Kudos to REI for Sustainability
One always has to be wary of greenwashing, but this report of REI’s latest sustainability initiative is encouraging:
Here is a link:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/re...nda-2018-04-10
More detail here:
https://www.rei.com/assets/stewardsh...dards/live.pdf
They should come out with a line called “Quack Myre” from recycled swamp trash.
I love how these companies preach helping the environment. Then, you walk into these huge stores with air conditioners roaring, lights blaring, sucking up all sorts of electricity. Just think how much gasoline REI uses every day shipping their products across the country. If these little things make them feel better, fine I guess. They don't really practice what they preach.
You have to keep in mind that they are also a business, and in the end, need to make money and be competitive and attract new customers. If you are worried about the gas they spend on shipping, I think you have unrealistic expectations of what a large business can do. Would you suggest bicycle delivery cross country? I do agree, however, that large buildings could probably utilize solar panels and such in order to minimize use of public electric power supply. But that would be up to the owner of the building, not the company using the space.Originally Posted by Tundracamper
That proves my point. They come across as saving the world - so long as it sells product. In the end, not so much really changes. Plus, they have big political slants and aren't shy about voicing those. I don't do business with them any more. But, that's JMHO.
Thanks Rick
Shipping solutions are more Elon Musk... buy a Tesla if that is your concern so he can roll out his electric semi faster.
Ironically mail order is much more environmentally friendly than brick and mortar shopping generally speaking. USPS or your carrier of choice is already driving the route, the impact of adding your package to the route is much lower than you driving to the store in your own vehicle.
Overall, this policy appears to be similar to Patagonia's.
Patagonia was the first to prove that green business is green $$$$.
Some stuff is greenwashing, but in the case of what's been happening is not. By far the sewn goods industry is a polluter on a massive scale, as well as a pretty serious human rights violator. It was relatively quite, but even companies like Wal-Mart have worked with Patagonia to clean up their supply chain.
I just received three rolls of fabric from Ripstop by the Roll for my teeny tiny nobody hammock business.
Those rolls of fabric were bluesign approved.
When once a year I buy a few hundred yards of Primaloft Gold... I was granted access to and encouraged to buy Primaloft Gold Econ series.
I am a NOBODY... with zero purchasing power. I would have zero ability to source these products no matter how desperately I hug a tree, let my yellow mellow, screw in LED's or install solar panels.
When a company like Patagonia uses their market muscle to dictate how the supply chain will operate... it eventually makes no sense for a supplier to have multiple standards.
When a retailer like REI chooses to follow suit and demand that all of their suppliers comply with these standards... eventually there will be zero incentive for any sewn goods shop, fabric mill, or material supplier to not comply.
It means that some ahole nobody like me sewing a few hammocks has no option but to purchase fabric with environmentally friendly manufacturing and insulation with nearly 50% recycled content.
Even if I have zero concern for the environment I have no choice but to comply as they are effectively reshaping the entire market.
What most fail to understand is that all this stuff ends up at the same places. The world is not quite the big place we imagine. I have had products sewn at a facility that Patagonia also hired in Chicago.
My fabric (and nearly all the cottage guys and even most of the big boys) comes from the same mill. So when you MYOG hammock or pack, buy cottage, or buy patagucci... all of it is now shifting to Bluesign approved simply due to the fact that Patagonia shops at that fabric mill too.
This is what those who preach the power of the market, or the power of capitalism speak of. That free markets, not government policy causes change.
This is not greenwashing or feel good policy.
This is hard money with enough spending power to change the entire global supply chain.
Money talks, bull**** walks.
It took a long time for environmental people to sort that out. Business only talks to business. Politicians only talk to lobbyists.
This is not bull**** feel good protests or cheap ads. This is cranky old Yvon and his long shadow in the industry starting to reach out and beat em at their own game with cold hard cash.
If you have to buy stuff- buy it from these folks. You don't even need to vote, protest, or do anything. You don't even have to think or try.
Just consume as requested... they aren't preaching, there are no shareholders to please, no bottom line to protect.
Ironically, unlike many corporations folks support, what they plan to do with it is exactly what they say they will do; make concrete changes on a global scale.
They are taking your money and doing what they want with it.
The good ol American way.
They are changing the world, which isn't free, which does require selling a product. Many bemoan whining crybabies who simply demand action with no participation or nothing to contribute. Other than spending your (post tax) dollars to purchase these goods... none of your tax money is required to implement their agenda. Normally the profits go to lobbyists to remove 'impediments' to capital gains like pesky environmental regulations. In this case they are simply investing the profit into taking care of it themselves; globally.
Nobody respects people who do not 'do for themselves'. Damn right they need to sell stuff and pay their own way. Otherwise they will have zero respect.
