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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Drink your food. With respect to Malto and the gel crowd I wouldn't make it sugar/sweetener based either even if they say it's a complex carb or pt to glycemic indexes. Do a broad nutritional spectrum powder with enzymes, probiotics, etc. NOT NOT just a protein powder either!..especially not a protein powder marketed to the "body building" crowd. Be careful of some whey products as they can cause bloat furthering lack of appetite. An eighty miler at elev like the UHL in summer is NOT where I'd be avoiding liquids. Add the powder. Liquid food with your water might go down easier. Not eating any nutrition for several days no matter what your carrying on your body is eventually going to catch up with you. You're not talking about a dun in er day marathon. You're NOT going home after a day! I assume you're not eating anything else. You're talking a 5-6 day hike. I might supplement with gels and HEED but I wouldn't rely solely on them for 5-6 days without anything else OR I might supplement with a powder.
    I agree with much of your post but..... drinking energy beat the alternative of zero energy. Either results in zero nutrition. I agree completely that proper nutrition is very important.
    enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malto View Post
    I agree with much of your post but..... drinking energy beat the alternative of zero energy. Either results in zero nutrition. I agree completely that proper nutrition is very important.
    as i like to say. Empty calories are better than no calories at all...

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    Ha ha, never going to happen...cheese is one of my favorite things in life and causes no digestive issues for me, thank God. I take the pre-packeged sharp cheddar sticks and have 3 for lunch so I'm not eating much of it. Cheese has a lot of fat so I find it helps with the my energy levels since it provides more sustained energy than cheap carbs.
    You dont have to be lactose - dairy milk SUGAR - intolerant to experience digestive issues eating dairy cheese. Consuming large amounts of fat and protein in the form of dairy cheese can lead to digestive issues. Bloating that leads to loss of appetite is common even among those who aren't strongly lactose intolerant. Gorge on mozzarella; see what happens to most accustomed to the SAD - standard american diet - most reading this!!! - high in red meat, processed food, high fat, oodles of trans fats, high amount of "bad" fats, super size me large portions, fried foods, soda, low plant consumption, not enough H2O(most U.S. citizens are in a state of dehydration!), lack of fiber, high amounts of sugar-even if it's a complex rather than simple carb, energy drinks, coffee galore(that's me), high sodium intake(not too bright when the typical person is already dehydrated!, sweating while hiking does NOT give one an absolute automatic pass on gorging on sodium!), acidic bodies and food, terribly nutrient deficient modern and highly processed/refined grains, rampant pharmaceutical drug use(can cause changes in appetites!)...Add to that lethargic lifestyles and other lifestyle factors and it shouldn't be any wonder why once on trail we have energy, appetite, and other body and mind issues.

    All this has been well documented. The SAD leads to disease. It leads to a litany of digestion issues. It's not all in the head!

    It takes me several days on trail, usually about 4-5, to eventually detox to some acceptable standard from the off trail accumulated toxic load...AND in anticipation I tend to do a pre LD hike moderate detoxification. Avoiding not just caffeine but acidic coffee w/ all the "extras"(sugar, lots of H&H), drinking copious fresh clean H2O, having greater physical movement(and I am NOT a lethargic person by anyone's opinion), avoiding the chemicals and vehicle exhaust, chemicals in my career as a horticulturalist, and gnoshing with the constant "drip method" rather than consuming three large meals like I'm apt off trail has an impact after a few days FOR THE BETTER.


    If you're going to eat cheese consider lower fat and non dairy options. That does NOT mean they are low fat foods just low fat for cheese which tends to be high in fat. They are easier to digest. Want to stay more satiated...drink more water? It's a natural solvent that can cleanse.

