Kudos to REI for Sustainability

[Feral Bill]

REI proffits is greatly from the sale of Bicycles.

With the many hundreds of people killed on bikes each year — including no small number of school children — and the 10s of thousands more who suffer injury, one wonders if they are doing enough to support their own safety initiative in that arena.

REI sponsors safe cycling classes, at least in my community. To a large degree, cyclists die because they ride unsafely. Otherwise mostly because of bad drivers. I commuted for years in city traffic with only one scare, caused by a wrong way driver. I survived because the driver in the next lane braked hard, giving me a (small) place to go. The bicycle (bought at REI) was not to blame.

[rocketsocks]

Free will and personal responsibility

[Offshore]

I'm a backpacker, paddler, mountain biker, you name it outdoors, and have probably spent thousands with REI over the years, but with them going anti-2A, they will never see another dime from me. I'll gladly take my money to other businesses, like Hill People Gear and others, who respect the Constitution.

Exactly what is REI doing that is either violating the Constitution or your individual rights? Just as you are free to express political your ideology and support for an industry lobbying group by not buying from a particular retailer, that retailer is free to express theirs by not buying from a particular manufacturer. Everybody wants a piece of the victimhood and outrage...

[rickb]

Exactly what is REI doing that is either violating the Constitution or your individual rights? Just as you are free to express political your ideology and support for an industry lobbying group by not buying from a particular retailer, that retailer is free to express theirs by not buying from a particular manufacturer. Everybody wants a piece of the victimhood and outrage...

Sounds like Qajaq, like myself, is one of REI’s owners.

As such, wouldn’t you agree that he not only has “standing” on this matter, but a responsibility to have his own voice heard?

[nsherry61]

Sounds like Qajaq, like myself, is one of REI’s owners.
As such, wouldn’t you agree that he not only has “standing” on this matter, but a responsibility to have his own voice heard?

And, as you put it, I am an "owner" also along with probably most of the readers of these forums. Nobody is damning Qajaq's right to have his/her voice heard, but it would sure be nice if that voice were addressing something real instead of condemning "our" company for something it has quite carefully and deliberately avoided doing!

[rocketsocks]

Sounds like Qajaq, like myself, is one of REI’s owners.

As such, wouldn’t you agree that he not only has “standing” on this matter, but a responsibility to have his own voice heard?

I’d go so far as to say REI being co-op has a neutral fiduciary responsibility from a moral stand point.

[rocketsocks]

But hey, they got me for $20 bucks, but no more.

[rocketsocks]

Exactly what is REI doing that is either violating the Constitution or your individual rights? Just as you are free to express political your ideology and support for an industry lobbying group by not buying from a particular retailer, that retailer is free to express theirs by not buying from a particular manufacturer. Everybody wants a piece of the victimhood and outrage...

not fur nutin’ That victimhood goes both ways ‘ere skippy.

[Greenlight]

Yes yes, air conditioning and light are evil. But to the best of my knowledge, REI ships their products out using third parties, such as FedEX and UPS. Those companies generally put more than one package in each vehicle before going out for delivery, which would make them, in a sense, public transportation for consumer products. Beyond feeling good about implementing standards for sustainability, there is always that tendency to venture into jadedness, but nobody here on whiteblaze suffers from that unfortunate malady.

I love how these companies preach helping the environment. Then, you walk into these huge stores with air conditioners roaring, lights blaring, sucking up all sorts of electricity. Just think how much gasoline REI uses every day shipping their products across the country. If these little things make them feel better, fine I guess. They don't really practice what they preach.

[Tundracamper]

REI proffits is greatly from the sale of Bicycles.

With the many hundreds of people killed on bikes each year — including no small number of school children — and the 10s of thousands more who suffer injury, one wonders if they are doing enough to support their own safety initiative in that arena.

I see plenty of knives in the REI web site. How many people die from knife wounds each year? I see REI doing nothing to stop that.