As fer political slants... REI's recent boycott of Vista outdoors was a mistake. I'd not suggest throwing out the baby with the bathwater just yet though.
This newfound 'power' the outdoor industry is flexing is bound to have some missteps and that was a big one. One folks involved seem to have understood.
Yvon Choinard is a longtime angler and responsible sportsman.
More and more I find bushcraft or hunting videos pop up involving folks starting to understand that outdoor related goods are valid components in the kit's they assemble. I watched a lengthy review and expert video from a hunting store on the design and features of an Arc'teryx jacket the other day. I talked to Dave Canterbury in a thread on facebook in a hammock forums group. He's been out and participating in group hangs. Things are blending and overlapping rapidly.
More and more responsible gun owners are disenfranchised with the NRA.
Hunting is in decline, bushcraft is on the rise... and the overlap with environmentalists has never been more complete. You can't hunt, fish or shoot if there is not land available. You can't consume anything from land that is destroyed or polluted. Eco-systems in jeopardy will not sustain sportsman.
An overwhelming majority of Americans support responsible gun ownership, environmental protections, and responsible land use and preservation.
If hunters, anglers, shooting sports, bushcrafters, hikers, bikers, birders, campers, RV users and the dozens of other groups were to form a coalition. If we get beyond red or blue... it would be the single largest political party in the country.
Moves like the Vista outdoor ban don't help, but there are many other encouraging signs going on in all these groups. There are some obvious hurdles between conservative america and liberal Seattle based REI. Some large compromises will need to be made on both sides.
My hope is that at some point we will all realize that we enjoy this earth we live on. Most of us are not at either extreme... any of us who claims to have spent time on a trail like the AT should understand that given the chance... nearly anyone of us can sit down around a fire together and find common purpose.
Should that happen then yes... saving the world is exactly how it will play out in my not so humble opinion.
I don't really see any other options truth be told.
Just Bill makes points I would have brought up. In today's world PETA (Which I support) would raise H LL about the Pony Express.
Blackheart
WELL SPELLED OUT! Very good points!!!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can fully understand how these little announcements look like another white paper to placate environmentalists or something for a company to stroke the fragile egos of it's customers to improve the bottom line... a cheap way to take the moral high ground with all fluff and no substance.
Just to clarify a point above...
There are some truly altruistic things that happen 'behind the scenes'.
PrimaLoft partners with various vendors (as do companies like Polartec and many fabric mills) to develop proprietary materials. These materials typically come with some market restrictions and exclusivity period.
Fair enough... as it costs money for R&D that any business would like to capitalize on. Sometimes that investment is truly massive.
I am an authorized sewn goods manufacturer of Primaloft products, but that doesn't make me Patagonia.
For many years Primaloft Gold was an exclusive product. Thermoball (the north face) is still off limits to me, but I can buy the Gold Eco Down blend (thermoball and down basically.)
I have zero access to Plumafill and don't expect to for a good 5-7 years.
I am not privy to any top secret info; but it is very rare for a company to willingly give up any competitive advantage. It would be in character to see a big marketing campaign about Patagonia introducing exclusive insulation in one of the most popular synthetic jackets on the market that went from zero to 55% recycled content. A way to stand out and tug on customers heart strings to sell a jacket.
Woulda been real world results, good marketing, good business, and even a bit of greenwashing if you wanted to be cynical about it. A real win financially that is in line with a company that believes in putting it's money where their mouth is and reaping the profits.
However within 6 months of Patagonia announcing that they were switching the entire line of Primaloft Gold products to the Eco line... everyone in the entire global supply chain down to little ol me could buy it.
No announcement, no BS. Just a huge company eliminating more than half of the virgin material required to produce synthetic insulation FOR EVERY VENDOR ON THE PLANET. This is because they constantly go back to their suppliers to demand that they do better. Because they have been doing these things for decades and proving it works.
I paid absolutely zero for this 'marketing opportunity', and Patagonia makes zero when I build a quilt.
I paid nothing, asked for nothing, did no work or research. Besides this insulation, suddenly I have Bluesign approved fabric showing up at my door now as well.
Simply because a company chose to examine their supply chain and do the right thing.
I also notice that this year the Nano-Puff comes with 100% recycled shell and lining now as well.
Maybe at some point my fabric rolls will be 100% recycled as well.
Never BS a BS'er. I'm a professional bullsharter.
Is there a writer generating copy, a slick video, a nice advertisement... for sure. That's the cost of doing business and attracting consumer's attention.
Look past that though and there is real world, real things and some truly altruistic benefits to the world.
Patagonia made a splash with an ad- 'Don't buy this Jacket'.
I agree with the sentiment.
But when the time comes to buy a piece of gear then I strongly suggest you buy from them.
