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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyou View Post
    Wow ! Throw them all under the bus .
    Just kinda sad to see them be such a shadow of what they once were. It looks like they are trying to make a path forward this year by setting out a plan for future articles, skills teaching, etc. But the masses don't even bother because they cannot participate in the forums for free.

  2. #22
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    But back on topic. I don't see the price of cuben fiber getting any lower since there is no competitor to it currently. Some of the 7d silpoly stuff is promising (GG The One, GG The Two). And we are still waiting to see the finished weight on the Lunar Solo and Skyscape Trekker refreshes at Six Moon Designs. The Gatewood Cape went from 13oz to 10oz with their new sil nylon/sil poly or whatever it is material. If the gatewood cape dropped 3oz, I expect the Lunar Solo and the Skyscape to drop even more since they have larger canopies and floors.

  3. #23
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    Yeah, wow. Nothing against WB, but I'm willing to recognize BPL as a very good source for concise tech and gear demo details, and state of the market reports. I'm going directly to the outdoor industry and wonks on BPL for some things. The pay firewall, quality of content, and general flow on BPL can be appreciated without resorting to throwing either site under a bus.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    A state of the DCF market report, on WB?
    Yeah, lol. I was in work mode when I read this and totally geeked out. The DCF-carbon fiber mix for race cars/race trucks is cool, but no real UL backpacking applications. Always looking for something strong but lighter.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by madgoat View Post
    But back on topic. I don't see the price of cuben fiber getting any lower since there is no competitor to it currently. Some of the 7d silpoly stuff is promising (GG The One, GG The Two). And we are still waiting to see the finished weight on the Lunar Solo and Skyscape Trekker refreshes at Six Moon Designs. The Gatewood Cape went from 13oz to 10oz with their new sil nylon/sil poly or whatever it is material. If the gatewood cape dropped 3oz, I expect the Lunar Solo and the Skyscape to drop even more since they have larger canopies and floors.
    Not only no competitor, but people continue to buy it. The market says that the price delta is worth it, so there's a price delta.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Yeah, wow. Nothing against WB, but I'm willing to recognize BPL as a very good source for concise tech and gear demo details, and state of the market reports. I'm going directly to the outdoor industry and wonks on BPL for some things. The pay firewall, quality of content, and general flow on BPL can be appreciated without resorting to throwing either site under a bus.

    I’ve learned lots on that site . More left coast hiking and gear choices.

    Thom

  7. #27

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    Given what I paid for a Cuben Fiber tarp in 2008 and again in 2017, but have regularly checked prices almost every year in between, I can safely say it's only gone up with no sign of going down. And what I was once told, what makes CF finished products so expensive isn't just the cost of the raw material, but how difficult it is to work with compared to say SilNylon.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by madgoat View Post
    But back on topic. I don't see the price of cuben fiber getting any lower since there is no competitor to it currently. Some of the 7d silpoly stuff is promising (GG The One, GG The Two). And we are still waiting to see the finished weight on the Lunar Solo and Skyscape Trekker refreshes at Six Moon Designs. The Gatewood Cape went from 13oz to 10oz with their new sil nylon/sil poly or whatever it is material. If the gatewood cape dropped 3oz, I expect the Lunar Solo and the Skyscape to drop even more since they have larger canopies and floors.

    New Osprey Pack, an upscale Exos that uses a new fabric. Osprey gives the fabric their own proprietary name, but it appears to be some cuben derivative.
    https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product...ITY45_577.html
    For 50 bucks retail you lose approx 8 oz of weight
    Cuben fiber without calling it cuben fiber?
    Major pack company delving into the market area of cottage companies?

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaduck9 View Post
    New Osprey Pack, an upscale Exos that uses a new fabric. Osprey gives the fabric their own proprietary name, but it appears to be some cuben derivative.
    https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product...ITY45_577.html
    For 50 bucks retail you lose approx 8 oz of weight
    Cuben fiber without calling it cuben fiber?
    Major pack company delving into the market area of cottage companies?
    Really? DCF is essentially unwoven Dyneema sandwiched in Mylar.

