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Thread: Base Weight

  1. #1
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    Default Base Weight

    What is your ideal target for base weight (without food and water) and what is your not-to-exceed?

  2. #2

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    Depends on the time of year. Last 2 weeks I was at 16 base weight but I carried my full length 20 degree UQ (instead of a short 30 or 50 degree UQ), an extra Icebreaker shirt for sleeping and a slightly heavier hooded Down Jacket. (ended up being good decisions with the weather we had) From May to Sept I shoot for 12 pounds. With Food and water, I try to stay under 25 but have been up to 27 without any issues.

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    I have never hiked just carrying base weight, it's always total weight, which varies over time. It is that total weight in the field as used that really matters, not base weight. Concentrating on base weight ends up a game in semantics and that results in more weight carried IMHO. I have seen many examples of hikers carrying more total weight because they went after a lower base weight. For that reason I don't measure base weight.

    Ideal target total weight 11-19 lbs, not to exceed 27 unless I have to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoRoads View Post
    What is your ideal target for base weight (without food and water) and what is your not-to-exceed?
    That depends on time of year and where you are hiking. Bugs, no bugs, rain, no rain. Bear. Cannister, etc. Frequency of resupply, backup batt for phone, etc.

    Base weight is what your gear weighs sans food and water and fuel.

    When you know this you can calculate what your pack is going to weigh for any trip duration. And manage your resupplies to keep it under your desirable weight max.

    That's what it's for. Don't listen to people who tell you "oh I don't calculate base weight. " They simply don't have a clue. It's understanding what weighs what in your pack. How much your pack weighs. How much your food and water weigh. That's it. Pretty simple. Period. Duh.

    15 lb base, 5 days food at 1.8 lb/day, 2l max= 28.8 lb.
    10 lb base, 3 day food , 1L max = 17.6 lb .


    Im 7-8.5 base wt most of time without a bearcan excluding winter conditions.


    Not exceed? I don't think of it that way. I bring what I need. Only what I need for most part. What I need is what I need, out of gear I have. I'll bring rain gear regardless of whether I need it or not. It's a standard part of my kit. Actually, I bring several things that I rarely need. As well as luxury inflateable pad, bug net, etc.

    ,

    When it comes to " not exceed," then I'm looking at total pack wait between resupplies. That will affect the pack used. I prefer to stay 23 lb or less with food and water. This is about a week's worth of food with the normal base weight, and is 100+ miles at pretty easy pace. I don't worry about resupply ability until the range exceeds 150 miles. That's the beauty of having a low base wt., And ability to hike 20 mpd. I've got this itch to try 200 + miles without resupply sometime.....

    Others carry extra crap, heavy gear, and can barely manage 50 miles between resupplies. You can figure out for yourself which ones monitor their base weight and which ones don't.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-01-2018 at 06:35.

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    I have seen many examples of hikers carrying more total weight because they went after a lower base weight. For that reason I don't measure base weight.

    Huh? Sorry, I guess I'm 'dense' but I need an example of how this occurs so I can understand the thinking process here.

    If you mean that they end up putting stuff in their pockets so that it's not counted as pack weight, then I agree and call BS on that. I don't do that, and I'm sure that most experienced ULers would laugh at it. Folks who need to add stuff to their base mid-trip simply did not have their kit dialed in to start with.

    I personally have enough UL gear that I pick what I need for a trip and it is nearly always going to end up UL, or very nearly so, and it weighs what it weighs. If it's over 10 lbs, so be it — I've given things careful thought and assessed the chosen gear as necessary. And far more important is the experience of having used and tested it in a wide variety of conditions and knowing that it is adequate for a particular trip. I rarely, if ever, return from a trip not having used items that were packed.







    Last edited by cmoulder; 05-01-2018 at 06:58.

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    Back when I was concentrating on trying to reduce pack weight, my target base weight was ten pounds.

    My first long hike was the PCT, with a 15 pound base weight. I knew I could do better. I got it down to ten pounds for my CDT hike a few years later. Better clothing selection, going stoveless and using a seven-ounce silnylon pack finally broke the barrier. That felt great. (More important, though, was water and food management.)

    On my AT hike, it was eight pounds. At that point, the pack was almost negligible and I have never striven to lose more weight. I don't check it any more, but I know it's never more than ten pounds.

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    Summer base(>50*) is 8.75 lbs, fall/winter base(down to 20*) is 10.75 lbs. I don't have a max base weight, like others, I bring what I expect to need for the possibility of conditions.
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  8. #8

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    My total weight for my weeklong trip this july will be right at 15 lbs including 2 liters of water, 16 oz of Jack Daniels and food for 4 days
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
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    I haven't got my base weight dialed in yet. I would like to never carry more than 30 lbs. Hoping to keep it at 25 most of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmoulder View Post

    Huh? Sorry, I guess I'm 'dense' but I need an example of how this occurs so I can understand the thinking process here.

