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Thread: Gender biases

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    I'm focused on my journey. If part of my journey turns out to be helping someone else, great! Because I'm not all that focused on my destination. I like going solo because I'm horribly slow and don't want to test the patience of a partner, not because I see other folks as burdening me.

    Also, I've received a lot of help on trail over the years, and I believe in paying it forward.
    I feel the same way. I just don't expect others to see things the way I do. Even my husband becomes mission bound on even a little day hike. He is focused on running out of time or daylight before getting to where we are going and I am focused on the pretty shape of the trees and that weird looking mushroom, etc. From the helpers perspective, I agree with you all, but from the one needing help's perspective, I bet none of you want to be the one. But I think I am thread drifting so... back to the matter at hand...

    Sometimes I think the word Bias could be interpreted as simply seeing/noticing a difference in genders, and adjusting accordingly. To be non-biased would simply be to not notice a difference and make no adjustment from one person to the next. Just speaking personally, I like being a lady and I like being treated as such, but not to the point that I am considered any less intelligent or capable. Many times I have been insulted by men who think I shouldn't worry my pretty little head about something, but I don't get all worked up. I just show them up or prove them wrong. No better revenge than to prove them wrong. I am always my strongest and do my very best when i have been told (many times by my husband) that I can't do something, or that it is too much for me. That's when I shine the brightest. So I don't let gender bias wreck me, I let it drive me. For guys, let it drive you to be more of a gentleman, more sensitive, the opposite of what you are being accused of.
    " Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. "

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnj View Post
    .............. For guys, let it drive you to be more of a gentleman, more sensitive, the opposite of what you are being accused of.
    A few years ago I was hiking with a group of older guys and a woman. We were in sight of a shelter where we planned to stop for the night and the woman saw another woman camped near the shelter and she made a beeline to the other woman's camp. I hear her say "I am glad to you are here, I need a break from the testosterone". I was puzzled because we were all trying to be gentlemen. I guess we failed but it has stuck with me and made me think about how even well meaning men can make women feel uncomfortable without meaning to.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    A few years ago I was hiking with a group of older guys and a woman. We were in sight of a shelter where we planned to stop for the night and the woman saw another woman camped near the shelter and she made a beeline to the other woman's camp. I hear her say "I am glad to you are here, I need a break from the testosterone". I was puzzled because we were all trying to be gentlemen. I guess we failed but it has stuck with me and made me think about how even well meaning men can make women feel uncomfortable without meaning to.
    Maybe she wasn't uncomfortable but rather just more comfortable with other woman. I just read Braving It about a father and daughter going on adventures in Alaska. At one point they are on a hiking and canoeing trip in the arctic with 2 other men. At one point the daughter says, "It will be good to talk to Mom again." She told her Dad she didn't mean any offense but being around three guys all that time wasn't that great. Did she have a great time? Yeah, she kept asking her Dad when they were going back. But she was looking forward to spending time with other women too. It doesn't mean anything is wrong or anyone did anything wrong. It's just our nature. Men will hang together at gatherings and women will. Sometimes they mix and mingle, sometimes they gravitate to the same sex. We need to resist the notion that something is inherently wrong with that.

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    dumbest thread i've read in a while

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Wolf View Post
    dumbest thread i've read in a while
    Why did you keep reading it?
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ aka Teej View Post
    Strongest, and smartest, hikers I know are female. That's not bias, that's fact.
    Having partnered with several different older woman over the years, I agree 100%.

    Those gals could hike me into the ground. Very goal driven too.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by FranklinBeans View Post
    Oh for bleep's sake. Found the misogynist.
    You just helped make his point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasBob View Post
    Why did you keep reading it?
    i didn't. i saw the title and read the first 5 or 6 posts then came up with my opinion. the post starter is a crap starter. non-issue

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    But we all now know he has a nice butt. Awesome.


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  10. #70

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    It is always interesting to note the level of emotional reaction and psychological persistance of an event, in others and ourselves.

