its type of operation.

  12. #72
    Wanna-be hiker trash Sarcasm the elf's Avatar
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    The ATC has clearly taken this step for the sole purpose of trolling Whiteblaze and they are currently watching this discussion and laughing.
    Last edited by Sarcasm the elf; 03-19-2018 at 10:04.
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  13. #73
    Can you dig it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    The ATC has clearly take this step for the sole purpose of trolling Whiteblaze and they are currently watching this discussion and laughing.
    -the first factually infallible post on White Blaze!!!! I see that LaurieP has not posted yet, but to keep you all from ripping each others eyeballs out (too late) I'll try to help: This is not my department at ATC BUT I believe we removed the shuttle list because there were other organizations that were doing a good job of keeping a good list up to date, and (not to give toooo much red meat to the wolves), there is still some level of desire to keep the A.T. management structure as decentralized and grass-roots as possible (I regret typing that already

    There have been shuttlers, primarily in VA that have been cited by the state for not having insurance. this did not play a major role in the decision to take the shuttle list down, but we are looking into a legal solution for these services.

  14. #74
    Registered User ldsailor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
    funny enough its possible to hike the trail without a shuttle ride...hikers will survive, as will the shuttle drivers.
    I'm not a thru-hiker. In two years, I've done 1280 miles of the AT during hikes in the spring and fall of both years. Last year I had to get to Marion, VA from the Roanoke airport to start my hike. The point is not everyone can avoid the need for a ride. In May of this year I have to get to Wind Gap, PA, and I'll need a ride from the Allentown, PA airport.

    The AT Facebook group probably has someone asking about shuttles at least twice a week. Talk to a shuttle driver and they'll tell you they are busy at this time of the year. Thank you for your comment, but honestly, you are not addressing the issue from the needs of those who are not as fortunate as you to not need a paid ride.
    Trail Name - Slapshot
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  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldsailor View Post
    I'm not a thru-hiker. In two years, I've done 1280 miles of the AT during hikes in the spring and fall of both years. Last year I had to get to Marion, VA from the Roanoke airport to start my hike. The point is not everyone can avoid the need for a ride. In May of this year I have to get to Wind Gap, PA, and I'll need a ride from the Allentown, PA airport.

    The AT Facebook group probably has someone asking about shuttles at least twice a week. Talk to a shuttle driver and they'll tell you they are busy at this time of the year. Thank you for your comment, but honestly, you are not addressing the issue from the needs of those who are not as fortunate as you to not need a paid ride.
    if there were no shuttles(never going to happen) and you wanted to hike bad enough you would find a way.

    All that has happened is ATC is no longer maintaining their own list of drivers. Drivers will still be available - you may have to work a little harder to find them - but be assured despite all the overwrought concern in this thread, drivers who want business will get the word out on how to get in touch.

  16. #76
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    Might even be a benefit to both the other sites (like this one) and even the hikers overall. The obvious benefit to the sites listed is that they get more people visiting to check the listings - the benefit to the hikers is that, once they get to the site looking for that list one can hope that they also check other pages on the site and perhaps get other information that will help them be a better hiker in the long run.

  17. #77

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    The ATC webpage on shuttles provides 5 links to the shuttle page of other websites, including Whiteblaze.net, that have shuttle listings.

    http://appalachiantrail.org/home/exp...tation-options

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