    If you mean that they end up putting stuff in their pockets so that it's not counted as pack weight, then I agree and call BS on that. I don't do that, and I'm sure that most experienced ULers would laugh at it. Folks who need to add stuff to their base mid-trip simply did not have their kit dialed in to start with.

    I personally have enough UL gear that I pick what I need for a trip and it is nearly always going to end up UL, or very nearly so, and it weighs what it weighs. If it's over 10 lbs, so be it — I've given things careful thought and assessed the chosen gear as necessary. And far more important is the experience of having used and tested it in a wide variety of conditions and knowing that it is adequate for a particular trip. I rarely, if ever, return from a trip not having used items that were packed.







    Putting stuff in the pockets is part of it and I've seen it happen. But other things, swapping consumable weight for base weight savings. Perhaps the one most overlooked and the heaviest item is water treatment. On paper Aquamira may look good as far as base weight, but not total weight carried, which includes water weight. The amount of water one carries has to do with how convenient it is to make it and in what quantities, and how much water is expected.

    If water is frequent, such as the AT, it makes sense to carry a method that is easy to make small quantities, and drink most of that at the water source. Aquamira users can't do that, they need contact time, which means carrying the water they need (unless they stop there, but on the AT that could easily mean stopping in a bug infested spot). In my experience aquamira users make 1 quart or more then 1 quart at a time, some have their water loadout for the day when they break camp. Water pumps, sawyer type systems and steripen users typically carry less water weight in these conditions. Far offsetting the weight of the device, and even carrying a aquamira backup.

    Another offender is the alchy stove. All well and good on paper, but in practice people bring too much fuel, thru hikers pick up a bottle of Heat when they only need 6 oz, carrying the yellow bottle and the ultra light 6 oz container they have on their spreadsheet.

    On paper base weight looks attractive, in real world terms not so much. And that is the flaw of base weight, looks good in theory, smells bad in practice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    ...
    On paper base weight looks attractive, in real world terms not so much. And that is the flaw of base weight, looks good in theory, smells bad in practice.
    Just to add, as WB does not permit editing without paying for that (comon, that is a reason not to subscribe). Base weight analysis may be productive at first, but when approaching UL 'status' I feel and have seen it is then counterproductive actually causing more weight to be carried, though there is a placebo effect where a person believes they are UL, and that makes it feel better in itself.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Just to add, as WB does not permit editing without paying for that (comon, that is a reason not to subscribe). Base weight analysis may be productive at first, but when approaching UL 'status' I feel and have seen it is then counterproductive actually causing more weight to be carried, though there is a placebo effect where a person believes they are UL, and that makes it feel better in itself.
    Weight is weight. It is a number.
    Its either light or heavy...or somewhere in between. And its all perspective.
    Trail Miles: 4,927.6
    AT Map 1: Complete 2013-2021
    Sheltowee Trace: Complete 2020-2023
    Pinhoti Trail: Complete 2023-2024
    Foothills Trail: 0.0
    AT Map 2: 279.4
    BMT: 52.7
    CDT: 85.4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Putting stuff in the pockets is part of it and I've seen it happen. But other things, swapping consumable weight for base weight savings. Perhaps the one most overlooked and the heaviest item is water treatment. On paper Aquamira may look good as far as base weight, but not total weight carried, which includes water weight. The amount of water one carries has to do with how convenient it is to make it and in what quantities, and how much water is expected.

    If water is frequent, such as the AT, it makes sense to carry a method that is easy to make small quantities, and drink most of that at the water source. Aquamira users can't do that, they need contact time, which means carrying the water they need (unless they stop there, but on the AT that could easily mean stopping in a bug infested spot). In my experience aquamira users make 1 quart or more then 1 quart at a time, some have their water loadout for the day when they break camp. Water pumps, sawyer type systems and steripen users typically carry less water weight in these conditions. Far offsetting the weight of the device, and even carrying a aquamira backup.

    Another offender is the alchy stove. All well and good on paper, but in practice people bring too much fuel, thru hikers pick up a bottle of Heat when they only need 6 oz, carrying the yellow bottle and the ultra light 6 oz container they have on their spreadsheet.

    On paper base weight looks attractive, in real world terms not so much. And that is the flaw of base weight, looks good in theory, smells bad in practice.
    In the words of Sherman T. Potter....Horse hockey.

    Some people kid themselves all the time. Tracking their base weight has nothing to do with it. There's no contest to carry the minimum weight you can, like you seem to think.

    I routinely carry 2 liters of water for 10 miles without taking a sip. When I don't need to.
    Why?????.


    Because I can. My Pack is light enough I don't care.
    If you can comfortably make the miles you want to make that's all that matters.