    “When we are motivated by compassion and wisdom, the results of our actions benefit everyone, not just our individual selves or some immediate convenience. When we are able to recognize and forgive ignorant actions of the past, we gain strength to constructively solve the problems of the present.”
    – Dalai Lama

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    I have a gender bias.

    I prefer women.


    What other kind if "bias" is there?

    If things are "harder" for anyone, its 99% in their own head.
    At least for hiking.
    And thats their problem, no one elses. Whining about it dont change nothing. Except gives an easy excuse for failure
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-05-2018 at 09:15.

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    Default G ender biases on the trail

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Do gender biases exist on hiking trails? If so how can males address it when its exhibited against them...when it crosses the line?

    We most often hear about it occurring to females. There has been much discussion in this regard...how females can sometimes avoid or be alert against it and males needing to be more alert and sensitive not to engage in it. How can females be more alert and sensitive to not engaging in it as well?
    One of the things that surprised me on my thru-hike was the amount of female hikers hiking alone especially the number of older woman. During my hike and many years as a caretaker at Upper Goose pond cabin I have never witnessed any biasis tword a female. Iím not saying that it doesnít exist, but I believe under AT thru hiking sonerio it existes far less than in everyday life. The men I met on the trail showed a great respect for the female hikers that they came to know. They were treated with the respect most woman deserve..
    Grampie-N->2001

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Whining about it dont change nothing. Except gives an easy excuse for failure
    This reminds me of a recent article/blog I read. This woman quit her PCT thru hike. One reason, and apparently her primary reason, was the "bro-ness" on the trail. She claimed misogyny was so bad she had to leave. Which I found odd. Of all of the accounts I've read and vlogs watched, from women no less, I've not heard that. Sure the occasional, "Met John Doe and Jim Smith on the trail today. They were your typical macho types..." or some passing encounter like that but nothing that ever rose to the level that these women felt they couldn't continue to hike or that they had to make a concerted effort to avoid people on the trail to avoid the misogyny. Frankly, this person probably brought her problems to the trail and interpreted every interaction in the context of her problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    Frankly, this person probably brought her problems to the trail and interpreted every interaction in the context of her problems.
    I remember reading her account, and I agree with your assessment. That's exactly the problem with so many "triggered" people nowadays. They view the world through their own lenses, and attempt to fit every encounter into their world view even if it doesn't fit. I remember a YouTube vid on the JMT, a married couple, the woman obviously a feminist, the guy - well no comment :-). They had two 'encounters' on the JMT where she/they took offense at something that was said by others as being anti-female. I didn't see any issues. But I guess I'm just ignorant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPritch View Post
    I remember reading her account, and I agree with your assessment. That's exactly the problem with so many "triggered" people nowadays. They view the world through their own lenses, and attempt to fit every encounter into their world view even if it doesn't fit. I remember a YouTube vid on the JMT, a married couple, the woman obviously a feminist, the guy - well no comment :-). They had two 'encounters' on the JMT where she/they took offense at something that was said by others as being anti-female. I didn't see any issues. But I guess I'm just ignorant.
    A whole generation has been raised expecting the world to conform to their fears and ideas.

    It started with political correctness and not offending anybody with mentioning 100% true facts or history because it might make someone feel bad. And continues on into policy changes to avoid making anybody feel bad. And somewhere these ideals have been twisted even along the line it's become basically illegal to hurt anybody's feelings however for any reason, and persecute anyone who would dare to mention reality. Leaving some people living in Little Dream World. Then they have rude Awakenings.

    I'm all for not hurting people's feelings intentionally, but some people out there do need a good slap of reality sometimes.

    If you tell some people the same thing enough times, they believe it. Not only do they believe it but they build on it, an exaggerate it. Become unable to distinguish reality from it.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-06-2018 at 14:47.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnj View Post
    From the helpers perspective, I agree with you all, but from the one needing help's perspective, I bet none of you want to be the one.
    Nobody wants to be the one who needs help, who needs charity. But accepting help when it's needed is also an act of charity. That's a life lesson that a lot of people wind up learning on the trail. Everyone wants to be proud about not needing help, but sometimes the time comes to swallow that pride and just be thankful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lnj View Post
    Just speaking personally, I like being a lady and I like being treated as such, but not to the point that I am considered any less intelligent or capable.
    My belief: Treat everyone as a human being. With the capacity to grow and learn and do things for themselves. Treat every woman as a lady until proven otherwise. And I know some perfect ladies who can outhike me any day of the week.

