Trash Cams

[bayview]

After doing a section hike a few weeks ago, I spoke with a trail worker that was cleaning a shelter about garbage. Why does ATC not place near proof trash receptacles at major locations and intersections of trail with highway. It would probably help reduce extra garbage on trail. I am sure logistics could be figured out to ensure they would be emptied during hiking seasons.

[Gambit McCrae]

Whose going to fund this major trash receptival project?
whose going to empty these trash cans?
cost of trash bags alone?
why would people throwing trash away at shelters and along the trail now keep that trash till they get to a road?

[MuddyWaters]

They would need to be emptied regularly
This would involve paying somebody

Trash is light
Yeah some people leave trash at shelters
Those people will always leave trash anywhere

For the rest of us
Not a big deal to carry our trash to town

A better solution is to just get rid of the shelter

[GoldenBear]

The placement of easy-to-use garbage cans does NOT reduce the amount of trash in an area -- it INCREASES it. Plain & simple, unless the cans are emptied pretty much every day, people dump their house trash into them and overwhelm their carrying capacity. This is an undeniable FACT in cities, rural areas, parks (ever wonder why you don't see a lot of cans in parks?), and DEFINITELY along roads.

It would be great if the ONLY trash left at cans, located where The Trail meets roads, was junk left by hikers. But a fact we can NOT ignore is that it would soon become a dumping ground for everybody who drives along that road.
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/liv...3DCABERw~1.jpg

May I suggest that each of us simply carry out a LITTLE bit of trash at each shelter? I truly believe the good guys far out-number the bad guys in this regard, and if each of us takes a handful or so of junk from a shelter, add it to our own trash bags (you know, the ones where we pack out what we pack in?); we would accomplish a LOT more than putting garbage magnets next to roads.

[Pondjumpr]

[QUOTE=GoldenBear;2213381]The placement of easy-to-use garbage cans does NOT reduce the amount of trash in an area -- it INCREASES it. Plain & simple, people dump their house trash at cans, overwhelming it...
[/QUOTE]

This is very true. I work at a bank and have done so for almost 20 years. Early in my career, we had trash cans by the ATM machines. In theory, it was so someone could throw away the receipt if they didn't want it. In reality, it became a place where people placed cups, fast food garbage, water bottles, etc. It was often filled to capacity, or over, daily. We no longer place trash receptacles by the ATM or outside the bank. If you ever notice trash receptacles at gas stations, this is pretty much the same thing. People stop to get gas and they empty their cars of any and all trash. Many stations no longer place trash receptacles near pumps for the same reason.

I imagine that trailside cans would have the same impact. While it is nice in theory, many people, possibly unknowingly, would cause a bigger issue than what is already present. Let's be honest, most people don't carry their trash all the way home when on trail. They empty the trash at the first trash receptacle they see. It's just how it is.

[Durunner]

Sounds good in theory, but others already brought up plenty of good points. Imagine this though. Let's say 100 backpackers go through an area a day. Say 5 out of the 100 trash the shelter while the other 95 pack out their trash. Now, we introduce that trash can. Even if the 5 people now use it, the other 95 or at least a good majority of those will probably also use it. Imagine how much more thrash that creates with 100 people with 3 days or more of trash. The can will get full very quickly.

[Dogwood]

Carry your own trash out. The AT is easy enough logistically to hike as it is.

[BuckeyeBill]

Pack it in, pack it out.

[Grampie]

Pack it in, pack it out.

It's all about taking pride in doing what you are doing. You are either a person who takes pride in the AT and what it means to the many users, than you practice LNT. If not you are just another S--t head who doesn't care about anything but your self.
As a past thru-hiker I can say, From what I have observed, most thru-hikers carry out their trash. Packing out your trash is just something most thru-hikers do. It's part of the deal when you use the trail.

[bayview]

He’s, you people act as I was too lazy to pick out my trash, I am not. I am probably on of the biggest LNT people. There are solutions out there.

Many want to make an excuse to a solution without offering alternatives to a problem. Instead of criticizing someone for their ideas, why not find solutions. Many people that follow LNT like my idea while I was on the trail two weeks ago.

I understand some thoughts out there, but why do we lump everyone into one group.

[Two Tents]

bayview, I hear ya! I'm not sure a trash can solution is the best solution. Nor is doing away with shelters a serious answer. Some would not care if there was a can not far away. I've seen people miss an empty dumpster with a bad throw of trash and just leave it where it landed. Pass a law, make a rule, put up signs, it won't matter. Litterbugs don't care. If solutions to getting people to change happens then that is golden. People ( some) don't give things like litter any thought whatsoever. I have always carried out more than what I take in. Until things change it is my way to help.

[perdidochas]

He’s, you people act as I was too lazy to pick out my trash, I am not. I am probably on of the biggest LNT people. There are solutions out there.

Many want to make an excuse to a solution without offering alternatives to a problem. Instead of criticizing someone for their ideas, why not find solutions. Many people that follow LNT like my idea while I was on the trail two weeks ago.

I understand some thoughts out there, but why do we lump everyone into one group.

Bay,

I think everybody thinks that you're sincere, and appreciate your solution. However, like many idealistic solutions, it crashes when reality hits. More garbage cans is not the solution. I agree with GoldenBear. Grab a little garbage when you see it and pack it out. Maybe when the trashy people see it, it will make them feel guilty, probably not, but at least the garbage gets picked up.

