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Thread: Base Weight

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoRoads View Post
    I'm seriously considering the Zpacks ArcBlast AND the Solplex tent
    I returned a Solplex and bought an Altaplex instead. Just not enough room in the Solplex for me (6'1", 185).. a weight penalty I'm OK with
    I opted for the Arc Haul vs Arc Blast, a weight penalty, but the Haul fabric is more robust and can take more abuse.
    There comes a point of diminishing returns, and I want to be comfortable #1 (my pad is a BA Q-Core SLX wide...far from the lightest pad, but pretty darn cushy for its weight!)

    I could see myself going stoveless on short trips, but not a thru.

  2. #42
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    Your points on the tent and pack are well-taken. I looked at the other packs, even to looking at the two zippered ones, and between the ArcBlast and the ArcHaul, I'm torn. I do like the added durability as a trade for the 3 extra ounces. I don't think I need the extra volume, but I could easily be underestimating that, especially considering my 22 pound total weight is SUMMER weight, and during my 10-day hike in mid-April, I had 5 extra pieces of layers. As far as the tent, the extra 6 inches in width with the AltaPlex would be welcome as a trade-off for the 2 extra ounces. I don't think I need the extra height as much as the extra width being nice. So I'm weighing the differences and hoping to be able to see some of the Zpacks product line at Trail Days in Damascus (they will be there).

  3. #43
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    Years ago when I was a tike I read a book by Earl Shaffer. I since have adopted similar practices with newer gear. Multi-purposing gear is a great way to cut back on the weight. Modifying your gear to save weight is also a tactic many ULer's use. I by no means am a gram weenie; more of an ounce weenie.
    I went to a Gossamer Silverback vs my GG VC 60 to save more than a pound. Have many quilts and sleeping bags all varying in weight. Western Mountaineering has a 32* bag weighing in at 19.1oz. Mountain Laurel Designs has a synthetic quilt coming in at 21oz. I have synthetic and down alike for different seasons and locations. Surprisingly I have synthetic quilts and jackets that are real close to the weight of down.
    My base weight when hiking solo is 9.67lbs and with my wife it climbs to just over 10lbs. In the winter my base weight goes up depending on the terrain and conditions. Am I carrying skies, snowshoes, crampons and/or mountaineering boots etc.
    Total weight also varies with the season drastically for me. Winter conditions and higher elevations usually means lots more food. I usually only carry a liter at a time on the AT but out west sometimes you got to "camel up". Occasionally on the AT "cameling up" is good practice too. Water gets a bit scarce in places. Treat or not to treat? Sometimes I carry drops and sometimes I carry a Sawyer.
    To Summarize, you can only carry so much and what you carry can only perform/comfort you so much. In order to decide what your comfort/weight limit is it will take many years of practice and lots of discipline. Shorter outings doesn't mean you should be packing more weight. Always work on the discipline part of it and stick to your gear lists.
    "I choose to carry very little, but that little is chosen with care." Earl V. Shaffer

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    I might be really mistaken, but what I think matters is what you weight "skin out." Please, bear with me: take your total weight with all hiking stuff and minus your naked body. That is the skin out weight. Now, I realize this will change in different seasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shelb View Post
    I might be really mistaken, but what I think matters is what you weight "skin out." Please, bear with me: take your total weight with all hiking stuff and minus your naked body. That is the skin out weight. Now, I realize this will change in different seasons.
    Of course it matters that why it was coined.. as another tool.

    But it doesn't tell you anything about where your pack is in relation to the comfortable carry weight of it does it? So it's not the only tool you need.

    In fact it's a very marginal tool for an individual, except when comparing heavy clunker boots and winter clothes to summer shorts and trail runners, where several pounds of clothing is added. In most cases it's not very much of a difference ever for warm weather clothing, for a single person. What they tend to wear is, what they tend to wear. And what someone else wears doesn't matter.


    These items are tools to people that understand them.

    The rest of ignorant folks, just argue pointlessly about things that they have no understanding of. Most with the idea that it's all about bragging or some kind of b*******.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 06-23-2018 at 00:56.

  6. #46
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    These items are tools to people that understand them.


    +1

    And so often they're misunderstood and/or misapplied.





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    Quote Originally Posted by shelb View Post
    I might be really mistaken, but what I think matters is what you weight "skin out." Please, bear with me: take your total weight with all hiking stuff and minus your naked body. That is the skin out weight. Now, I realize this will change in different seasons.
    Of course this is true.

    I like it mainly because it "outs" the SUL poseurs who like to hide stuff in their pockets.

    Having looked at a bunch of gear lists, I'm getting a pretty good sense for spreadsheets that seem suspiciously incomplete. Almost always occurs when people claim a base weight that's just a tick under 5 lbs.

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    "These items are tools to people that understand them.

    The rest of ignorant folks, just argue pointlessly about things that they have no understanding of. Most with the idea that it's all about bragging or some kind of b*******."


    And then you have the know it all heavy haulers who have no desire or gear that could get them to a sub 10 pound pack so they belittle others and change the definition of base weight.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Of course this is true.

    I like it mainly because it "outs" the SUL poseurs who like to hide stuff in their pockets.

    Having looked at a bunch of gear lists, I'm getting a pretty good sense for spreadsheets that seem suspiciously incomplete. Almost always occurs when people claim a base weight that's just a tick under 5 lbs.
    Using chipmunk cheek pockets is legit super duper Ultralite guru approved . In fact my base weight is 9oz . Just the weight of the pack alone .

    weightless Thom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tents View Post


    And then you have the know it all heavy haulers who have no desire or gear that could get them to a sub 10 pound pack so they belittle others and change the definition of base weight.
    Hiking light, is about going faster and farther.
    It frees you from resupplies and restrictions at a slower Pace places on you.