    Empty -nutritionally dismal - calories is what constitutes the SAD.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    You dont have to be lactose - dairy milk SUGAR - intolerant to experience digestive issues eating dairy cheese. Consuming large amounts of fat and protein in the form of dairy cheese can lead to digestive issues. Bloating that leads to loss of appetite is common even among those who aren't strongly lactose intolerant. Gorge on mozzarella; see what happens to most accustomed to the SAD - standard american diet - most reading this!!! - high in red meat, processed food, high fat, oodles of trans fats, high amount of "bad" fats, super size me large portions, fried foods, soda, low plant consumption, not enough H2O(most U.S. citizens are in a state of dehydration!), lack of fiber, high amounts of sugar-even if it's a complex rather than simple carb, energy drinks, coffee galore(that's me), high sodium intake(not too bright when the typical person is already dehydrated!, sweating while hiking does NOT give one an absolute automatic pass on gorging on sodium!), acidic bodies and food, terribly nutrient deficient modern and highly processed/refined grains, rampant pharmaceutical drug use(can cause changes in appetites!)...Add to that lethargic lifestyles and other lifestyle factors and it shouldn't be any wonder why once on trail we have energy, appetite, and other body and mind issues.
    All this has been well documented. The SAD leads to disease. It leads to a litany of digestion issues. It's not all in the head!
    It takes me several days on trail, usually about 4-5, to eventually detox to some acceptable standard from the off trail accumulated toxic load...AND in anticipation I tend to do a pre LD hike moderate detoxification. Avoiding not just caffeine but acidic coffee w/ all the "extras"(sugar, lots of H&H), drinking copious fresh clean H2O, having greater physical movement(and I am NOT a lethargic person by anyone's opinion), avoiding the chemicals and vehicle exhaust, chemicals in my career as a horticulturalist, and gnoshing with the constant "drip method" rather than consuming three large meals like I'm apt off trail has an impact after a few days FOR THE BETTER.
    If you're going to eat cheese consider lower fat and non dairy options. That does NOT mean they are low fat foods just low fat for cheese which tends to be high in fat. They are easier to digest. Want to stay more satiated...drink more water? It's a natural solvent that can cleanse.
    Empty -nutritionally dismal - calories is what constitutes the SAD.
    All good advise but I actually don't eat much processed or crappy food. I don't drink coffee although my one vice is diet Pepsi but I don't have any caffeine withdrawals on the trail, and I don't miss it until I get back. I dislike anything salty and have a very low red-meat intake...mostly stick with chicken or turkey orlamb (if I can find it). I rarely eat fast foood. I love my veggies and my other weakness is pasta. I eat a very balanced diet and cheese is just a part of it...not a ton, but enough to enjoy a few slices of good cheese on crackers in a healthy way. Three cheese sticks a day when backpacking is not a lot of cheese. I have eaten like this for years and my body has zero issues EXCEPT when eating highly-processed foods so I avoid them, or when I eat too much (like on Christmas).

    I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on a healthy diet; all I wanted to know was if others had experienced it to the same extent and how they dealt with it, and why they think it happens.

  5. #45

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    In so-called normal life, I do experience hunger, but I almost never do while hiking. What I do feel from time to time is fatigue, and food, trail snacks mostly, is what gets me going again. On the trail, I eat three "meals" as well, more because I know I should than because I'm hungry.

    In towns, I do seek out big hiker breakfasts and do certainly enjoy a nice salad and dinner. Appetite returns in towns, and I feel replenished when I head back to the trail.

    On my section hikes, I usually lose some weight, which isn't a bad thing.

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    ...I didn't mean for this to turn into a debate on a healthy diet; all I wanted to know was if others had experienced it to the same extent and how they dealt with it, and why they think it happens.
    It's not about debating what's healthy per se. All these listed things very much can and do affect appetite though. Make no mistake about it. There are appetite hormones and additives and ingredients in food and specific foods that absolutely do affect appetite, ones that suppress and encourage appetites. It's intentionally designed into various food paradigms, what we're led to consume - foods, drinks, the amount we're led to consume, and how we live. With studies from the CDC and many others pointing to 70% of U.S citizens being overweight with 1/3 of all U.S. citizens being obese the SAD and American lifestyle are key drivers in dietary appetite. You can't separate dietary culture and lifestyle from appetite. Appetite fluctuations aren't all due to energy need fluctuations! There's more to it!