    Of course, being a damn-Yankee, my treatment of a lady might fall short of some people's standards. And it'll all be pretty awkward, because I'm not wired in the head quite the same as most people. A lot of people who meet me in person get the feeling that I'm not quite right. That's one nice thing about being Out There - a lot of people who aren't quite right by town standards fit right in Out There.
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    A lot of what's going on is that we need to find new manners.

    Manners were invented as a way for society to agree on appropriate behaviour. When you do the mannerly thing, it might not be what a person wants, but it's at least (by social convention) inoffensive.

    We quite correctly came to recognize over the last few decades that what we'd adopted as good manners wound up putting some members of society into boxes that didn't fit. There was a fairly widespread agreement that we needed to change the standard of behaviour to be more inclusive.

    But we've never quite agreed on a new set of standards. To someone like me who's not wired to read people very well, it can feel like an exercise in mind reading. If I tip my hat to a lady and say, "Afternoon, ma'am!" I can't tell whether that'll be taken as "What a gentleman!" or "That pig just made a gesture of subjugation!" or "Eeeek, that scary man spoke to me!" or even utter befuddlement because they'd never seen a hat tipped before.

    Now there just doesn't seem to be any all-purpose gesture to acknowledge a stranger, demonstrate compliance with social norms, and go about your business. In fact, I wish I could recognize the "Eeeek, a man!" contingent so that I can demonstrate my compliance by sprinting away as soon as they come into sight - because anything else is threatening.

    In the absence of warning signs that I can discern, trying to simulate old-fashioned good manners seems safest.
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    The problem is you can't know. You can't know what is going to be misconstrued in someone's mind. Nor should it be your responsibility. If I make a comment directly attacking someone or making a generalization that is meant to needle someone, then I am at least complicit in their being offended. But if I make a general statement that was meant, nor would generally be construed as insulting and the other person, through the filter of their insecurities, is offended then that is on them. I've had it happen. Some people have serious problems dealing with life. Don't be one of them and don't take their hurt feelings on yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Joe View Post
    The problem is you can't know. You can't know what is going to be misconstrued in someone's mind. Nor should it be your responsibility. If I make a comment directly attacking someone or making a generalization that is meant to needle someone, then I am at least complicit in their being offended. But if I make a general statement that was meant, nor would generally be construed as insulting and the other person, through the filter of their insecurities, is offended then that is on them. I've had it happen. Some people have serious problems dealing with life. Don't be one of them and don't take their hurt feelings on yourself.
    Precisely.

    You can't worry about people taking things the wrong way because not your problem. Their problem.

    . Some people just take things the wrong way.... Either because they want to take them the wrong way......agenda..... Or they just been conditioned to for some reason.

    I have no doubt that some women have been told to fear men from the time they're little girls. All the talk in the schools they give them about people touching them inappropriately or making them uncomfortable, is well meant, but has created issues in children. Exposing them to things that they are not ready for or understand at too young of an age and it scares them. It can actually scar them psychologically. I saw this happen to a child, created severe anxiety .

    If they don't have any positive encounters to offset that as grow up, well, figure it out. People are the sum of their experiences.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 04-06-2018 at 16:43.

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    Uncle joe, you seem like a nice man, as do most men on white blaze. I have ptsd issues. These are not imagined, they are the result of real experiences which have been devastating. I am pretty happy and friendly while out traveling and hiking. I try to enjoy life, and not let my history dictate a reclusive existence. Statistically, many more than 1 in 1000 men are criminals, many violent. I have met more than 1000 men while hiking over many years. I would rather be perceived as a bitch than an easy target. Im sorry if I seem stand offish, it is self defense.

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