The reality is that REI jumped on the band wagon to influence change that really has very little impact - accept for law abiding citizens. It's clear from the other posters that I am not the only one put off by REIs grandstanding for a few political points. They have created this monster and I'm kinda enjoying the backlash I'm seeing. Sorta reminds me of a kid holding their breath demanding action and you just stand there till they pass out

Free speech and free enterprise. Both can have consequences - seems most people forget that there are no guarantees about the consequences.

[Greenlight]

Learned to shoot a .22 and destroy clay pigeons in Boy Scouts. It was a common sight to see loaded shotguns on racks in my high school friends' pickup trucks. Learned to put a bullet in a bullseye @ 300 yards at Basic Training. Have a shotgun and a pistol for personal protection. That said, I wasn't aware that the 2A required anyone or everyone to own and love guns, or require stores to sell them. My own interpretation of the 2A is that the founding fathers had enough common sense to know that technology would continue to refine products, and that Americans should always be free to own the same class and caliber of arms that would be used against them. Still, my gander isn't got by anyone who refuses to own, carry, load, unload, buy, sell, or borrow a gun or pistol.

I see plenty of knives in the REI web site. How many people die from knife wounds each year? I see REI doing nothing to stop that.

The reality is that REI jumped on the band wagon to influence change that really has very little impact - accept for law abiding citizens. It's clear from the other posters that I am not the only one put off by REIs grandstanding for a few political points. They have created this monster and I'm kinda enjoying the backlash I'm seeing. Sorta reminds me of a kid holding their breath demanding action and you just stand there till they pass out

Free speech and free enterprise. Both can have consequences - seems most people forget that there are no guarantees about the consequences.

[Sarcasm the elf]

https://www.runnersworld.com/general...vf-corporation

Well ****balls... VF corp strikes again.

“The acquisition of the Altra brand is another example of our efforts to reshape and evolve our portfolio of powerful brands to align with our enterprise value creation model,” said Steve Rendle, chairman, president and chief executive officer of VF Corporation, in a press release. “The active outdoor and performance sector is a large and attractive growth space. The addition of the Altra brand brings to VF a unique and differentiated technical footwear brand and a capability that when applied across VF’s outdoor footwear, direct-to-consumer, and international platforms will serve as a catalyst for growth.”

'Enterprise value creation model'... That's some Greenwa$$$hing right thar I tell you wyat.

Guess time to look at those Topo's more seriously.

Gotta love the PR language; apparently they weren’t interested in a company or a product, they bought it as a “brand.” That mentality probably goes some way towards explaining why the TNF shell jacket I bought in the ‘90’s is still going strong, , but the one I bought in recent years barely lasted a couple seasons.

[rickb]

The bicycle (bought at REI) was not to blame.

Good point.

Perhaps your way of thinking extends to other legal products?

[Just Bill]

Gotta love the PR language; apparently they weren’t interested in a company or a product, they bought it as a “brand.” That mentality probably goes some way towards explaining why the TNF shell jacket I bought in the ‘90’s is still going strong, , but the one I bought in recent years barely lasted a couple seasons.

I sold many a Mountain/Mountain Guide jacket then. Truly was the best in the business at that time. Late 90's was about when they were sold to VFcorp... course Doug Thompkins sold it in the late 60's so not exactly the original company at that point either...
Interestingly the company that first bought it pimped out the name too, before circling back and redeveloping the core gear to save the brand so they could sell it.
VF corp hasn't quite mastered that lesson but they too have been working on repairing TNF in recent years.

No big secret you can get townies to buy $30 hats, $40 t-shirts and $100 sweatshirts with a good brand. But once you lose the dirtbags you lose the posers too.
Patagonia seems to have never forgotten that.

Nothing wrong with having a brand so long as you remember what made it one in the first place. Lotta people cry about Patagucci 'selling out', but I'm perfectly happy with how they spend the money they get from posers and urban outfitters crowd.... it's just good business.