    There is a virtually constant psychological aspect to influence appetite states too so absolutely some of it is mental. Once on trail we're not so utterly immersed culturally and marketing triggered by the smell of greasy french fries or the overload of constant visual and audio food advertisements that are absolutely intended to lead us to consume more more more in a national culture dominated by greater and greater massive consumption. Our economy depends upon it.

    So what can we do? How do I deal with on trail appetite? When we question and are more aware of consumption, including food, and appetite off trail, which is what the masses largely avoid in this sheeple culture, AND MAKE MORE SOBER FROM CULTURE CHANGES it carries over to the trail including having a lesser effect on appetite. I truly believe if we do this it greatly assists lowering consumption and a more normalized non roller coasting appetite on trail. It's what is commonly observed in those living a "hiking life." Listen to what some thru hikers/LD hikers say they learned after a thru hike or much time spent in Nature or outside of U.S. culture for long periods. Listen to the changes they often make. Listen to what they became aware. Listen to those who are from other cultures. Listen to the changes some make. It's because they often become more aware. Culture affects appetites!

    I don't experience a significant loss or change of appetite on trail. I may increase dietary consumption though on a LD hike. I attempt to not have such a drastically different diet and attitudes of consumption off trail as on trail. I attempt to keep my blood sugar from roller coasting. I dont excessively eat and drink out of emotions, boredom(I dont even know what that is anymore),.... I question drivers and triggers and motives. This is not what most in the U.S. want to hear though. It means making awareness and behavioral changes that run counter culture. My body wt and body fat percentage for the last 25 yrs has never varied by more than 12%. I'm far from perfect with my appetites and diet but at least I know to question and am willing to change behaviors.

  7. #47
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    I have the same problem with eating during long distance exercise and it can really drag you down on long hikes. I find that the things that I have the easiest time with are powdered drinks (diluted Gatorade) and simple carbohydrates. I can usually eat oatmeal in the morning with some brown sugar and dehydrated fruit or instant grits. I can sometimes eat PB&J on a tortilla or crackers for lunch but often can't even do that. For dinner I dehydrate my own meals and try to work in some protein but have a lot of simple carbs by necessity. Pasta and rice dishes are usually OK but Idahoan mashed potatoes are the easiest (I add a little chicken boullion powder and ghee for flavor and calories.) A steady intake of small amounts of carbs/sugar during the day can help offset the calorie deficit and keep you from bonking during your hike. Protein is a real problem for me - sometimes nuts or jerky is tolerable in small quantities in the mid-morning but it's not close to what I need. I just do what I can do. If I ever get a chance to do a thru hike I'm not sure how it will work out long-term

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuneElliot View Post
    So we all hear about hiker hunger from thru-hikers, and I know I've read about others not feeling hungry on the first day or two of a hike, but what about consistent hiker non-hunger.

    I just got done with 80 miles and 5 1/2 days on the Uinta Highline Trail in Utah and I could barely eat. I carry stuff I usually love to eat off trail but I could barely bring myself to eat anything and I only made dinner on the first two nights. Cheese sticks and peanut M&Ms were about the only things I could choke down and half enjoy but the rest of the time I really had to force myself to eat, even my chocolate chip cookies were tough to swallow.

    I find I am less inclined to eat when I do a lot of miles (for me) and pushing my body with the exertion. I find food more favorable when I hike less miles, but then I also need less calories. On this last hike I lost almost 4lbs which may not sound like much to most people but I am already very slender and really can't afford to lose weight like that...the next trip could put me dangerously underweight for my size. (I'm currently at 110lbs and 5'5", anything less than that wouldn't be healthy as my recommended lowest weight SHOULD be 115lbs).