    But there are times when it might matter. Like when you need to carry 5 days food and 7 liters of water. Then you start paying attention to the little things. And the guy with the 7lb pack is a hell of a lot happier than the guy with the 15 pound pack.

    Carry an extra bottle of heat while you have a fuel container? Dumb.
    Carry an extra canister while you have an almost empty canister? Dumber
    You can't talk about comparisons between alcohol and canister systems without explicitly defining each. There are many alcohol users that carry systems way heavier than canister systems that are available. There's other good reasons for alcohol like it's quiet. No sound of a Rocket taking off in the woods.

    AM... Work expended is going to be proportional to the time you carry the weight, and the distance your support force works thru. . W=f*d. We don't need to know exactly how or what force or distance it is. But we know it's proportional to each. All that counts.

    It is less work to carry 2 L of water for 30 minutes, then it is to carry 4 ounces of the Sawyer squeeze for 8 hours a day. In fact it's about 70% of the work. Do math. In addition you don't lose the time that you do filtering water. When I use a sawyer squeeze, admittedly a tiny filter, I lose about an hour a day to filtering water. That's 2 miles. Doesnt matter in summer when days are longer than you need. But in the shorter days in the winter time it will reduce mileage. And the freaking filter might freeze so there's that. And to blow your theory...... I still carry the water. Exactly the same as if I filled up with a.m. because....... That's what i do. I don't behave differently because I use a different water treatment method. And it still doesn't matter to me. Sawyer mini and syringe isn't going to kill me , or even be noticeable.

    In fact that's what most people do. Very few only camel up.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-01-2018 at 16:15.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    Weight is weight. It is a number.
    Its either light or heavy...or somewhere in between. And its all perspective.
    That's what I said

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    In the words of Sherman T. Potter....Horse hockey.

    Some people kid themselves all the time. Tracking their base weight has nothing to do with it. There's no contest to carry the minimum weight you can, like you seem to think.

    I routinely carry 2 liters of water for 10 miles without taking a sip. When I don't need to.
    Why?????.


    Because I can. My Pack is light enough I don't care.
    If you can comfortably make the miles you want to make that's all that matters.

    But there are times when it might matter. Like when you need to carry 5 days food and 7 liters of water. Then you start paying attention to the little things. And the guy with the 7lb pack is a hell of a lot happier than the guy with the 15 pound pack.

    Carry an extra bottle of heat while you have a fuel container? Dumb.
    Carry an extra canister while you have an almost empty canister? Dumber
    You can't talk about comparisons between alcohol and canister systems without explicitly defining each. There are many alcohol users that carry systems way heavier than canister systems that are available. There's other good reasons for alcohol like it's quiet. No sound of a Rocket taking off in the woods.

    AM... Work expended is going to be proportional to the time you carry the weight, and the distance your support force works thru. . W=f*d. We don't need to know exactly how or what force or distance it is. But we know it's proportional to each. All that counts.

    It is less work to carry 2 L of water for 30 minutes, then it is to carry 4 ounces of the Sawyer squeeze for 8 hours a day. In fact it's about 70% of the work. Do math. In addition you don't lose the time that you do filtering water. When I use a sawyer squeeze, admittedly a tiny filter, I lose about an hour a day to filtering water. That's 2 miles. Doesnt matter in summer when days are longer than you need. But in the shorter days in the winter time it will reduce mileage. And the freaking filter might freeze so there's that.
    OK this is the first time I'm hearing it this way and it sounds like a honest answer once you get past the horse hockey. A low base weight allows you to carry less, though it practice normally carrying more if total weights are on the lower side. But if one wants to lighten the load, especially when carrying extra gear (food) one can switch to UL mode and really pay attention to the consumables. I can buy this, low base weights are achievable, but equating that to lower total weight is on special occasions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    OK this is the first time I'm hearing it this way and it sounds like a honest answer once you get past the horse hockey. A low base weight allows you to carry less, though it practice normally carrying more if total weights are on the lower side. But if one wants to lighten the load, especially when carrying extra gear (food) one can switch to UL mode and really pay attention to the consumables. I can buy this, low base weights are achievable, but equating that to lower total weight is on special occasions.
    Now I'm going to back off and say you actually are right. Sometimes.

    There ARE people like that. Just not many imo. Maybe some newbie that just discovered ultralight and thinks that it's some kind of bragging right to State what their pack weighs on geargrams. These are the guys that want to talk gear on the trail. Hey, they're excited they got their pack weight down be happy for them even if they put their 8oz phone charger battery in their pocket. And then there's the guys who are doing under 5 lb targets as an exercise on bpl. But they only go out overnight generally not weeks hiking long distances. Most of them . Sometimes leaving some things out in the process. Putting stuff in pockets.

