Sleep Setup for a GSMNP Section Hike

[jgillam]

A friend and some of his family, who aren't on this site, are planning to hike the AT though the Smokies this fall. I have been letting him try and compare some on my gear as he tries to figure out what works for him. So far, he seems to like a hammock system. My concern for him at this point is, if they are required to stay in the shelters, he is going to want a sleeping pad of some sort. If he is going to carry a pad, my thought is that he should carry a tent as a backup, rather than a hammock. I realize that a pad could work on a hammock but, my experience is that it's not nearly as good as a UQ.

Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thank you.

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[Southeast]

A friend and some of his family, who aren't on this site, are planning to hike the AT though the Smokies this fall. I have been letting him try and compare some on my gear as he tries to figure out what works for him. So far, he seems to like a hammock system. My concern for him at this point is, if they are required to stay in the shelters, he is going to want a sleeping pad of some sort. If he is going to carry a pad, my thought is that he should carry a tent as a backup, rather than a hammock. I realize that a pad could work on a hammock but, my experience is that it's not nearly as good as a UQ.

Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated. Thank you.

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If they are hiking the AT thru the Smokies, they’ll need to stay in the shelters and not hammock.
Only the thru-hikers are allowed to camp outside them if the shelter is full.

I’m a hammock camper, and honestly that is why I pick other trails in the park. Who wants to sleep in the shelter unless you have to.

And agree they should carry a tent as well. Unless they have propane torches. (Sorry old joke)

[Feral Bill]

A tarp would be a decent backup. Not likely to need it, and maybe a pound per person, tops.

[jgillam]

If they are hiking the AT thru the Smokies, they’ll need to stay in the shelters and not hammock.
Only the thru-hikers are allowed to camp outside them if the shelter is full.

I’m a hammock camper, and honestly that is why I pick other trails in the park. Who wants to sleep in the shelter unless you have to.

And agree they should carry a tent as well. Unless they have propane torches. (Sorry old joke)

They know that they need to stay in shelters...the hammock was the backup plan should something cause them to not be able to make it to shelter. They also want to do THIS trail and understand the limitations it puts on them. I wouldn't call him a hammocker yet, he's still borrowing my setup and hasn't even slept in it. Lol

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[jgillam]

A tarp would be a decent backup. Not likely to need it, and maybe a pound per person, tops.

Wasn't going to suggest it for a rookie. You bring up a good point about not likely needing a backup. What are the odds that would need it anyway? They are all healthy though not hikers. I'd think that they would be able to make their shelters without any issues. Is there any chance that they would get to the shelter and NOT be able to get in?

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[moldy]

Yes there is a chance they can’t get in. There is also a chance that they get lost or get caught in the dark and are forced to camp. A light tarp could save the day

[bigcranky]

Wasn't going to suggest it for a rookie. Is there any chance that they would get to the shelter and NOT be able to get in?

Yes. There is a non-zero chance that they arrive at the shelter and it's full. Whether it's full of hikers who didn't bother with the reservation system, or thru-hikers, doesn't really matter at that point. They either have to kick people out of the shelter, or camp nearby. Myself, I would camp nearby and call it a win. If the ranger shows up, show her my reservation and explain that the shelter was full and I wasn't comfortable throwing people out (a.k.a. "not my job.")

[JC13]

Wasn't going to suggest it for a rookie. You bring up a good point about not likely needing a backup. What are the odds that would need it anyway? They are all healthy though not hikers. I'd think that they would be able to make their shelters without any issues. Is there any chance that they would get to the shelter and NOT be able to get in?

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I read a story last week on reddit where a group of section hikers couldn't sleep in the shelter because they got there late during a rain storm. They didn't bring any shelter because they expected that they had priority. According to the rules, they did. With no one to enforce those rules, all bets are off and always have a means of shelter.

[tdoczi]

Yes there is a chance they can’t get in.

if they dont qualify for a "thru hiker" permit they ened a reservation at a specific shelter.

if they have a shelter specific reservation and it was full, those without a reservation would have to vacate.

i carried only an emergency backup shelter and was prepared to kick someone out of a shelter if it was called for. you're going to make me jump through hoops to hike i'm going to make everyone jump through with me.

there were close calls but i didnt have to kick anyone out.

you couldnt pay me to lug a complete proper shelter through there with those rules in place

and though it may sound it from my tone, i am not against the rules in the least

[tdoczi]

I would camp nearby and call it a win. If the ranger shows up, show her my reservation and explain that the shelter was full and I wasn't comfortable throwing people out (a.k.a. "not my job.")

unlikely to happen but if the ranger were a stickler and/or in a bad mood you'd be fined for doing so.

