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  1. #21
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadeye View Post
    Blanket policies and regulations are usually in place because of a lack of good judgement...
    Yea, it takes just a few to not follow the rules that leads to more restrictive rules for everyone.

  2. #22
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    In PA, both State Parks (the A.T. passes through Caledonia and Pine Grove Furnace state parks, and Swatara State Park), and State Game Lands (many miles, basically most of the A.T. north from the Cumberland Valley to Delaware Water Gap are in SGL) ban alcohol.

  3. #23
    Registered User BuckeyeBill's Avatar
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    Eleven years sober does have its advantages. Having hike many a trail in my life, I can count less than 10 times that I would have considered a group getting out of hand. Most of the time everyone was to tired to sit up and pound drinks/beer even if they had it. The other times were at campgrounds and hostels/motels and were the group that were on the trail to party, not hike. This meant I could get up early and get out ahead of them.

    In my state we have wildlife officers to enforce hunting/fishing regulations and park rangers with full arrest powers in state run parks. The one national forest in the state is covered by national park rangers. I don't mind people who can drink responsibly as long as they are not driving. Drink, stay quiet and make an effort to hide what you are drinking and your chances of getting charged are greatly reduced, but don't b**ch when you are charged.
    Blackheart

  4. #24

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    Whether allowed or not,
    If you got to drink when you're out hiking or camping
    Know that you have a problem

  5. #25

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    "Responsible" drinking in a park that bans alcohol is akin to "responsible" speeding on a road with a posted 35 mph speed limit.

  6. #26
    Registered User cneill13's Avatar
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    Reason number 5,468 why I would never, ever camp in a state park. Thank God for the N. Georgia mountains. 900,000+ acres of national forest with only one rule - Leave no trace.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    "Responsible" drinking in a park that bans alcohol is akin to "responsible" speeding on a road with a posted 35 mph speed limit.
    The problem with this metaphor is that driving over the speed limit has a direct effect on others. However if I quietly have one beer in my campsite, I am not impacting others.

    The way I look at it is that banning alcohol in parks is like punishing the people who are innocent. It would be nice if they could ban the bad behavior (not alcohol). If someone behaves badly (for any reason), throw them out and ban them for life. Let us responsible people enjoy in peace. I appreciate that the reality of the situation makes that solution impractical, but in on-line discussion fora, we can dare to dream the impossible.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    ...However if I quietly have one beer in my campsite, I am not impacting others...
    At least not until that one drink becomes 5...8...10 and then you get drunk and unruly.

    Sure you say you're only drinking one beer. But if we let you drink that one beer, there's going to be "that guy" that's going to drink 10 (and tell any LEO around that he's only on his 1st as he cracks open the 8th). So because of "that guy", no one is allowed to drink.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    ........The way I look at it is that banning alcohol in parks is like punishing the people who are innocent.....
    Fair point. There are a lot of rules in life like that. The ones that get my goat are the ones in everyday life that make things inconvenient for people who are responsible because of the actions of a few knuckleheads. Example - deposits on cans and bottles so when irresponsible people litter somebody will pick up their trash, bans on plastic bags so irresponsible people can not cause problems with them, etc., etc.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  10. #30
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Of course then there's the random goofiness that sometimes comes with "government" getting involved...

    Case-in-point was a news story I heard on NPR this morning. In some city, an exterminator was using Dry Ice as a safer method of killing rats. Rather than laying out POISON, he would find the rat burros and drop dry ice in them. The dry ice would evaporate filling the hole with CO2 killing the rats without leaving poisons in the environment.

    Well the "government" made him stop using dry ice because it wasn't an "approved pesticide". Some company came up with the brilliant idea of getting 'their' dry ice tested and approved as a pesticide. So the exterminator can now go back to using dry ice, but he has to go out of his way to get the dry ice from 'this' company at 3x the cost (even though there is absolutely nothing special about 'their' dry ice... it's still the same dry ice you get from any other dry ice supplier).