    Then there is the legitimate guy that hangs around here with the 2.8 pound pack and 23000 miles under his shoes.

    As always most of your pack weight is stuff you don't really need. Once you have reasonably light gear that is. And it's always possible to go lighter. Most UL long distance hikers with some experience eventually settle in around the 8-9 pound mark. This gives everything you need and some luxuries. Inflatable pad and bug net primarily.

    I literally could not get to 10 lbs if I tried outside of winter, there's nothing else I need or want that I don't have. And that includes a plb and a backup battery for the phone when needed. And bearcan. My base weight in the Sierra is still about 9.5 lb. Everyone else complained about bearcans, I said many times it would not bother me if they were required everywhere.including AT.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-01-2018 at 17:06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    Just to add, as WB does not permit editing without paying for that (comon, that is a reason not to subscribe). Base weight analysis may be productive at first, but when approaching UL 'status' I feel and have seen it is then counterproductive actually causing more weight to be carried, though there is a placebo effect where a person believes they are UL, and that makes it feel better in itself.
    I don't see carrying less weight as being counter-productive. I mean you can create an argument to substantiate any claim (as we all can) but the fundamental premise remains that lower base weight probably means lower total weight for most hikers' hiking style. I mean if the typical hiker starts with a higher base weight they will probably still carry X amount of consumables weight. So why not start lower and carry the same amount of consumables? I do subscribe to the idea that there is a Law of Diminishing returns on weight reduction however. I've always, and will continue to, carried most of my day's water when I leave camp. The weight decreases as the day progresses and I save substantial time i.e. I don't have to spend time hiking 0.3 miles to a spring, and return, plus whatever time it takes to filter/treat the water multiple times a day. Starting with a reasonable base weight (around 12.5 lbs) makes my heavier water carries very manageable. To each their own but to totally blow off base weight as a valid starting point is a bit silly.
    Lonehiker (MRT '22)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lonehiker View Post
    I don't see carrying less weight as being counter-productive.
    Not carrying less weight, but less base weight. At the low end (UL weight range), often leads to higher total weight carried in practice due to swapping consumables weight for base weight savings.




    So why not start lower and carry the same amount of consumables?
    Why not carry less consumable weight? Water is a primary example. Base weighters love aquamira, but I find in practice they carry more weight then alternatives because they carry more water. Aqua Mira is great for base weight, but horrible when you put you pack on the scale on trail.

    I do subscribe to the idea that there is a Law of Diminishing returns on weight reduction however. I've always, and will continue to, carried most of my day's water when I leave camp. The weight decreases as the day progresses and I save substantial time i.e. I don't have to spend time hiking 0.3 miles to a spring, and return, plus whatever time it takes to filter/treat the water multiple times a day. Starting with a reasonable base weight (around 12.5 lbs) makes my heavier water carries very manageable. To each their own but to totally blow off base weight as a valid starting point is a bit silly.
    My total weight for 1-3 nights is in the range of 11-19 lbs (assuming warmer season), yet I carry very little water unless needed.

    But I do agree that it may be a starting point, but only that. Once you are into realizing 'systems' and not 'items', baseweight starts to work against you, as some systems include consumables.

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    you should carry what you want..nothing more or less. Weight doesn't matter one way or another if you do this and are motivated enough to get from point A to point B. The incessant worry and fret over nonsense is making a mountain out of a molehill. Somebody once said on here that it's just walking. That brother spoke the truth.

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    I'm really enjoying reading your comments and trying to learn as much as I can. Just comparing what I'm carrying vs. what you all are saying gives me a point of reference. Just from your comments and and my own reflection, I've reduced my base weight from 20 or 21# to about 16. I'm trying to bring total weight down from 37 (although usually 30-35) a couple of weeks ago on the trail. I'd like to get it down to 25 or below with consumables. The reductions I've made are partially due to warmer temperatures than the mid-40s daytime and 30s at night, but I've also downsized some. My biggest issue is that I have some back issues (though I try not to use them as an excuse). But on the trail in mid-April, I was often pretty uncomfortable mid-back and between the shoulders, and feet often felt a bit like hamburger, although I don't think I was actually blistering. Anyway, that's why my question. Most of my weight reduction has been from going to a 20 degree bag (from a zero -- yeah I know, but I am a cold sleeper), going 4 oz less on my tent (from Tarptent Double Rainbow to Big Agnes Copper Spur UL 1), reducing from about 13 oz (Platypus) to about 4 oz (Smart Water bottle and Sawyer Mini filter w/o bag), and going from a Peak 2 rain jacket to a Marmot PreCip. Other items I've reduced/downsized as well, but I'm still wanting to get to 12-15 base weight and watch my consumables. Just trying to get to that sweet spot so the reduced weight helps me enjoy my hiking a little more. Keep the comments coming; I'm taking notes.

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