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  1. #1
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    Default Privy: Doesn't Belong in the Back Country

    "Nice idea, but does not belong in the back country and should not be maintained by volunteers!!!"

    This was the graffiti drawn on the privy at Tricorner Knob shelter in GSMNP.

    I'm having problem interpreting this in any other way other than the ignorant rambling of an entitled millennial that seems to think the National Park Service has built these privies for their "comfort" rather than for the protection of the back country.



    Yea, this post is mostly a rant... but in case there are any ignorant hiker like the author of this graffiti out there reading this... those privies were built to protect the back country from the destruction causes by large number of people digging cat holes in a concentrated area and instead "collects" human waste in a way that allows the waste to be composted.

  2. #2

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    Perhaps was referring to wheelchair accessible aspect to comply with ADA?

    Because its horse accessible, the privy was rebuilt as handicap accessible some yrs ago. 2012 ish. People that dont know horses are allowed on that part AT question how wheelchair could get there. Theres a hitching post on AT above shelter if I recall.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 08-13-2018 at 22:42.

  3. #3

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    In the same vein as an article on Backpacker Magazine's FB page regarding the existence of cairns and trails

  4. #4
    GSMNP 900 Miler
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Perhaps was referring to wheelchair accessible aspect to comply with ADA?
    Perhaps... if it had been written on the wall near the retractable handicap bar.

    But the graffiti was written on the door... and I don't see the link between ADA access and volunteers?
    The bar is the only thing that makes this privy look ADA compliant; because otherwise, the only thing else that makes it ADA compliant (other than size) is the "ramp" that leads to the entrance. But in this case, the privy is built on a hillside such that the entrance is level with the ground and a level "ramp" would be he most appropriate entrance even it not trying to make is ADA compliant.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Perhaps... if it had been written on the wall near the retractable handicap bar.

    But the graffiti was written on the door... and I don't see the link between ADA access and volunteers?
    The bar is the only thing that makes this privy look ADA compliant; because otherwise, the only thing else that makes it ADA compliant (other than size) is the "ramp" that leads to the entrance. But in this case, the privy is built on a hillside such that the entrance is level with the ground and a level "ramp" would be he most appropriate entrance even it not trying to make is ADA compliant.
    Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by illabelle View Post
    Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.
    ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
    ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.
    i personally am eagerly waiting for the day when a hiker who is able to reach madison spring hut needs to use the wheelchair ramp to access it because they cant go up 3 steps.

  8. #8
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    How does the Government reconcile the Wilderness Act and the ADA?
    My old fuzzy brain recalls the Wilderness Act predates the ADA. The Wilderness Act doesn’t allow wheeled conveyances.
    Meanwhile, on a personal pet peeve topic, a bridge on Vallecito Creek washed away years ago. The Forest Service says that rebuilding the bridge is against provisions of the Wilderness Act. Conversely, the San Juan NF authorized the use of helicopters to study bighorn sheep within the Weminuche.
    Go figure.
    On topic: There is no accounting for human behavior.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    P. S. :
    Have any of you visited the Ranger guided cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde NP?
    Wayne

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    I have no idea if this was a Millennial, but anyone who thinks it is OK to deface a trail structure with graffiti is a self-entitled ignoramus. Does he or she think that the GRAFFITI improved the forest experience?? If you have an opinion on what belongs in the backcountry, feel free to express it by donating countless hours of your time learning what is and isn't good for the trail, then getting out there and actually improving it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    P. S. :
    Have any of you visited the Ranger guided cliff dwellings at Mesa Verde NP?
    Wayne
    Yea those pueblo indians sure were terrible at LNT!

  12. #12
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4web88 View Post
    Yea those pueblo indians sure were terrible at LNT!
    This discussion makes me wonder about the ADA and access to places like Cliff Palace.
    Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    This discussion makes me wonder about the ADA and access to places like Cliff Palace.
    Wayne
    Joking aside it is really tough to strike a good balance in that aspect without having too much impact. Not an easy problem and definitely wont have an easy solution.

  14. #14
    Is it raining yet?
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    But who would do the suing?
    Be Prepared

  15. #15

    Default

    Just as so y'all have the correct info, the ADA applies to current and future buildings: "ensures access to the built environment for people with disabilities. The ADA Standards establish design requirements for the construction and alteration of facilities subject to the law. These enforceable standards apply to places of public accommodation, commercial facilities, and state and local government facilities."

    This doesn't mean that EVERYTHING in the US has be accessible

  16. #16

    Default

    A good link for outdoor recreation ADA compliance:

    https://www.access-board.gov/guideli...eveloped-areas

  17. #17
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    The new privies the MATC is putting in are all ADA compliant. It was cheaper to build them that way than to file for an exception. The first one I saw was at a stealth campsite just before South Arm Rd. It was like something out of a comedy for the absurd. One either has to go over a mountain range, or cross a brook with steep banks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by illabelle View Post
    Additionally, only a portion of the AT through the park is open to horses. I don't think the ADA stuff is happening only in those areas.

    Theres an ADA privy at Leconte shelter.....

  19. #19
    13-45 Section Hiker Trash Berserker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Yea, this post is mostly a rant... but in case there are any ignorant hiker like the author of this graffiti out there reading this... those privies were built to protect the back country from the destruction causes by large number of people digging cat holes in a concentrated area and instead "collects" human waste in a way that allows the waste to be composted.
    Agreed. A good example of what an area looks like without a privy is Rufus Morgan shelter in NC right before the NOC. It's been a while since I've been there, but I remember the entire embankment behind the shelter being the toilet, and it was freakin nasty.

    Quote Originally Posted by D2maine View Post
    ADA privies are happening all along the AT - its because the law does not make exceptions for the trail and if the clubs along the trail replaced privies with a new privies that are not ADA they will be sued. Same is happening with lean-too's look for them to have ADA accessibility whenever they get replaced.
    I personally like the ADA privies because they are much larger. As someone that is 6'-5" tall and hates privies, I'll sometimes avoid the smaller ones because I don't like doing my business with my knees up against the door.
    AT: 2007-2019 (45 sections)
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  20. #20
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    Default

    I'm having problem interpreting this in any other way other than the ignorant rambling of an entitled millennial that seems to think the National Park Service has built these privies for their "comfort" rather than for the protection of the back country.


    how do you know it's a millennial that is doing the defacing?

    after all----the people that were suing the Park over the backcountry fees were also against privies like this...

    and those guys are far from being millennial...

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