    So how do others deal with the issue of hiker non-hunger like this? I hope I'm not the only one to feel like this and would like to hear from others.
    Like you I do not want to lose weight. Im 6’0 190 lbs. but fairly lean. It is easy to lose appetite when exerting yourself, during high heat, at elevation, and when anxious/excited about the journey.

    My strategy is to carry only foods that I love. And that I don’t eat regularly off trail. I start the day by packing my hip belt pockets and my pack’s outer mesh pocket with the day’s rations. (My trail
    name is Snackpack ) I eat while hiking most of the day. I find it easy to just skip food if it is is buried in the pack. Same with hydration.

    FWIW I’m working toward a lower carb diet and I am becoming fat adapted. I don’t bonk like I used to. You may want to research keto diets and fat adapted athletes. I really enjoy dark chocolate (85%) and nut butters in squeeze pouches. If I stop I’ll have cheese and an epic bar. A lot of people bonk because their mitochondria are used to burning glucose primarily. Without carbs coming in you quickly run out of stored glycogen and must switch over to fat burning. (Most people don’t do this because they start eating high carb snacks to keep fueling the cells with glucose).This is easier when fat adapted. Your body also learns to use stored fat and your energy stays high without food. I realize you don’t want to lose body fat.

    Hydrate well, use electrolyte supplements and eat when you get hungry. Keep the snacks handy. Sometimes I will carry my next snack in hand to remind myself to eat. If my belt pockets are empty I reload from the large mesh pocket. I hope this helps.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliotrope View Post
    Like you I do not want to lose weight. Im 6’0 190 lbs. but fairly lean. It is easy to lose appetite when exerting yourself, during high heat, at elevation, and when anxious/excited about the journey.
    My strategy is to carry only foods that I love. And that I don’t eat regularly off trail. I start the day by packing my hip belt pockets and my pack’s outer mesh pocket with the day’s rations. (My trail name is Snackpack ) I eat while hiking most of the day. I find it easy to just skip food if it is is buried in the pack. Same with hydration.
    FWIW I’m working toward a lower carb diet and I am becoming fat adapted. I don’t bonk like I used to. You may want to research keto diets and fat adapted athletes. I really enjoy dark chocolate (85%) and nut butters in squeeze pouches. If I stop I’ll have cheese and an epic bar. A lot of people bonk because their mitochondria are used to burning glucose primarily. Without carbs coming in you quickly run out of stored glycogen and must switch over to fat burning. (Most people don’t do this because they start eating high carb snacks to keep fueling the cells with glucose).This is easier when fat adapted. Your body also learns to use stored fat and your energy stays high without food. I realize you don’t want to lose body fat.
    Hydrate well, use electrolyte supplements and eat when you get hungry. Keep the snacks handy. Sometimes I will carry my next snack in hand to remind myself to eat. If my belt pockets are empty I reload from the large mesh pocket. I hope this helps.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It sounds like you do a lot of the same stuff I do re having all food in hipbelt or oustide pockets. I tend to maintain a fairly low-carb diet mostly, not because I do keto or anything, but because most carbs just don't interest me. I eat little bread or bread products, very little or no candy, I don't care much for potatoes (except sweet potatoes) and only some rice. Pasta is the only carb I eat on a moderate basis. My trail food is generally nuts, cheese, pepperoni or meat sticks but I do throw some sugary stuff in there too that I don't eat in every day life because I'm hiking, and dinner is usually pasta because it is easy for FB cooking. I don't think I've ever bonked...tired, yes, sore, yes, but never really felt out of energy, well except maybe one time but I think it was more to do with the ridiculously long steep hill.

