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  1. #41
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    If your goal is to keep bears from eating human food for their safety then a bear canister may be your best option.

    If your goal is to keep bears and other critters from eating what you brought to eat yourself then there are multiple options.

    On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
    Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.
    "May the four winds blow you safely home ..." ​Garcia, Kreutzmann, & Hunter

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    That's weird. On the face of it, it appears that you can hang your food in a bear bag, but not carry it in your pack that way. "Except while being prepared and consumed" doesn't cover having it while on the march.

    I suspect that the intention of the regulation was unattended food, but that's not what the plain text says.

    I'd argue that food that's being slept with is attended. The big problem with sleeping with your food is that it does have to be attended. Need to get up in the middle of the night? You have to take it with you. (Not just under the law, but for safety - Murphy's Law says that's when Bruin, or a minibear, will be investigating your tent.)
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by H I T C H View Post
    If your goal is to keep bears from eating human food for their safety then a bear canister may be your best option.

    If your goal is to keep bears and other critters from eating what you brought to eat yourself then there are multiple options.

    On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
    Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.
    I haven't had any other critters try to get my food. I believe my possession theory holds true for other critters as well. I keep my food bag in my bivy under my head. Haven't had any hole crewed in my bivy either.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by H I T C H View Post
    On another note ;I have to ask folks who sleep with their food, "aren't you concerned about other critters?"
    Mice can carry as many as 100 ticks. I would be afraid to have food in my tent for fear of mice /ticks /Lyme disease.
    i more often than not sleep in shelters with my pack, containing my food bag, under my head.

    never has this caused me even the slightest problem. never even had anything even attempt to chew into my pack. doesnt happen. non issue. even when i have heard mice scurrying around in the dark.

    one time in a non at shelter i woke up early in the morning face to face with a mouse, but it didnt seem like he had gotten around to trying to chew through my pack yet, though he may have been thinking it over.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    That's weird. On the face of it, it appears that you can hang your food in a bear bag, but not carry it in your pack that way. "Except while being prepared and consumed" doesn't cover having it while on the march..
    The TITLE of 42883 says "possession and storage of food while CAMPING".

    When you're on the march, you are "hiking", not "camping". To further explain the difference, there are many places where you need a permit to "camp" but you don't need a permit to "hike".

  6. #46

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    My hang was purloined in Ocala NF over the winter. Since then I've been using a bare boxer for my short trips. It's really not much more of a hassle, in the pack or weight-wise. Just got back from a four-nighter in Slickrock and it was very nice not having any worries about food theft while away from the campsite or during the night.

  7. #47
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    Interesting to read all the opinions here.

    I'm just getting back into actual backpacking now that our youngest graduated this month. For the past 20 years I've been getting my fill of the back country by 1-2 week canoe trips...canoeing is easier with kids...you can bring way more stuff.

    Anyway, after losing half our food to mice one time in the Allagash (food bag hung on the picnic table ridge pole), I started keeping it in a 5 gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid. That works great in a canoe, but not so good in a backpack. Buckets also work great in deterring raccoons.

    Since I'm starting to backpack more and more, I've been debating on what to do as far as rodent/bear proofing my food. I am not good at hanging bags, and I'm not humping a 5 gallon bucket. After spending the last two nights in Baxter and seeing what others were doing, I decided on the BV450 and ordered it when I got home today (before finding this thread). If I find that I still like long distance hiking as much as I did 20 years ago, I'll get a larger canister.

    Sure, it's just over two pounds, but that beats having mouse poop in your food (or losing it to a raccoon, bear, etc).

  8. #48
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    Interesting to read all the opinions here.

    I'm just getting back into actual backpacking now that our youngest graduated this month. For the past 20 years I've been getting my fill of the back country by 1-2 week canoe trips...canoeing is easier with kids...you can bring way more stuff.

    Anyway, after losing half our food to mice one time in the Allagash (food bag hung on the picnic table ridge pole), I started keeping it in a 5 gallon bucket with a tight fitting lid. That works great in a canoe, but not so good in a backpack. Buckets also work great in deterring raccoons.

    Since I'm starting to backpack more and more, I've been debating on what to do as far as rodent/bear proofing my food. I am not good at hanging bags, and I'm not humping a 5 gallon bucket. After spending the last two nights in Baxter and seeing what others were doing, I decided on the BV450 and ordered it when I got home today (before finding this thread). If I find that I still like long distance hiking as much as I did 20 years ago, I'll get a larger canister.

    Sure, it's just over two pounds, but that beats having mouse poop in your food (or losing it to a raccoon, bear, etc).

  9. #49
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    If you're going to carry a bear canister on a regular basis, I would suggest the Bearikade. Constructed of carbon fiber sides, it's lighter than an equally sized Bear Vault, and I love the 3x quarter twit screws to open the lid compared to the tabs you have to squeeze the BV lid past.

    I still recall my 1st morning on the JMT, a fellow camper came over to the group I was in for the night asking for help getting their BV open. Temperatures had been pretty cool that night, and the plastic of the BV was pretty stiff. It took two people to open the BV... one squeezing the sides to get the lit past the two tabs, while another person concentrated on just turning the lid.

