Trailrunners, Darn Tough, Gore-Tex is bad, snow on the AT

[NCC1701]

Videos of the AT this year showed lots of snow on the ground and low temps. How do people hike through this all day in their trail runners and not get frost bit? Am I missing something here?

[fiddlehead]

Keep moving.
Feet warm back up.
Bigger problem is cold water and swamps and soaking wet feet.
I've hiked all day in trail runners in snow and was fine.
Just have dry socks to put on when you climb in your tent at night.
I'll try to post a picture (if I can find it) of a hike I did in the Himalaya a few years ago in trail runners.
nepal 2004.JPG
Here it is. Heading up Dhumpus peak, near Dhalagiri. (sp?)

[CalebJ]

Agreed. A few years ago I was up on Mount Rogers in the winter and constantly breaking trail through snow and ice with frequent pools of water underneath. Temperature was in the 20's-30's during the day. No problems with feet in mesh trail runners, just wrang out the socks at night and kept them near enough to keep them from freezing while I slept.

[Greenlight]

Videos of the AT this year showed lots of snow on the ground and low temps. How do people hike through this all day in their trail runners and not get frost bit? Am I missing something here?

Foot maintenance, wool socks, gaiters, and body heat regulation. It isn’t hard to keep warm while hiking if you have the right gear and knowledge. Part of that knowledge is knowing when to get off trail when the conditions deteriorate.


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[MuddyWaters]

It's not hard when day temperatures are above freezing especially if they're above about 40. In the 30s, my toes can get numb sometimes if they're wet.

And then there's always bread bags. Or Gore-Tex socks or sealskinz for people that come prepared.

[Tipi Walter]

I thought of all the AT thruhikers out in March as I was backpacking nearby during March and saw alot of snow and alot of 12F cold mornings. I always carry gtx waterproof full leather boots on my winter trips and never get soaked feet or wet socks with this setup.

There's no sense in compromising your feet and your footwear and socks with wetness every day by having to simply hike thru a couple inches of water or in wet snow on a regular basis---and so I bring my leather ankle high boots. They allow me to wade little streams and keep my smartwool socks dry.

P1000250-XL.jpg
The majority of creek crossings in the Southeast are shallow rockhops with many of the rocks underneath the water. If you use tennis shoes you immediately soak your feet and socks---whereas a good full leather boots prevents this, as in my pic (crossing Brookshire Creek on the Benton MacKaye trail).

[Dogwood]

Videos of the AT this year showed lots of snow on the ground and low temps. How do people hike through this all day in their trail runners and not get frost bit? Am I missing something here?

Is that rhetorical? If you really are asking a question will you entertain an answer based on how I effectively do it?

[Dogwood]

There's no sense in compromising your feet and your footwear and socks with wetness every day by having to simply hike thru a couple inches of water or in wet snow on a regular basis...

As an observation, not a put down, I can tell you've never experienced 2000+ mile LD hikes over mixed weather or under changing seasons that involve precipitation, snow, ice, winter, and early/late shoulder seasons.

[Tipi Walter]

There's no sense in compromising your feet and your footwear and socks with wetness every day by having to simply hike thru a couple inches of water or in wet snow on a regular basis...

As an observation, not a put down, I can tell you've never experienced 2000+ mile LD hikes over mixed weather or under changing seasons that involve precipitation, snow, ice, winter, and early/late shoulder seasons.

Actually, these so-called 2,000 mile LD hikes are done in short section hikes interrupted with frequent town visits and resupplies---and laundry mat visits with dryers to dry socks etc. And overnight zeros in motel rooms. I doubt very few LD backpackers spend 3 weeks out uninterrupted with one food load. With frequent town visits they can afford to compromise their clothing and footwear.

[Dogwood]

You just gave one possible answer to your question then: "How do people hike through this all day in their trail runners and not get frost bit?"

But it seems you don't want to entertain any other answers just make rhetorical statements of disapproval and intolerance.

I'm making these comments based on open minded observation meaning I'm willing to consider that which I've not yet considered not on having a predetermined judgement or intending contention.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Actually, these so-called 2,000 mile LD hikes are done in short section hikes interrupted with frequent town visits and resupplies---and laundry mat visits with dryers to dry socks etc. And overnight zeros in motel rooms. I doubt very few LD backpackers spend 3 weeks out uninterrupted with one food load. With frequent town visits they can afford to compromise their clothing and footwear.

Good way to look at it. I consider a lot of modern LD hiking to be near the "coffin corner" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin...(aerodynamics) - where you're balancing the minimal amount of gear to get you to the next place of safety. It's just a feeling, based on hiking trips back in the 90s that were more like extended camping trips, where people brought redundant gear, and wore 50lb packs.

