I don’t see any tracking updates since 7:24 AM today around km 186. Frustrating....
I don’t see any tracking updates since 7:24 AM today around km 186. Frustrating....
Formerly uhfox
Springer to Bear Mountain Inn, NY
N Adams, MA to Clarendon VT
Franconia Notch to Crawford Notch
Update at 11:22 am Saturday:
288 km
(about 16 miles short of Clingmans Dome)
It's a bummer to see such large gaps in the tracking - nearly 27 hours and over 100 km. That may provoke controversy later, especially since there are no updates on IG during the same time. I hope someone is in contact with Karel's crew & can let them know that this is a potential issue. But, I expect they'll fill it in with non-tracker GPS data later (GPX).
There was a comment on his Facebook page yesterday and a reply from the crew, so yes they are aware.
Better than cable tv I tell ya
PB, do you know what kind of tracker he’s using? I’m not familiar with the mapping platform either, but this missing data may be recoverable. Such kinks reinforce the need for alternate forms of documentation. Trackers aren’t perfect on the AT.
Still feel guilty relaying the recommendation for a spot trace to Joey last year. Seems the MTB folks over at trackleaders.com really like these relatively light/cheap units, but Joey found it to be a bit of a PIA on his AT SOBO. Despite setbacks, I’d still deem his trial of a delayed live-track map a success.
I do not know what tracker they're using. SPOT devices have proven over and over to be poor on the AT. Karel should have known this by now, and should have used an InReach. These days not having good tracking on the AT is a problem for the FKT. GPX files don't cut it. They'll need excellent photo evidence, combined with GPX and a thorough trip report. Then you (Matt) & Just Bill, or somebody, will have to spend weeks vetting whatever they submit! Frustrating. Once again, no track point since yesterday afternoon, and no posts on IG anyway (I'm not following FB). Joe & Joey both did much better while self supporting.
Scott used an InReach. Anyone else? His seemed the most detailed and accessible track to date for an AT FKT, so I certainly understand your plug. When eventually made accessible, Joe’s and Anish’s tracks proved pretty good (i.e. averaging multiple signals per 24 hours) and I think both were using spots. I have no personal experience (or financial interest) to plug one over the other.
Maybe there’s already another device out there better at penetrating the canopy of Appalachian rainforest. Or maybe there’s an app that supplements GPS signal with triangulation of cellular towers…? RE FKT validation: no matter what type of tracker, or what mapping platform is/isn’t used, the best data would be both timely (live, or near to) and transparent (publicly accessible).
IMO, it’s best to get as many eyes on this stuff ASAP. You’ve said it before that you don’t want to be the arbiter here, and I’ll tell you right now, neither do I! Bill can speak for himself. Please understand that I really appreciate your efforts to get FKTers to publish their info concurrently with any claim and not month(s) after the fact. As for Karel, he may be ahead in kilometers, but falling behind in documentation.
…There are still many miles, er kilometers left to Big K!
I'm virtually certain Harvey Lewis used InReach as well. You could view his track through https://share.garmin.com/harveylewis , and when I saw the physical tracker it looked like an InReach when I view it now. I think his team just put a front end program on it with Esri/ArcGIS. I think TravisRex might have explained it in Harvey's thread.
Scott's tracker was a little spotty early on. I was watching closely as he was approaching my area, to try to get a few miles in with him, but saw nothing that day. I only knew where they had stopped the night before, but didn't realize he got a late start. When I did finally see him on the trail, I asked and he said he thought it wasn't working so he had turned it off. Or maybe back then you had to hit a button to mark a point, rather than it happening every x minutes automatically, and he had stopped doing that. I told him it had been working well the day before, and he started using it again.
The InReach uses a much better satellite network than SPOT, and seems to work in forest cover much better. This is well known. Having the tracker set for 1 min. intervals is pointless and invites problems, including running out of batteries. It is much better to have several (strategic) points per day, every day, than 150 points one day and zero the next. Any gap of longer than a few hours is problematic as it can invite speculation of a section of the trail being skipped. Others have had both tracking and pretty frequent (at least daily) social media updates. Scott was posting on Twitter, and tons of people were meeting him & running with him, so it would have been virtually impossible for him to skip a section. So far we haven't heard from anyone who has met with or run with Karel. There's been a gap of nearly 28 hours (Fri a.m. to Sat a.m.), and now apparently just 1 point since yesterday evening. What's going on out there? It's early in the trip, but these issues need to be addressed & fast! This is the AT, not some rinky-dink FKT attempt on an obscure trail!
On their FB page, WRT the tracking fail, the team posted that they were confident the data is stored on the device and will be made public later. If true, then this is only a big problem for us armchair trail-runners.
yep it’s still very early.
Actually, no. The point of real time tracking is that it gives data in real time so there is transparency & it’s relatively hard to falsify. If the data is “stored on the device” (which SPOT & InReach devices don’t do), then it’s just like a gps watch. This also highlights an issue with the interface they’re using to display the data from the device. A skeptical person could ask “How do we know they’re not feeding fake data into the display interface?” We don’t even know what tracker they’re using. Karel’s team should give us the direct link to the real time tracker data, which is a step closer to what’s actually happening on the trail.
Sooner or later a journalist is going to call & say “what do you think?” To now Karel’s tracker is returning about 40-50%. How is this better than, say, Knotts? If a journalist calls tomorrow I’ll have to say “who knows what Karel is doing?”
Or, to turn the scenario around, what if a malicious person falsely reports witnessing Karel yellow blazing? How would we know if that’s not true? Tracking is for the benefit of the ATHLETE. No one reacts well to others doubting their claims, so make it easy to believe. Actually, you want to make it hard NOT to believe.
OK, I'll walk back a bit of what I said above. I looked at legendstracking.com , which is the service they are using. It is not SPOT or InReach, and I am not familiar with it. Apart from whether it's a wise choice to use a new (for our purposes untested) service like this for a big AT FKT attempt, it seems legit. As far as I can tell, the tracker does NOT send data to a satellite, but rather uses cell technology to transmit the data to the legendstracking site. So, the gaps either reflect the tracker not connecting to the gps satellites (therefore not being able to determine position), or the tracker not being able to connect to the cell network and send the data out. IF the latter, then their comment that the data is stored on the device might be correct. HOWEVER, the legendstracking site clearly states that the device will hold "up to 3000 points". At 1 min intervals that's just over 2 days, which is about how much data is already missing from the tracking site. Also, data is supposed to be automatically uploaded from the device once the cell connection is re-established, and this clearly has not happened since if it did the data gaps would be filled in.
Won't some one lend them an InReach device!?
I've emailed Karel directly about these issues, but he has not responded (no surprise) & I personally have no other way of getting in touch with the team (I'm not on FB). My goal is to help them be as transparent as possible, which will save hassles for them (& ME!) later.
Did the km units on his tracker throw anyone else off?
I checked it and went from "430 miles in 5 days?!?" to "Wait, he's in Hot Springs... that's not 430 miles!!!" to "Ohhhh... it's in kilometers.".
This must be what people from other countries think when they come to the US.
It's all good in the woods.
Peter, is this a different tracking platform than what Karel used on his PCT FKT? Speaking of, as far as I know, Karel deferred (preferred) the Guinness analysis and ruling over that of the PCT FKT community. Assuming an AT FKT claim, the same thing will likely unfold here. Which begs the question, all beer jokes aside, what data analysis could Guinness possibly use to rule out some of these concerns?
This system wouldn't work on the PCT because there is seldom cell coverage. I don't recall what tracker (if any, maybe just a GPS watch?) Karel used on the PCT. I don't believe he announced his PCT attempt on the old Proboards FKT website.