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  1. #1
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    Default Steep parts of AT

    I thought the thread "Any specific training to help with knee pain from descents " was a good one and didn't want to hijack the post so I will ask my question here for those who have been there;

    In your estimation, what percentage of the trail is more than a 45 degree (just an arbitrary number) incline or decline? I want to hike it next year and my weakness is my left knee. I had a torn meniscus about 15 years ago which was corrected with surgery. I also had a cortisone shot a year ago which also helped greatly. I am walking 5-10 miles several times a week with 30 lbs in my pack. I'm not a runner but I can jog 3 miles or so on my treadmill with no problems. My stamina and legs are definitely getting stronger. Watching YouTube videos I see lots of level ground and slight inclines which would be no problem. So being concerned about what I would be facing, how much of the trail is actually step ascents and descents that would test my knee? Many thanks.

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    Of the almost 2200 miles I bet that about 1 or 2 % is 45 degrees. Most people can name the bad ones for North bounders like the Priest in Va, into Port Clinton Pa, the trail into Bennington Vt, the north side of Mousselaki, Webter cliff, Pinkham, Madison, Baxter Peak. It's different for South Bounders.

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    much like the recent thread about measuring distance and the idea of something like the "coastline paradox" someone brought up, it all depends on perspective.

    how often does one encounter, lets say 3 feet, to pick an arbitrary reasonable constant, that exceeds 45 degrees? often.

    how often does one lets say 1/2 a mile, to pick another, that exceeds 45 degrees?

    i'm going to go out on a very small limb and say never once.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCC1701 View Post
    In your estimation, what percentage of the trail is more than a 45 degree (just an arbitrary number) incline or decline?
    None, if that much. OK, maybe a few feet somewhere in Mahoosuc Notch.

    A 45 degree incline is a 100% grade - one unit of "rise" during one unit of "run." You would climb one mile for every mile of horizontal distance. No hiking trail is that steep.

    The climb from Crawford Notch to Mt. Webster (3,910 feet of elevation gain in 4.7 miles) is an average 15.7% grade, equivalent to about a 9 degree incline.

    The climb from Davenport Gap to Mt. Cammerer (3,075 feet of elevation gain in 5.2 miles) is an average 11% grade, equivalent to about a 6 degree incline.

    Another poster recently posted that the average incline is around 9%, or an incline of 5.1 degrees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnacraft View Post
    A 45 degree incline is a 100% grade - one unit of "rise" during one unit of "run." You would climb one mile for every mile of horizontal distance. No hiking trail is that steep.
    is there even anywhere on the tral that rises over 5K feet in lets say2 miles? or 2500 feet in half a mile? i dont believe there is. those would be halfway to 45 degrees.

    i mentioned it in the other thread, to no avail- we think the trail is like this because we look at vertically exaggerated elevation profiles. an elevation profile without any such exaggeration would be a nearly flat line and useless, which is why the exaggeration is applied.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    is there even anywhere on the tral that rises over 5K feet in lets say2 miles? or 2500 feet in half a mile? i dont believe there is. those would be halfway to 45 degrees.
    Isn't there an aluminum ladder somewhere in Massachusetts? Because that's what we're talking about. 45 degrees is even steeper than what's code for a staircase.

    The Mt. Washington Cog Railroad averages about 25% grade. I once walked up the path next to the bottom portion (from the base station to the first water tank), and that's far steeper than any trail I've ever hiked.

    The South Kaibab Trail was engineered for a very stable incline - it's about 13%. The upper North Kaibab is about the same. Ditto the Baxter Creek trail to Mt. Sterling in GSMNP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnacraft View Post
    Isn't there an aluminum ladder somewhere in Massachusetts? Because that's what we're talking about. 45 degrees is even steeper than what's code for a staircase.
    maybe, as well as elsewhere. hence my point that if measuring in very short distances you can find near vertical spots, but not over any sort of distance.

    i think the real question the OP is asking without knowing is something like this- what areas of the trail have the highest concentration of short distances (as in 5 ft or less) where the grade exceeds 45 degrees?

    i have no idea howd you'd actually measure such a thing or what amount of concentration would make something feel especially steep.

    for the record, the steepest trail i've ever walked on is actually a short side trail off of the AT- the devil's pulpit trail in lehigh gap. i dont think it is even 1/4" a mile long, but it is very near to climb straight down and back up again. on several occasions i used the trees growing alongside the trail as a ladder. it may be something like a 30 or 35% incline.


    btw, my above post should read 2500 in 1 mile, not 1/2.

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    I imagine the cumulative frequency of daily hiking will likely test that knee more than any steep climbs or descents. Wear a orthopedic knee brace for more stability.
    Getting lost is a way to find yourself.

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    this post covers this subject quite well and also covers the pct and cdt...

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    http://www.guthookhikes.com/2015/01/...t-and-pct.html

    it would help if i added the link dammit

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    Katahdin is the single largest elevation gain on the AT at 4188 feet in 5.3 miles. Most of that is in the middle 3 mile section. The first and last miles are very gentle slopes. Steep hiking here in NH and Maine is 1000ft elevation gain per mile. What's that? 1/5 slope? 20% roughly? Thats when you really know the trail is steep. There are sections that are steeper, but that's not really hiking, its non-technical climbing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
    http://www.guthookhikes.com/2015/01/...t-and-pct.html

    it would help if i added the link dammit
    HAH that reminds me of an argument i had with someone on here over whether or the climb up garfield was difficult or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    HAH that reminds me of an argument i had with someone on here over whether or the climb up garfield was difficult or not.
    Really depends on how fast you want to go :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    Really depends on how fast you want to go :-)
    if one puts any credence into this way of breaking it down, garfield and south twin back to back may just be the hardest section of the AT of a few miles or so. i dont think thats one very many people name when someone does the "whats the hardest section of the AT" thread every so often.

    i'm glad to see nothing between grafton notch and rangeley landed anywhere in sight. i would have really started to believe i had somehow blocked that hike from my memory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    Steep hiking here in NH and Maine is 1000ft elevation gain per mile. What's that? 1/5 slope? 20% roughly?
    Pretty close - 18.9%, 10.9 degree incline.

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    I guess my "45 degree" question was a bit vague.
    From what I get from all the posts, you are saying that there are inclines and declines of different degree but certainly not steep enough to suggest that I just stay home and forget it.
    I will continue my training. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCC1701 View Post
    I guess my "45 degree" question was a bit vague.
    From what I get from all the posts, you are saying that there are inclines and declines of different degree but certainly not steep enough to suggest that I just stay home and forget it.
    I will continue my training. Thanks
    i think the point is more that "steep" is all very relative.

    and also that it is not as steep as one may think.

    thats not by any means to imply that since none of the trail is steeper than 45 degrees that none of it is steep or that it is all easy.

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    Lets not forget that a long (2-10 mile) 10% down grade can seriously beat you up if you let it.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

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    Very little like 100% grade except for stairsteps and ladders.

    In hiking , 1000 '/mile is pretty steep. 2000'/mile is very taxing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Lets not forget that a long (2-10 mile) 10% down grade can seriously beat you up if you let it.
    We hiked down off the Priest a few weeks ago. Five miles of steep down. I was more beat up by that descent than I was coming down Katahdin. The Priest is a Beast!

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