I'm perfectly happy with the badass core stuff they develop too, especially when I have enough patience to wait for the 50% off sales.

Altra... probably got a few years until it gets absorbed into the collective.
Resistance is futile since the borg run VF corp.

[nsherry61]

Good point.
Perhaps your way of thinking extends to other legal products?

And, just like REI offers free classes on riding bicycles safely and donates profits to organizations to lobby to promote safer bicycle riding infrastructure, I don't think it is out of line for gun manufactures and retailers to accept that they are also part of a gun owning community. And, and profiting members of that community, I don't think expecting them to put forth some effort and investment to contribute constructively to the conversation about gun safety out of line. . . and, asking Vista Outdoor to "outline a clear plan of action" to address gun safety issues is NOT in any way suggesting what that outline must contain, just that some effort and ownership of a plan needs to be taken. That is not anti-2A from what I read.

[Just Bill]

Learned to shoot a .22 and destroy clay pigeons in Boy Scouts. It was a common sight to see loaded shotguns on racks in my high school friends' pickup trucks. Learned to put a bullet in a bullseye @ 300 yards at Basic Training. Have a shotgun and a pistol for personal protection. That said, I wasn't aware that the 2A required anyone or everyone to own and love guns, or require stores to sell them. My own interpretation of the 2A is that the founding fathers had enough common sense to know that technology would continue to refine products, and that Americans should always be free to own the same class and caliber of arms that would be used against them. Still, my gander isn't got by anyone who refuses to own, carry, load, unload, buy, sell, or borrow a gun or pistol.

Good point.

Perhaps your way of thinking extends to other legal products?

Most outdoor folks have a background in scouts, military, or simply in country living. Most of us own tools.

Most reasonable gun owners do not buy into the 'dangers to the 2nd amendment' line either.

Outdoors folks on both sides need to find a reasonable stance that reflects the reasonable and moderate views of it's customers. We all need each other.

Gun owners who are not so reasonable will need to find some sort of compromise position.... simply enforcing current laws may be plenty.
There is zero reason for a responsible gun owner to not abide by a background check, licensed dealer sales, and 72 waiting period. An age restriction bump to 21 across the board seems reasonable too.

Selling guns at a trumped up flea market and calling it a 'gun show' protected by your rights isn't really a great argument... and just as bad a PR disaster as REI's quasi ban in the eyes of gun detractors.
When I got some whino to buy me beer in the parking lot before I was 21 I certainly wasn't excising my right to drink beer. Bout the only argument I buy is that a dealer sale/transfer costs money; so I'd be happy to support you in demanding that the government pay that fee to your local gun shop. Lot better deal than you'd get when you sell a car.

High capacity clips and so called weapons of war... that's a gun nut problem. Much like REI; gun folks stepped in their own pile of poop they need to figure out.
People don't really care about the semantics or technicalities; on either side.

When one side adopts an extreme position, it stands to reason an opposite side will arise with an equally extreme position.

Unfortunately the extreme side of the gun lobby has to give a little for this to die down at this point.
Or moderate folks like me will just have to wait for all the boomers to literally develop cold dead hands and the very fired up youngsters will hit 18 and vote the crap out of my reasonable gun rights too.

REI has 20% more members than the NRA. Guess what? Apparently REI is only recently aware of that fact.

Straight from wikipedia- "Millennials have surpassed Baby Boomers as the nation's largest living generation, according to population estimates released this month by the U.S. Census Bureau. Millennials, whom we define as those ages 18-34 in 2015, now number 75.4 million, surpassing the 74.9 million Baby Boomers (ages 51-69)"


I'd advise any gun folks to passionately advocate for something reasonable, rather than to continue building the opposition into an increasingly growing coalition driven to extremes in response.
If nothing else... the numbers are not looking good. Nobody wants your guns... yet.

Guess what? When they do it won't be your guns, it will be mine.