    Thanks for your input though.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliotrope View Post
    Like you I do not want to lose weight. Im 6’0 190 lbs. but fairly lean. It is easy to lose appetite when exerting yourself, during high heat, at elevation, and when anxious/excited about the journey.
    My strategy is to carry only foods that I love. And that I don’t eat regularly off trail. I start the day by packing my hip belt pockets and my pack’s outer mesh pocket with the day’s rations. (My trail name is Snackpack ) I eat while hiking most of the day. I find it easy to just skip food if it is is buried in the pack. Same with hydration.
    FWIW I’m working toward a lower carb diet and I am becoming fat adapted. I don’t bonk like I used to. You may want to research keto diets and fat adapted athletes. I really enjoy dark chocolate (85%) and nut butters in squeeze pouches. If I stop I’ll have cheese and an epic bar. A lot of people bonk because their mitochondria are used to burning glucose primarily. Without carbs coming in you quickly run out of stored glycogen and must switch over to fat burning. (Most people don’t do this because they start eating high carb snacks to keep fueling the cells with glucose).This is easier when fat adapted. Your body also learns to use stored fat and your energy stays high without food. I realize you don’t want to lose body fat.
    Hydrate well, use electrolyte supplements and eat when you get hungry. Keep the snacks handy. Sometimes I will carry my next snack in hand to remind myself to eat. If my belt pockets are empty I reload from the large mesh pocket. I hope this helps.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It sounds like you do a lot of the same stuff I do re having all food in hipbelt or oustide pockets. I tend to maintain a fairly low-carb diet mostly, not because I do keto or anything, but because most carbs just don't interest me. I eat little bread or bread products, very little or no candy, I don't care much for potatoes (except sweet potatoes) and only some rice. Pasta is the only carb I eat on a moderate basis. My trail food is generally nuts, cheese, pepperoni or meat sticks but I do throw some sugary stuff in there too that I don't eat in every day life because I'm hiking, and dinner is usually pasta because it is easy for FB cooking. I don't think I've ever bonked...tired, yes, sore, yes, but never really felt out of energy, well except maybe one time but I think it was more to do with the ridiculously long steep hill.

    Thanks for your input though.

  11. #51
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    Exercise lowers levels of ghrelin, which has the effect to reduce hunger.
    It is possible too, that, despite you are slender, you have to much organ fat (that fat is the most unhealthy fat in body). In that case your metabolism might reverse a prediabetic situation through fasting and reduces the excess organ fat. (It is possible to estimate the amount of organ fat with the waist to hip ratio). After 5 days hunger should come back at the very latest.

    If you want to increase your appetite, you can use the tricks that are used by food industry to make us overeat their junk:

    -Start with an appetizer sugar or ev. alcohol- a bitter wild Plant like dandelion will do too.
    - add monosodium glutamate to your food
    - mix sugar, salt and fat with your food
    - ad a little surprise, something crunchy and/or pepper and /or something sour tasting
    - snack something in between that makes you think it has not been eaten, but just vanished out of your mouth like chips, cream, peanut butter..

  12. #52

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    Been there done that, but on recent hikes I have gone keto (low carb, moderate protein, high fat). Totally solved the hunger issue. For the first time I walked out the woods after 5 days with a lot of extra food that I simply did not eat.

    Physiologically I think that your body will scream for more food if the nutritional content is low (yes, Little Debbie!). Conversely, hunger is moderated if you eat highly nutritious food. And I don't mean fruits and vegetables, which are very low in nutrients. Do your own research to find out what the most nutritious foods are. Or ask a cave man from 10,000 years ago. Some things never change.

  13. #53
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    I did 75 miles in 6 days in the Shenandoah and had the exact same experience. Normally when I day hike its not an issue, or even just doing low mile days backpacking. But having pumped out higher miles than my body was used to really changed my appetite I think. I had to force myself to eat every day, it wasn't hot, I didn't dislike my food, and I wasn't nauseous per say, I just didn't want to eat. When I got back my stomach didn't feel right for 3-4 days and I still wasn't that hungry. I didn't loose any weight but I also have probably 15 lbs to loose haha. The shock of so much exertion maybe slowing down the gastrointestinal tract, the body wants to use the energy that would normally be processing food to propel your body. This is just my suspicion anyway. Not exactly a good thing if you don't have anything to loose already though!

  14. #54
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    Try another month on the trail

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