    I would go as far to say
    That if someone's hiking 10 miles a day or less, they have no need to even concern themselves with base pack weight as it relates to UL. Their hurdle is probably not their pack weight either.
    From 15 to 20mpd being UL is a big help, with total pack weights under 25 for a long resupply.

    When you start getting up to 25 miles a day getting that ul weigh down into the five to seven pound range is very advantageous.total pack about 18-20 max

    And for targeting 30 miles a day..... Keep whole pack with resupply under 15. Pushing SUL.

    And if not hiking these kind of mileage , some really don't don't understand what the weights even mean, or why its important. But just go ahead and believe it's about bragging rights or such. Yeah a lot of newbies fall into this category when they try and put together a gear list having never hiked before.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 06-23-2018 at 12:36.

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    "And if you're not hiking these kind of mileage you really don't don't understand what the weights even mean, or why its important. But go ahead and believe it's about bragging rights or such."

    Well this is new. So if I do not hike far I need not attempt to carry less and its a long distance thing. Gee here I was thinking less on my back simply feels better. I don't understand important things? That's subjective. I did not realize I was not allowed to hike my own hike and enjoy putting together an ultralight kit.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tents View Post


    Well this is new. So if I do not hike far I need not attempt to carry less and its a long distance thing. Gee here I was thinking less on my back simply feels better. I don't understand important things? That's subjective. I did not realize I was not allowed to hike my own hike and enjoy putting together an ultralight kit.
    No one said you couldn't do whatever you wanted to do.

    But being ul and Hiking 10 miles a day is like driving a ferrari to the grocery story.
    Looks flashy, but that not what it designed for. If you only drive it 35, youll never really experience or understand it.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 06-23-2018 at 14:07.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    But being ul and Hiking 10 miles a day is like driving a ferrari to the grocery story.
    Looks flashy, but that not what it designed for. If you only drive it 35, youll never really experience or understand it.
    Yea but in the end I still get my groceries. Don't be in a hurry to condemn me cause I don't do what you do or think as you think or hike as fast or as far. Once you carry less its tough to go back to carrying more. There was a time when you didn't know the things you know today. Its all good. Just sayin. Peace, Two Tents

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Hiking light, is about going faster and farther.
    It frees you from resupplies and restrictions at a slower Pace places on you.

    I would go as far to say
    That if someone's hiking 10 miles a day or less, they have no need to even concern themselves with base pack weight as it relates to UL. Their hurdle is probably not their pack weight either.
    From 15 to 20mpd being UL is a big help, with total pack weights under 25 for a long resupply.

    When you start getting up to 25 miles a day getting that ul weigh down into the five to seven pound range is very advantageous.total pack about 18-20 max

    And for targeting 30 miles a day..... Keep whole pack with resupply under 15. Pushing SUL.

    And if not hiking these kind of mileage , some really don't don't understand what the weights even mean, or why its important. But just go ahead and believe it's about bragging rights or such. Yeah a lot of newbies fall into this category when they try and put together a gear list having never hiked before.
    Seriously MW, I know you have tremendous insight and knowledge to share with others but when you start saying that people fall into "this category" that is a bit condescending. Is there a secret handshake we also need to learn to be cool?

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    Many modern packs, including rather light ones, can hold quite heavy loads without discomfort. Until, of course, you start uphill and have to do literal work lifting the weight hundreds or thousands of feet. At that point, whether the weight is in the pack or worn does not matter, excepting the weight of footwear, which is worst of all. So, regardless of your mileage, it's FSO that matters. And it matters more with greater elevation gain. Base weight is not really that useful of a comparison tool.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Tents View Post
    Yea but in the end I still get my groceries. Don't be in a hurry to condemn me cause I don't do what you do or think as you think or hike as fast or as far. Once you carry less its tough to go back to carrying more. There was a time when you didn't know the things you know today. Its all good. Just sayin. Peace, Two Tents
    I'm UL pretty much all the time. I have a lot of really good UL gear. What am I supposed to do... buy heavy crap for shorter trips?
    I'm spoiled. I deserve it after a few decades carrying around the kitchen sink.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Many modern packs, including rather light ones, can hold quite heavy loads without discomfort. Until, of course, you start uphill and have to do literal work lifting the weight hundreds or thousands of feet. At that point, whether the weight is in the pack or worn does not matter, excepting the weight of footwear, which is worst of all. So, regardless of your mileage, it's FSO that matters. And it matters more with greater elevation gain. Base weight is not really that useful of a comparison tool.
    Base weight is where the "low hanging fruit" is found.

    Careful selection of shelter, sleep, cook, pack and clothing systems can lop off several pounds of weight and a huge amount of volume. That's all base weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheyou View Post
    Using chipmunk cheek pockets is legit super duper Ultralite guru approved . In fact my base weight is 9oz . Just the weight of the pack alone .

    weightless Thom
    Whoa! Got a link for those??

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Base weight is not really that useful of a comparison tool.
    It's still a useful metric, so long it as included all the clothing which will be carried most of the time. If you mostly hike in a t-shirt and shorts, that weight is insignificant in comparison to your overall body weight.

    You should always aim for the lowest pack weight you can manage for a given situation. A one or two night on the first day of Summer takes less gear then a week in April.
    Follow slogoen on Instagram.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post
    Base weight is where the "low hanging fruit" is found.

    Careful selection of shelter, sleep, cook, pack and clothing systems can lop off several pounds of weight and a huge amount of volume. That's all base weight.
    Clothing worn, which can be anywhere from a couple to several pounds is not counted as base weight. You still have to lug it.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

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