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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    . . . Can the folding foam pad be positioned such that it provides the missing flat surface to hold the pack up? . . .
    When I bring my RidgeRest or my Z-light pad or any other CCF pad, I attach them vertically to the back of the pack and if I position their height just right, the bottom of the pad works quite well as a kickstand. So, my pack always has a kickstand, whichever pack I use, when I'm winter camping.
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  2. #42

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    On my arc zip I have loops that I attach my crazy creek chair on the bottom backside of my pack; it stands upright just fine. (love that silly chair)

  3. #43
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    Trip 189 (42)-XL.jpg
    If I had the problem I would seriously consider leaning the pack against one of those trees.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco View Post
    Trip 189 (42)-XL.jpg
    If I had the problem I would seriously consider leaning the pack against one of those trees.
    Ever try to move a 90 lb pack with your upper body? Plus whatever components you use to grab onto to move the pack get unduly stressed.

    In my picture I loaded up all my crap onto the pack at that one spot---dragging it to a nearby tree would've been extra work. Now it's positioned for me to sit down and strap in and stand up with the pack on my back.

    What's weird is a 90 lb pack is nearly impossible for me to carry EXCEPT on my back. My upper body strength is minimal but my legs and hips and stomach core has no problem with hefting and hiking with such a pack.

    The only real problem this presents is when hitchhiking with such a load and trying to lift it into a pickup truck---or take it out.

  5. #45
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    I agree................got lucky on this one. I have a lot of orthopedic issues, in fact have not been able to hike since Oct 2016, hope to be back next year to complete last 200 miles

    FOAM ROLLER - super light, can use as a pillow.............and drumroll, as a foam roller to work out the knots, sore feet, legs?? Put at the bottom in sleeping bag loops, done, pack is at full salute and stands great.

    And you will be the only person with a foam roller to share with others.

  6. #46
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    After a week without laundry, some of my clothes stand up on their own. I sometimes worry they will get up and run off on their own.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    After owning two Ospreys, an Arc Haul and a ULA Circuit I have noticed that not one of these packs stands up on their own.

    Can anyone answer me why pack designers decided this was a good way to go? Why the slanted or rounded pack bottoms? I find it incredibly frustrating that none of these are capable of non-drunken standing ie need something to hold them upright.
    Packs used to come with kickstands...
    16903109_220195898449314_6635873767178415727_o.jpg
    Trail Miles: 3,715.9
    AT Trips: 67
    AT Map 1 Completion: 1818.9 Springer, GA - Franconia Notch, NH
    AT Map 2 Completion: 263.8 Gaps From GA - PA

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    You could always upgrade to a 70's Jansport external frame with the hip hugger belt. The metal frame around the hip belt would hold up a pack perfectly. Better than a kick stand on a bicycle.
    Jansport hip wings.jpg
    Took me a bit to find a picture. For a second I thought I'd imagined the metal frame around the hip belt, but they were real.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Jansport hip wings.jpg
    Took me a bit to find a picture. . .
    I remember those. I loved a lot about them for hiking trails with relatively even tread, but darn, those frames were squeaky!
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  10. #50

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    I'd probably remember them more fondly if the ones I used as a teenager actually fit. My parents each had one from before I was born. The few times I used them for backpacking trips, they left bruises and hip chafing that took some months to truly heal. Otherwise they were great packs.

  11. #51
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product...OPLUS_609.html
    https://www.osprey.com/us/en/product...ROPOS_596.html

    The poco series features a true stand up pack system... as shucking your pack and dumping your kiddo onto their face generally gets you bad reviews from consumer reports.
    And the Tropos and a few other 24/7 series packs feature a kickstand of sorts so your urban adventures can be better handled and your laptop isn't damaged.

    Otherwise as Tipi points out this issue is as old as Colin Fletcher who advocated a fine stave for camp lounging and for when one desires to appear conspecific if one is lucky enough to meet up with a unicorn.

    As discussed in the Arc haul thread: the rounded turtle shell shape helps load transfer overall. By rounding the pack you gain several design advantages to force the user's pack job to properly load the suspension.