Personally I'd prefer a little moderation, to move on, and for outdoors folks of all types to get together with these youngsters who also want to fix the planet they are on.
Can't really blame them not participating in that issue when they are busy figuring out if they will live long enough to make it to the voting booth.

As anyone who posts on this forum knows; fears of things, real or imagined, tend to dominate peoples minds.
Being in a mass shooting at school is now statistically more likely than being eaten by bears, killed by snakes, stung by bees or any of the countless horrors that face you on the trail.
So perfectly reasonable to me for these newbies to be 'packing their fears' too.
So it's a bit silly to even try to dismiss those fears when a few practical steps can be taken to remove them and get them out on into the world.

Outdoors people are the ones with the ability to reach out to someone and calm unreasonable fears who have a unique perspective on what's really important.
To advise on some practical steps to take, reasonable precautions and minimum standards of safety.
The ability to walk a trail, take responsibility, and maintain a level head in the face of changing conditions.

[Uncle Joe]

Nobody wants your guns... yet.

Plenty of people in these protests shout just that. It's not "extreme" to think they want to take away gun ownership when they're actually shouting it.

[Just Bill]

Plenty of people in these protests shout just that. It's not "extreme" to think they want to take away gun ownership when they're actually shouting it.

Obummer was violently seizing them last I heard too... I'd take this crowd much more seriously- which is my point.

Fringes on both sides.
It wouldn't take much, certainly nothing unreasonable, to placate the more moderate 'extremists'.
Things die down and the extreme gun nut can go back to screaming at the extreme anti-gun nut in the corner where they have always been.

Get rid of the very small and vocal minority on each side and we are on the same page.
Let this keep running until even moderates join the extreme... and it's simple running of numbers that indicates odds are not in favor of guns.

Do something before something is done for you.
A few little things and we are done debating if a dressed up .22 is an assault weapon or not.
Do nothing and dig in again...
Urban population has passed rural population.
Millenials have passed boomers.
Hunting is on the decline as is the number of actual gun owners (not guns owned).
I'm 40, most kids my age fired a gun at some point. That is no longer the case for most 20 year olds.
Most people simply don't shoot guns, let alone own them, let alone feel passionately enough about them to vote on the issue.

Many people know people affected by gun violence. Most people know kids, or even own a few. They feel passionately enough to vote on the issue.

My wife's uncle shot himself. She hates guns because someone committed suicide with one and damaged her family.
Is that a rational or reasoned position? Nope. Do I wave my guns around or force her to comply with my position. Nope.
Was she at a PTA meeting about guns in schools- yep. No previous political interest, barely a voting record. But guns... and kids. It doesn't take much for passion to turn to action these days.

Give it a decade and you may find indeed that the second amendment is in danger. People don't really care about giving up something they don't even own. Folks will simply say... you had your chance.
It won't be that anyone takes your guns... it will turn out you simply gave em up by refusing to have any reasonable dialogue on an issue where numbers now put you in the minority.

Nobody feels bad about that person on their 4th DUI losing their licence... if things continue public sentiment on this issue won't be too far behind.


Don't put too much faith in rational debate and reason or a 200+ year old document.

You could easily see half the electorate wiped off the map simply based upon public outrage. Idiots on both sides of the isle gain a majority, do something dumb, pat themselves on the back... and then people get mad again and the outrage machine fires up on the other side. I would not be shocked to see something even more dramatic happen this flip of the voting lever.

A rationale, reasonable gun owner might want to check the wind and realize they are going to miss this last shot.

[devoidapop]

Plenty of people in these protests shout just that. It's not "extreme" to think they want to take away gun ownership when they're actually shouting it.

Obummer was violently seizing them last I heard too...

True story. My cousin's neighbor's brother got his guns taken away before they sent him to a FEMA camp.

[Feral Bill]

Hot button issues (guns, immigration, abortion, etc) inevitably generate nonsense arguments on all sides. I find this vexing, especially when people on my side go completely off the rails. When I come up with a solution to this, Whiteblazers will be the first to know.