[Traveler]

He’s, you people act as I was too lazy to pick out my trash, I am not. I am probably on of the biggest LNT people. There are solutions out there.

Many want to make an excuse to a solution without offering alternatives to a problem. Instead of criticizing someone for their ideas, why not find solutions. Many people that follow LNT like my idea while I was on the trail two weeks ago.

I understand some thoughts out there, but why do we lump everyone into one group.

I'm not sure who has said you were lazy, however the solution you proposed has been tried in various places and has failed for a few reasons. The primary reasons being funding issues to obtain the trash cans and have them serviced (trash removed, trash bags replaced, trash cans replaced when stolen or destroyed), simple trash cans will attract animals which in turn can create a nuisance for local residents nearby, heavy bear proof trash containers increases the labor costs, and when trash cans are available in remote areas they tend to attract trash from sources not associated with the trail itself. Having been involved in trail maintenance, there are no easy solutions for this problem beyond picking up behind these clods or shaming those who litter when they are observed doing so.

If this is something you feel strongly about you can provide trash service through the local maintainers group (who will love you for that). Because this has not worked in some places it does not mean it won't work where you think they may. You could sponsor/service game cameras that can photograph those who litter and perhaps aid in their prosecution. A lot of litterbugs are locals who use shelters or camping spots for parties who can be identified with a bit of leg work.

This is a long standing problem requiring different methods of solution in at different locations.

[Old Grouse]

A similar issue is dog walkers not picking up their pets’ poop in parks. In the town where I work, some of the patrons of one park became militant. They made little signs attached to a bit of coat hanger wire, saying “Shame on you.” They’d stick a sign next to a pile of poop to shame the dog owner. Of course, all that did was add sign litter to poop litter.

When that didn’t work, they wanted to install trail cams to photograph the violators. This would also require cameras in the parking lots and someone to watch the videos all day long to identify the violators by matching their photos with their license plates. Sanity ultimately prevailed when they calculated the expense involved. The saga actually made the NYC news.

[George]

A similar issue is dog walkers not picking up their pets’ poop in parks. In the town where I work, some of the patrons of one park became militant. They made little signs attached to a bit of coat hanger wire, saying “Shame on you.” They’d stick a sign next to a pile of poop to shame the dog owner. Of course, all that did was add sign litter to poop litter.

When that didn’t work, they wanted to install trail cams to photograph the violators. This would also require cameras in the parking lots and someone to watch the videos all day long to identify the violators by matching their photos with their license plates. Sanity ultimately prevailed when they calculated the expense involved. The saga actually made the NYC news.

the one I do not get is how many bags of dog crap are left along the trail

if you are not going to carry it out, why bag it? - maybe to lessen the risk of getting caught/ fined?

[Old Grouse]

Do they tell themselves they’ll be back to pick it up? Do they believe themselves?

[Leo L.]

I've made good experience by picking up litter occassionally within clear view of "litter bugs". Heard lots of positive comments that put the litter spenders ashame.
Not that I'll do this every time, but just occassionally when I think it would make a great example.
In other cases I just pick up and depose in the next bin.

[orthofingers]

There's a gravel parking lot at the town forest where I "hike" every morning with my dogs. They used to have two trash receptacles there. They were always overflowing with pizza boxes, beer cans, clothing articles and a couple of times, old mattresses. Since they removed them about five years ago, I pick up the stray can or bottle and the place is much cleaner.

[TexasBob]

[QUOTE=Pondjumpr;2213409]

The placement of easy-to-use garbage cans does NOT reduce the amount of trash in an area -- it INCREASES it. Plain & simple, people dump their house trash at cans, overwhelming it...
[/QUOTE]

This is very true. I work at a bank and have done so for almost 20 years. Early in my career, we had trash cans by the ATM machines. In theory, it was so someone could throw away the receipt if they didn't want it. In reality, it became a place where people placed cups, fast food garbage, water bottles, etc. It was often filled to capacity, or over, daily. We no longer place trash receptacles by the ATM or outside the bank. If you ever notice trash receptacles at gas stations, this is pretty much the same thing. People stop to get gas and they empty their cars of any and all trash. Many stations no longer place trash receptacles near pumps for the same reason.

I imagine that trailside cans would have the same impact. While it is nice in theory, many people, possibly unknowingly, would cause a bigger issue than what is already present. Let's be honest, most people don't carry their trash all the way home when on trail. They empty the trash at the first trash receptacle they see. It's just how it is.

There's a gravel parking lot at the town forest where I "hike" every morning with my dogs. They used to have two trash receptacles there. They were always overflowing with pizza boxes, beer cans, clothing articles and a couple of times, old mattresses. Since they removed them about five years ago, I pick up the stray can or bottle and the place is much cleaner.

It strikes me as ironic that one of the reasons for not having trash cans is that people put trash in them.

[Bcollarhiker]

Not much of a poster here but people leaving trash behind or spray panting on the trail gets my blood boiling, I say we need stricter laws regarding this, lets start with a 1000.00 dollar minimum fine for littering, if you cant pay it, minimum 1 week in your local cell, fine and prison times goes up for repeat offenders, plus police actually need to enforce this law, i cant tell you how many times I saw people dump fast food bags out of there cars with a police officer right there not giving it a second look