    You could blame Ray Jardine as well if you like. His basic pack design (side panels with a radius bottom and single wrap around front and back to form a three piece body) accomplished this with the bare minimum of engineering required. This was a shift away from the more traditional flat bottomed rucksack that represented the alternative to the external frame designs. Prior to Ray's pack these two forms (rucksack or external frame) were the two basic shapes. The squat, flat bottomed, pear shaped rucksack of Nessmuk or Kephart's time did indeed stand up well enough and is gaining mild resurgence in the bushcraft world. Though generally they are pretty rough to carry a load if one doesn't use a tump line to assist them when loads exceed 15lbs or so. Despite the admiration of these past SUL woodsman... few bushcrafters dip below 25lbs as a base weight.

    As we've moved away from bear canister sized sleeping bags to form a solid base to sit the load on, the radius of the turtle shell has gotten more exaggerated as a result.
    When done well, the shape also helps kick the contents of the water bottle pockets towards the user... though Osprey in particular has never done well with that feature for the LD hiker.

    Overall... you'd find that solving the comfort issue for the 80% or more of the time you are using the pack in motion it's not worth conceding anything to the 5% of the time it's sitting on the ground.

    As a fairly sweaty fellow... I actually prefer the pack to lay cleanly on it's backside so that wet hipbelt is out of the dirt and the damp backpanel is exposed to the sun if at all possible.

    Try carrying a loaded Poco without a kiddo in it. Without that 7lbs of suspsension picking that thing up dumping all your gear in the flat bottomed trunk of the pack you'd fall over backwards.

  12. #52

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    Holy smokes - I can't believe the Poco slipped my mind. We have one (at Just Bill's recommendation) and love it. The self supporting feature is extremely handy (indispensable) with a kid in the pack.

  13. #53
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Yar... that Poco is very impressive and sure beats carrying a kiddo on your shoulders, lol.

    https://bedrockandparadox.com/2014/0...ck-kit-review/

    A good look at the ray way pack's design... to a large extent every modern pack is a variation on this design.
    Though the true turtle shell is more of a back panel component with three or four fabric panels used to then add the shell (sides and rear).

    https://www.frostriver.com/shop/day-...pedition-pack/
    A modern (slightly more cylidrical body) take on the traditional flat bottom rucksack.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-s3Ak6H2UNu...t%2Bp129-2.jpg

    Not sure if that link will work- but a google image search brought me to that picture of a nessmuk, duluth pack (rucksack with tump line), and a whelen pack sack.
    http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2014...-backpack.html

    The pictures in the article as a whole are not a bad collection.

    As fer me... the old Kelty external frame... newer version here. https://www.kelty.com/yukon-48/

    These actually stood up just fine when you had your roughly 18" diameter 5lb synthetic fill sleeping bag strapped to the bottom. The frame could be dug into the dirt a bit and the pack stood at attention and glared at you ominously. Quietly daring you to pick up that thing again and put in another mile or so per hour of forward progress each time you set it down.

    I prefer these modern gizmos that you only remember to take off when you need to take something out of them.
    Though if hauling a load a cleverly disguised skin job over a true external frame (like the poco) is a modern marvel in it's own right.

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    Packs used to come with kickstands...
    Great pic, Gambit. Love those floppy ensolite pads. Miss the Age of the External Frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by CalebJ View Post
    Jansport hip wings.jpg
    Took me a bit to find a picture. For a second I thought I'd imagined the metal frame around the hip belt, but they were real.
    Nearly the same pack used by Peter Jenkins on his walk across America (see pic). Jansport D-something or other.

    backpack.jpg

  15. #55

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    One advantage to a tipped over pack is it can be used as a lazy-boy chair during reststops---something I do alot. Sit back, drink fluids, write in the trail journal, eat a snack, contemplate route. (Pic at Jacks River Falls).

    TRIP 142 276-L.jpg

  16. #56
    Registered User Just Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    One advantage to a tipped over pack is it can be used as a lazy-boy chair during reststops---something I do alot. Sit back, drink fluids, write in the trail journal, eat a snack, contemplate route. (Pic at Jacks River Falls).

    TRIP 142 276-L.jpg
    To be fair, your tipped over 35 gallon drum makes a much better backstop than a toilet trash can sized 35L.

    https://www.brookstone.com/pd/nap-bed-rest/973065p.html

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tipi Walter View Post
    One advantage to a tipped over pack is it can be used as a lazy-boy chair during reststops---something I do alot. Sit back, drink fluids, write in the trail journal, eat a snack, contemplate route. (Pic at Jacks River Falls).

    TRIP 142 276-L.jpg
    But I baby my gear and the back mesh is usually the most fragile part.

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