atcamp.org

[Cosmo]

Yes, I wish ATC would strongly promote this. Its difficult to find on their website and they make no real attempt to reach out to groups, including colleges. In Mass we have our own group notification effort: http://amcberkshire.org/atgrouphike, but it would be enhanced by more universal adoption of ATC’s system.

Cosmo

I observe the website was upgraded with sections for thru hikers and section hikers, but I have not explored those links to see what, if any, registration options are are in there for them.

I agree the site is a great tool for group planning. But I do have a complaint in regards to the college groups, since my experience so far is they are not using the same system. I could be wrong, but as I mentioned we have used this system the moment it was opened and we have never selected a site that already had a group registered but we have definitely had college groups at the site when we arrived.

[Shady Bill]

Problem with groups like Scouts, the leaders are pompous and don’t follow rules. We ran into one group last year on a section hike from 19E to Erwin. The guy had his kids spread all over without regard to the scouting patrol method. Invaded other people’s space and did not practice LNT

As a former Scout Master and an Eagle Scout I was embarrassed for scouting

I’m also an Eagle Scout and current Scoutmaster going on my 14th year. I apologize for the group you crossed paths with but I guarantee you that their behavior is in the minority. I’m not an expert on the AT. In fact my first hike was a month ago for only 2 days. I drove from Chicago and my 25 year old Eagle Scout son drove from Columbus Ohio and we had a blast. Our Scout Troop follows LNT and many other good practices. In fact if you saw us on the trail you would smile and think to yourself what a nice group of kids. Unfortunately one bad group is what people tend to remember and talk about.

Happy Hiking
Schady Bill

[Cosmo]

I've had quite a bit of experience as a volunteer Overnight Site Caretaker with a number of groups in Mass. Generally speaking, Scout groups either decline to register, or are ignorant of our request to register, and therefore we have no opportunity to help them to understand both the regulations (that is, actual rules) regarding group size and conduct, and the recommendations (not actual rules, but good practice) that will help them have an enjoyable outing w/o negatively affecting the experience of other hikers on the Trail or at campsites. Having said that, there are certainly other organized groups that visit the Trail in Mass that also do not register or contact us, and their behavior shows it. So it's not just Scouts, although I have to say it's a rarity (and a pleasure) to encounter Troops led by folks like Shady Bill.

There are groups visiting the AT in Mass that we work with closely on a regular basis every season. Generally, these do pretty well--although there are occasionally a few incidents, typically due to inexpert leadership or unusual circumstances. We're able to connect with the sponsor and resolve any issues quickly.

Between In June, July and August, we see over 200 group-nights on the AT in Mass--most of them at the same 6 or 7 overnight sites. This includes summer camps, scout group, church groups, recreation programs, college groups, etc. It's definitely a thing.

Perhaps it's the more random nature of Scout trips (they are not out on a regular basis), or that they are also volunteer led--generally by hard working parents who want the best for the kids, but don't have the time, knowledge or expertise to do research and acquire AT-specific skills before the trip. The ethic of "conquering the wilderness" (which was pretty common in my scouting days in the last century--we were still trenching around our tents to prevent rainwater from entering) still seems to linger--scouts (and adults) carry big knives and hatchets, operate with a military like organizational structure, and carry way too many clothes and gear. This is the AT folks, the most developed backcountry trail in the world. All the conquering is internal, not external.

For a great video on conquering the internal challenges check out this video, it's a great example of the reason why groups want to hike the AT.

Cosmo

I’m also an Eagle Scout and current Scoutmaster going on my 14th year. I apologize for the group you crossed paths with but I guarantee you that their behavior is in the minority. I’m not an expert on the AT. In fact my first hike was a month ago for only 2 days. I drove from Chicago and my 25 year old Eagle Scout son drove from Columbus Ohio and we had a blast. Our Scout Troop follows LNT and many other good practices. In fact if you saw us on the trail you would smile and think to yourself what a nice group of kids. Unfortunately one bad group is what people tend to remember and talk about.

Happy Hiking
Schady Bill

[Tundracamper]

I agree the site is a great tool for group planning. But I do have a complaint in regards to the college groups, since my experience so far is they are not using the same system. I could be wrong, but as I mentioned we have used this system the moment it was opened and we have never selected a site that already had a group registered but we have definitely had college groups at the site when we arrived.

IMHO, there really are no grounds for a complaint as you elected to use this system and perhaps had some unrealistic expectations regarding what it could provide. You clearly understand it is not a reservation system and should therefore come with no expectation about what you will find when arriving at a site. For a hotel, this sort of thing works great. For the open wilderness, I don’t see how it would ever work for individuals - except for planning purposes, and you clearly have had negative experiences in that regard.

[Just Tom]

We sure did elect to use it, and will continue to use it. First, because it is *the* system the ATC has provided to the public for groups, and part of being a good trail citizen is to use what is provided. Second, it may helps other groups that do use it as a planning tool (which is the intent right, so we all can select a site that isn't in high demand that weekend). And lastly, folks like Cosmo that deal with large group logistics can see where the groups will be and allocate resources as he described.

(And I do agree that when used for single hikers it is not as useful, but my comments were about the group planning feature in the site, which is what it started out as.)

[Cosmo]

The system has limitations--and is not all that useful for individual hikers (until when some dark day in the future everyone will need a permit to hike the AT, ugh!). It is handy for groups, and for notifying clubs and other entities who are keenly aware of the impacts organized group use can have on the AT--both to its facilities and on the experiences of its visitors.

The issue here (IMO) is not the (flawed) system of registration, but conduct of some groups that use the trail as a resource for the enhancement of their programs. I think that experiencing the AT with a group is a great way to introduce people to the backcountry (it certainly was for me). Some of these people will likely be repeat visitors (and possibly, eventually, stewards). Let's make sure that their early experiences are successful and instill in them the value of what the Trail offers. Let's teach them to respect the physical resources of the Trail (often built and maintained by volunteers). Let's teach them the value of being in close proximity to the sights and sounds of the natural world, and to leave it unimpaired by their visit so others may enjoy the experiences as well. Let's teach them to value freedom, self reliance and the personal responsibility those values require.

Cosmo

[George]

- people start using it. That will take time.

like right after the sun goes super nova