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    "Responsible" drinking in a park that bans alcohol is akin to "responsible" speeding on a road with a posted 35 mph speed limit.
    Not really. When I camped in a GA state park a while back, I asked the ranger if I could drink. He said technically, it's not allowed, but the reason for the rule was to make it easier to kick out rowdy and noisy folks. As long as I was quiet, and not out in the open with it, they were fine with it.
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    There really does need to be a LIKE button!!!
    Like (ten character)
    Time is but the stream I go afishin' in.
    Thoreau

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Not really. When I camped in a GA state park a while back, I asked the ranger if I could drink. He said technically, it's not allowed, but the reason for the rule was to make it easier to kick out rowdy and noisy folks. As long as I was quiet, and not out in the open with it, they were fine with it.
    So like speeding, if you aren't caught and there is no accident no tickets are issued. I get it.

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by perdidochas View Post
    Not really. When I camped in a GA state park a while back, I asked the ranger if I could drink. He said technically, it's not allowed, but the reason for the rule was to make it easier to kick out rowdy and noisy folks. As long as I was quiet, and not out in the open with it, they were fine with it.
    This ^^. Just have a peek at the recycling dumpsters at the exits - I'd say over 50% of the bottles/cans are booze.

    I'm personally glad to see the no-alcohol signs (and I enjoy a drink or two during dinner/evening), stayed at too many alcohol-permitted campgrounds that needed eyeshades and earplugs for the late night party-goers - bon fires, bright lanterns, music, and drunken rowdiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
    So like speeding, if you aren't caught and there is no accident no tickets are issued. I get it.
    I find it dangerous not to speed. In SW CT the speed limits seem to be set ridiculously low and the norm is easily ~10mph over the limit. If your doing the speed limit on a two-lane road around here (where passing zones are extremely rare), then you've got a line of road-raging drivers piling up behind you. The only place the cops seem to care about 10-over, are the school zones.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Whether allowed or not,
    If you got to drink when you're out hiking or camping
    Know that you have a problem
    I would have argued this vociferously several years back. I try not to use absolutes, but I now understand or believe that, yes, if a person can't have a good time without drinking, they probably have a problem. For me, it took about a year (of going without) before I realized I was enjoying a public event without chemical assistance.

  16. #36

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    As a law enforcement officer, for a state forest, this thread was painful to read. One of my favorite movie quotes "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Laws are in place to manage the people. Sorry, but we are all one of the people.

  17. #37
    Registered User Speakeasy TN's Avatar
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    It's amazing that we have an endless supply of "why do I have to follow the rules?" threads.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by greenmtnboy View Post
    I have seen a few of the free or low cost hiker hostels affected by rambunctious, disorderly behavior involving alcohol use, some close to all hikers. Connecticut has strict regulations at many parks against the consumption of alcohol. I can see cause for enforcement for disorderly behavior, but not for responsible beer drinking, etc.. I was talking to a former campground worker at Macedonia brook near Kent who talked about a lot of evictions of drinkers at Macedonia, Kent Falls and other parks. That is very disturbing if you have responsible drinking; so you have the ugly specter of some park workers lurking and creeping around looking to catch drinkers and then have the other authorities evict them from the parks. This is Napoleonic law; judging and convicting people without real probable cause. What do you think?
    What do I think? Speaking of backpackers---since I never car camp or visit car campgrounds---or State Parks---so speaking of backbackers---I take a dim view of backpackers bringing out alcohol in any form. This is probably because I struggled with alcohol addiction all thru my 4 years in the USAF and I finally kicked the habit in 1973 after hitting bottom in a bad way. Irresponsible drinker? Yes I was. And it was tough to quit. 45 years now SOBER.

    So, when I see backpackers hauling out booze I understand their intentions are often NOT to commune with nature in a wilderness setting but to commune with alcohol next to a big bonfire in a social setting. They tend therefore to howl thru the night like monkeys and demand a big bonfire no matter the wind conditions. Anyone camping nearby be damned.

    And the morning after? Well, we "normal" people have to pick up the pieces---I found this mess at a campsite on the Benton MacKaye trail after the Miscreants were long gone---

    They left not only their booze bottles---which I gathered from out of the woods---but they also left their junk tent and poles as trash in the firepit.


  19. #39
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    I use Everclear responsibly in my stoves.

  20. #40
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    My guess is rowdiness is involved.


    alcohol and rowdiness?

    no.......say it ain't so......

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