    From the mfgr description:

    FABRIC
    MAIN 30D Cordura® Silnylon Ripstop
    ACCENT NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE
    BOTTOM NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE
    They then call it SuperUltralight(!) and list size M at 1.852 lbs (29.6oz), which is 5.6oz heavier than Zpacks' heaviest, Arc Haul. And the Levity in question is listed as 45 liter, Arc Haul at 62 liter (although that includes front mesh panel and side pockets).

    Not to quibble over ounces and terminology (forgive us, oh Tipi), but they're marching into territory where such things are much more closely scrutinized. "Super Ultralight" has a specific meaning, and this ain't it.
    Last edited by cmoulder; 03-17-2018 at 07:26.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Really? DCF is essentially unwoven Dyneema sandwiched in Mylar.

    From the mfgr description:


    They then call it SuperUltralight(!) and list size M at 1.852 lbs (29.6oz), which is 5.6oz heavier than Zpacks' heaviest, Arc Haul. And the Levity in question is listed as 45 liter, Arc Haul at 62 liter (although that includes front mesh panel and side pockets).

    Not to quibble over ounces and terminology (forgive us, oh Tipi), but they're marching into territory where such things are much more closely scrutinized. "Super Ultralight" has a specific meaning, and this ain't it.
    Such PASSION..............I like Zpacks too, but the big brands are always slowly moving forward, whether you like it or not.
    I believe there was a thread that scrutinized a new Cuben Tent. The main focus was the price. Numbers like Price / Oz were bandied about, to prove a point............perhaps that should be applied to this new entry into the market.
    Me thinks, that there are a number of folks who are allowing their brand loyalty cloud their responses. We seem to get quite attached to our gear.....................

  11. #31
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    In your post you stated:

    FABRIC
    MAIN 30D Cordura® Silnylon Ripstop
    ACCENT NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE
    BOTTOM NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE

    UHMWPE........and, what is that? Could that be Cuben Fiber by another name?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-...t_polyethylene

  12. #32

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    PASSION? Brand loyalty clouding response?

    Simple facts:

    You said "but it appears to be some cuben derivative" .... The material isn't anything like DCF.

    They said: "SUPERULTRALIGHT" ..... the weight is nowhere near SUL.

    Which of these facts do you dispute?
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaduck9 View Post
    In your post you stated:

    FABRIC
    MAIN 30D Cordura® Silnylon Ripstop
    ACCENT NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE
    BOTTOM NanoFly™ 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE

    UHMWPE........and, what is that? Could that be Cuben Fiber by another name?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-...t_polyethylene
    Please, educate yourself and then get back to us.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  14. #34
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    My Tarptent Notch weighs 27 oz. + guylines and stakes. My DCF tarp weighs 7.3 oz. + guylines, stakes and a continuous ridgeline made of zing-it. I also use a Dutch ware hook and stinger. My tarp with every thing else still weighs less than my tent set up.
    Blackheart

  15. #35
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    Hey, try to have a nice day

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by yaduck9 View Post
    Hey, try to have a nice day
    Thanks, and good luck with your research.
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by yaduck9 View Post
    New Osprey Pack, an upscale Exos that uses a new fabric. Osprey gives the fabric their own proprietary name, but it appears to be some cuben derivative.
    https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product...ITY45_577.html
    For 50 bucks retail you lose approx 8 oz of weight
    Cuben fiber without calling it cuben fiber?
    Major pack company delving into the market area of cottage companies?
    Ooh ahh feel my hand inching towards my SUL credit card.

    I chuckle at the gear geek marketing. The Levity, the Lumina, ventilated, stream lined, reliably durable, not just for thru hikes, Nano Fly 210D Nylon X 200D UHMWPE...

    I think I just wet out my SUL briefs.

  18. #38
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    Well, isn't that special...gear wonk flame fest wars on WB. Now, this is entertainment.

  19. #39
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    Cmoulder, Yaduck needs help. You're in a different place but in a place to help. Sounds like you know somethings he doesnt. Lead him through it...nicely. lol. Don't blame him for Osprey hitting on all "SUL" market selling cylinders although I q agree with you about the hard sell SUL BS.

  20. #40

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    lol, minor skirmish compared to an actual flame war.... a lot more participants needed for that!

    And also a topic that is at least a teensy-weensy bit subjective. I don't know how somebody gets so worked up when the facts are so starkly obvious.

    But as all the cool kids say (or so I've read) "Whatevs"
    UL, because nobody ever asks "How can I make my pack heavier?"

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