[Hosh]

Actually they are not compromising, they are optimizing. There is a huge difference between camping without a car and thru hiking 15-20 miles per day. If you want to walk in 2 miles squat for 3weeks with very low or no mileage days, so be it. Thru hiking is different animal, requires different strategies and equipment.

[Dogwood]

My bad Tipi. I mistakenly thought you started the thread. My comments mixed up two different posters.

[Odd Man Out]

While not hiking, I wear mesh trail runners and wool Darn Tough socks all winter. I live in West MI where we average 80 inches of snow per year. Never a problem.

[Coffee]

Walking through snow for days on end in trail runners has been a miserable experience for me when I have done it. My feet get numb and never thaw out for the duration, even at night, even in my down socks, even in my warm sleeping bag. My left foot had no feeling for several days after spending a week in such conditions on the PCT in May 2015. Additionally, I hurt my foot and didn't realize it because it was numb as I down climbed a steep icy area using my trail runners and trail crampons. It sucked, big time. Since then I have made a point to simply avoid hiking for days in snow. I have Asolo 535s that are excellent for day hikes in snow and keep my feet warm and dry but they would dramatically slow me down on a long distance hike. Still, I'd be sorely tempted to take them if I ever expect such conditions again, as I would when I eventually attempt the PCT as an uninterrupted thru hike again, which I will do at some point.

[CalebJ]

You still have a pair of 535's? I haven't seen any of those in a long time. Went through three pair of 530's and 535's from about '96 to '2004 or so. Used to love those things.

[Coffee]

You still have a pair of 535's? I haven't seen any of those in a long time. Went through three pair of 530's and 535's from about '96 to '2004 or so. Used to love those things.

I actually got my 535s only 4 or 5 years ago. I love the boots for cold weather hikes, but I've only used them for day hiking and even around the city if there's a lot of snow on the ground. I took them to Chicago in December for a few days. Wouldn't want them for a long thru hike but they sure are comfortable and keep my feet dry. They replaced a pair of Asolo 520s (gore tex) that I had for many years and had resoled, but resoling changed the width and made them uncomfortable so I purchased the 535s.

[Tipi Walter]

I'm making these comments based on open minded observation meaning I'm willing to consider that which I've not yet considered not on having a predetermined judgement or intending contention.

Say what?? You're over-intellectualizing the wet foot debate. My point to the OP is that your feet will stay warmer and dryer in leather boots than in tennis shoes---due to the nature of the Southeast trail and its trail puddles and shallow creek crossings.

But Dogwood comes on and says I have basically no experience that involves precipitation, snow, ice or winter. Weird.

There was a guy who thruhiked the BMT several years ago in tennis shoes and got caught in a wet cold snap and had to bail out to a town to save his feet. Every trail runner shoe-lover should read his entry. See---

http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/121084

Good way to look at it. I consider a lot of modern LD hiking to be near the "coffin corner" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin...(aerodynamics) - where you're balancing the minimal amount of gear to get you to the next place of safety. It's just a feeling, based on hiking trips back in the 90s that were more like extended camping trips, where people brought redundant gear, and wore 50lb packs.

I agree and see "getting to the next place of safety" more and more of a trend in backpacking nowadays. Nick Gatel on BackpackingLight says something similar when asked what has changed in backpacking in the last several decades. Here's his quote---

"What I think has really changed is most people are unwilling to backpack for 10-14 days without a resupply. They don't mind leaving the wilderness to go into trail towns and get food."

Actually they are not compromising, they are optimizing. There is a huge difference between camping without a car and thru hiking 15-20 miles per day. If you want to walk in 2 miles squat for 3weeks with very low or no mileage days, so be it. Thru hiking is different animal, requires different strategies and equipment.

So a guy in full leather boots can't pull 15 mile days?? And I know of thruhikers who are happy with 5 to 7 mile days and still continue their hike. Does this low number mean they are mere squatters or basecampers and are not therefore genuine??

[CalebJ]

I actually got my 535s only 4 or 5 years ago. I love the boots for cold weather hikes, but I've only used them for day hiking and even around the city if there's a lot of snow on the ground. I took them to Chicago in December for a few days. Wouldn't want them for a long thru hike but they sure are comfortable and keep my feet dry. They replaced a pair of Asolo 520s (gore tex) that I had for many years and had resoled, but resoling changed the width and made them uncomfortable so I purchased the 535s.

Just realized that they were still in production. I hadn't recognized them because they changed the leather finish at some point over the years. Used to be a very light brown nubuck.

[Tipi Walter]

I still use Asolo Fugitives for my 3 season backpacking and used to use a pair of 520s for winter camping until they had a quality control issue with the sole, see pic---

TRIP 142 617-L.jpg
This occurred after only a couple years of use. Now I upgraded to Zamberlan boots.