[MuddyWaters]

If all present had reservations, or were permitted not to as thru hikers, i doubt ranger would care who tented . Its all the same. As long as shelter already full.

[Gambit McCrae]

I side slightly on the side of danger on this topic...it has been discussed many many times. I used to throw caution to the wind in the smokies and bring nothing extra for shelter. At the same time, all I had was a 5 lbs tent I really didn't care to lug around all day when I knew I wasn't going to be able to use it in the end. However as I get older and slightly less ignorant, and have more shelter options. I carry a cuben tarp. It is less then a pound and in high wind, blowing rain can be snugged down to the ground.
I would advise all whom hike the AT thru the smokies to:
A- Know your capabilities and not exceed them during the planning stages of the trip(getting your permit)
B- Carry some sort of shelter
C- Use common sense

[tdoczi]

If all present had reservations, or were permitted not to as thru hikers, i doubt ranger would care who tented . Its all the same. As long as shelter already full.

like i said, unlikely.

but that doesnt change the fact that an at face value literal reading of the rules says otherwise.

[HooKooDooKu]

Wasn't going to suggest it [tarp...decent backup] for a rookie.

Nonsense...
My second ever camping trip was to what is now GSMNP CS#5. Back then, the trail maps showed a shelter at the site, so I didn't bother bringing my tent. However, having never seen a back country shelter, I brought along a "blue tarp" in case the roof wasn't very water-tight. But after driving to the smokies, I learned the shelter had been torn down the prior year. Didn't want to just turn around and drive home, so I hiked out to CS#5 with my tarp... used a tree, a 4' branch, some twine and stakes I brought and rigged up an A-Frame. Started raining just as the sun went down, but I remained dry under my tarp.

those without a reservation would have to vacate.

But who's going to enforce the rule?
I'm not about to risk putting myself in danger miles away from any trailhead trying to confront a stranger who doesn't want to follow the rules... especially since "those without a reservation" usually implies someone without a permit (because otherwise, the only legal way the hiker could camp at the shelter is if they are an AT thru hiker on a Thru hiker permit... and if the shelter is getting full, this type of hiker is likely to WANT to vacate the shelter).

unlikely to happen but if the ranger were a stickler and/or in a bad mood you'd be fined for doing so.

IMHO: If you have a valid permit... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

First of all, if you have a reservation for the shelter and the shelter is full... someone there either doesn't have a permit or is an AT hiker not following the rules. The ranger is going to go after the one without a permit rather than someone who is trying to follow the rules.

Second of all, my interactions with GSMNP park rangers has shown that they value safety ABOVE following the "letter of the law". bigcranky's response is a fine example of safety above rules.

[HooKooDooKu]

like i said, unlikely.

but that doesnt change the fact that an at face value literal reading of the rules says otherwise.

But they don't have rules for every situation my might encounter... and there are no "rules" for what YOU should do if you arrive at a full shelter yet YOU have a reservation.

Besides, given all the park rule violations I typically see, park rangers have plenty of "targets" that are willfully breaking rules than to waste their time going after someone making a legitimate attempt to follow the rules.

[tdoczi]

But who's going to enforce the rule?

me. i would were i in that spot.

[Ashepabst]

yeah, if they're staying in shelters the whole time and this is just a back-up scenario, just bring the tarp. ...and give him a quick primer on local depressions and rises and such so he wont wake up in a puddle.

[tdoczi]

But they don't have rules for every situation my might encounter... and there are no "rules" for what YOU should do if you arrive at a full shelter yet YOU have a reservation.

Besides, given all the park rule violations I typically see, park rangers have plenty of "targets" that are willfully breaking rules than to waste their time going after someone making a legitimate attempt to follow the rules.

unless i am mistaken, the rules state that the only people who can tent at shelter sites are people with AT thru hiker permits.

is that not the rule?

in big cranky's example he is camping in a tent without said permit, is he not?

end of story.

and ill say again, i agree it isnt going to be enforced that way, but lets not pretend that isnt what the rules state

[TNhiker]

First of all, if you have a reservation for the shelter and the shelter is full... someone there either doesn't have a permit or is an AT hiker not following the rules. The ranger is going to go after the one without a permit rather than someone who is trying to follow the rules.

and the ranger will make the person who doesnt have a permit pack up and leave.............

ive heard a couple of stories of people at a shelter, no permit, and they were escorted back to the trailhead....

[TNhiker]

unless i am mistaken, the rules state that the only people who can tent at shelter sites are people with AT thru hiker permits.

is that not the rule?

yes............and ONLY if the shelter is full...