    The Bearikade is expensive (3x to 4x the BV). But if you plan to use it on a regular basis, I think the weight and especially the ease of use is worth it.

    The only warning I can give about the Bearikade is that I don't see where it has been certified by IGBC. So if you plan to travel in an area that specifically requires an IGBC certified products, then the Bearikade isn't for you. But I do know that Bearikade is on the list of approved canisters for use in Yosemite National Park... an area that I believe has perhaps the highest human/bear density combination in the country (i.e. an area you're most likely to encounter a black bear).


    {Follow Up}
    Regulations for Yellowstone National Park requires an IGBC certified product for food protection in the back country. Since the Bearikade is NOT IGBC certified, it's not legal to use in Yellowstone.
    Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 06-20-2018 at 23:08.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    If you're going to carry a bear canister on a regular basis, I would suggest the Bearikade.
    Agreed. If money is not a major factor in the decision and it's going to get used regularly the Bearikade is awesome.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    Agreed. If money is not a major factor in the decision and it's going to get used regularly the Bearikade is awesome.
    But you still have to worry about bears carrying screwdrivers...
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasm the elf View Post
    But you still have to worry about bears carrying screwdrivers...
    Bears don't like orange juice

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by perrymk View Post
    Bears don't like orange juice
    Are you saying they drink the vodka straight?
    Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

  14. #54
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    The Bearikade looks awesome and will be a long-term budgeting goal. Thank you for the info and link.

  15. #55
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    I carry a BV450 - I like it. I'm lazy, so it fits my hiking "style". I put stuff in it too, but I also odor bag my food and other smellys. Mostly hard stuff like my cookware or camp lighting, so its not picking up and holding scent. Becomes a big storage unit for small stuff for which my pack offers no small pockets for. I'm a weekend hiker mostly, so I don't need much food, and I don't want to risk a food bag getting compromised either before or after I hang by the biggest threat, which isn't bears.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
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  16. #56

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    My reasons for not carrying a bear canister are:
    They aren't perfect. I mean the only consistent ways to get them to fail against a bear is to either not have the lid fully locked (BV lid not screwed on completely) or first leave them out in the weather for many months/years until the canister becomes very brittle. Boo...
    Once you eat the food you can't transfer any other items from your pack to the inside of the canister without having to like totally rethink your packing strategy.
    It's true that a fed bear is a dead bear and I know that a bear is much more likely to get a food reward from my food bag/ursack, even if the sack isn't fully ripped open. I just don't like bears and if one is going to chew on my food containment system I want that sucker to get enough food reward that he quickly gets habituated and must be put down.
    I'm ultralight and canisters aren't.
    I'm cheap and canisters aren't.
    Bear canisters don't have that cute rope that ursack has and therefore can't be tied off to a tree to encourage a bear to promote the introduction of pests and disease to that tree by ripping it's bark or breaking its limbs/trunk.
    It's not fair to use a canister in a pillow fight. Food sacks are fair to use so long as you don't put rocks in them.
    Ants have a harder time getting into a bear canister than a food sack. Ants are good protein.
    Carrying a canister makes you look like a do-gooder snob.
    Using a bear canister as a chair is a good way to tip over and get a bruise. Food sack is much safer.
    When you put cool sentimental stickers on a canister it becomes even heavier!
    Bear canisters are the tools of a N.P.S. conspiracy to harass and unduly burden backpackers.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    Berserker---You bring up some good points but leave out two major flaws of the bear canister---It's just not added weight but as Slo-go'en says BULK!!. Bulk/weight is the first drawback.

    The second is the amount of food you can carry. I routinely carry between 18 to 24 days worth of food and laugh at the idea of stuffing 50 lbs of the stuff in about 4 separate bearvaults. What's your solution??
    18-24 days of food is CRAZY-heavy, but certainly means you can't use a canister system for bears. The most I've gotten into a single canister is about 9-10 days in an Expedition Bearicade. Wild Ideas will make even bigger ones I believe as custom orders if anyone wants one.
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  18. #58
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    If a person put their mind to it and chose the right location, 3 weeks with 2-3 Ursack Majors wouldn’t be the most horrible thing to do.
    Think outside the can.
    Wayne

  19. #59
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    Hard to swallow spending nearly $300+ and gaining 2lbs of hard bulk - Bearikade.

  20. #60
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    I think that at some point there's a Bearikade in my future. I don't want a BearVault because I occasionally hike in the Adirondacks, where some of the bears have learnt how to open one. (Yellow-Yellow became stew several years ago, but she taught the trick to her cubs, and there are still stories of BearVault failures there.) Right now, Eastern High Peaks Wilderness is the only area that I hike were canisters are required, although they're "strongly recommended" on all the NYS DEC lands.

    The couple of times I've been to Eastern High Peaks since the rule went into effect, I've used a borrowed or rented Garcia, and I know that's NOT what I want to buy.

    I have had a raccoon drag my backpack out from under my feet in a shelter. And there wasn't even any food in it, the food was hanging from the shelter roof [1]. (Little thief shredded my toilet paper, though!)

    [1] That wasn't horrible practice, necessarily, under the circumstances. It was -5 °F in the night, and the bears were asleep. I don't do that if there's any sign that they're awake. Even in Eastern High Peaks, canisters are optional December 1-March 31.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

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