IF REI can follow that example, a large portion of the industry will be forced to follow Patagonia's lead- globally. There is a potential that little PDF is more powerful than most legislation our government could ever pass.
http://www.patagonia.com/product/men...&start=1&sz=24
Just Bill,
Good post.
I was not aware of REI’s boycott of Vista Outdoors.
Really sucks, because I rather liked shopping there and respect their decision to offer products conforming to these new sustainability initiatives.
The problem is they're boycotting Vista purely because Vista didn't make a statement about the Parkland shooting. There was a good article about the relationship between the hunting industry and conservation and how this could drop a wedge in that. here
You can be for things like sustainability without shutting out people who might disagree with you politically. At least, you used to be able to.
gotta love that very last sentence in the article.
https://www.outsideonline.com/229079...s-doomed-start
https://www.outdoorlife.com/think-be...-vista-outdoor
Two decent articles.
As mentioned... baby/bathwater problem still I think. Technically REI only suspended it's orders. They haven't severed ties completely.
Boycott is the wrong word, and with headlines and reactionary media cycles it's an area much more grey than it appears.
Patagonia has been doing this stuff for a LONG time. You need to have a few things explode in your face before you learn.
REI made a passing bandwagon leap that was ill advised but the opportunity to revisit the gut reaction and come out okay is still there.
I still think that all parties will come out better for it and the news cycle has already moved on.
It seems to be more of a media snafu than a real problem. A public relations issue... probably.
Patagonia has a history of carefully reviewing their position, coming up with a plan and implementing it.
Even the 'President stole your land' thing was not the impulsive leap it appeared to be. They are good at what they do, and as a result don't get burned.
REI probably lost some customers and hopefully will learn from getting emotional.
It's okay to get political, but much easier to do so when coming from a decades old company still owned by an individual with deep and steady convictions.
I think what it might highlight... is how many 'Brands' are not brands at all.
This little scandal did reveal how many products fall under the 'Vista' umbrella.
VF Corp is another monster. https://www.vfc.com/brands/all-brands
Most don't realize when you head to the local store for a backpack and hum and drum between Eastpak, Jansport, Eagle Creek, or even The North Face that all you are doing is choosing which tag VF corp put on the pack.
An astute observer may even note that in many stores that these are literally the only brands on the shelf...
Violently debating Icebreaker vs Smartwool on Whiteblaze? No worries... VF corp wins your dollar either way.
Think you're pulling a fast one and buying the wally world or Amazon knock-off? Odds are decent it's still under the umbrella someplace and the only fast one is on you.
Those are the mega conglomerate companies a small business like Patagonia is competing with.
It's hard for folks like me who try to even keep track of who owns who and how. Altra shoes has been bought and sold... twice.
Companies like Vista and VF corp go out of their way to confuse consumers.
https://www.runnersworld.com/general...vf-corporation
Well ****balls... VF corp strikes again.
“The acquisition of the Altra brand is another example of our efforts to reshape and evolve our portfolio of powerful brands to align with our enterprise value creation model,” said Steve Rendle, chairman, president and chief executive officer of VF Corporation, in a press release. “The active outdoor and performance sector is a large and attractive growth space. The addition of the Altra brand brings to VF a unique and differentiated technical footwear brand and a capability that when applied across VF’s outdoor footwear, direct-to-consumer, and international platforms will serve as a catalyst for growth.”
'Enterprise value creation model'... That's some Greenwa$$$hing right thar I tell you wyat.
Guess time to look at those Topo's more seriously.
REI has demonstrated their commitment for the out of doors for decades. They are among the leaders in retail in several areas of sustainability including how they create and use energy in their stores and Distribution Centers. They are in business for their members, but they seem to do things the right way. Everyone has a choice of where to shop, but I have always thought they connected well to a very broad base of outdoor enthusiasts.
As for shipping impacts on the environment, unless you expect all food and products to be sourced locally, see the stone age, there is going to be transportation of goods to support commerce. The good news is that many of the innovative environmentally forward transportation/shipping trends are also good for the bottom line.
I'm a backpacker, paddler, mountain biker, you name it outdoors, and have probably spent thousands with REI over the years, but with them going anti-2A, they will never see another dime from me. I'll gladly take my money to other businesses, like Hill People Gear and others, who respect the Constitution.
You'd better read REI's statement a little more carefully if you think they are going anti-2A. They are absolutely suggesting that gun violence needs to be addressed by the industry that profits from gun sales. But, they very carefully skirted any suggestion about how that gun violence needed to be addressed. If you think demanding an effort to address the harm your products are doing is somehow immoral or that, by default it means banning those products, I think you'd better rethink your perspective!
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
REI proffits is greatly from the sale of Bicycles.
With the many hundreds of people killed on bikes each year — including no small number of school children — and the 10s of thousands more who suffer injury, one wonders if they are doing enough to support their own safety initiative in that arena.
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