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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    ...given that it's basically being reported that the victim was a ginseng poacher... there is the possibility:
    1. He might have encountered another ginseng poacher and was killed as the result of an argument over "territory".
    2. Given his proximity to residential areas, he might have entered private property, was shot by a homeowner, retreated to woods where he died of gun shot wounds.
    Yep, reasonable speculation I think. Still, officials felt threatened enough by the bear to shoot it, and these should be folks that know what aggressive bear activity is and isn't. Regardless if the bear didn't make the kill, acting aggressive as if to protect their "food" (that's an assumption which might be incorrect) in this case would indicate a survival instinct that is overriding the natural fear instinct we've always seen from black bears in the east. Or maybe with reduced hunting, they're going back to as they were, perhaps more similar to those out west. Again, speculation.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
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  2. #22
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    After all, in the last 25 years, I don't recall ever hearing any news stories of someone getting murdered in GSMNP.


    let me do some searches, but it has happened.....

  3. #23
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    1. He might have encountered another ginseng poacher and was killed as the result of an argument over "territory



    like maybe his partner who waited two days to call it in........


    but again, pure speculation...

    we have calls into the Park cause as a new organization, we want to know as well...

    i will pass that info on when i get it...

  4. #24
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    In general, no they don't.


    in twenty years of living in this area----i've covered 2 deaths due to bears...

    one in the Park...........and one in Cherokee National Forest...

    the one in the Park----i had seen the same two bears two days earlier pretty much at the same place where she was killed............i was warned that the bears were kinda aggressive...

  5. #25
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    acting aggressive as if to protect their "food" (that's an assumption which might be incorrect)


    no.....that is correct...

    when rangers found the body---the bear was being aggressive towards them as well.....

    another factor which led them to put it down...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    like maybe his partner who waited two days to call it in........
    Seems that poachers have an unwritten rule that includes a two day waiting period before reporting someone missing.

    Remember about this time last year when a father/son poacher team got separated in the park, and it took two days before the father reported the son missing. It took several more days before the boy found his own way out of the woods safely.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    let me do some searches, but it has happened.....



    found a couple...

    there also have been incidents where murder suspects have been caught in the Park...

    along with (at least one) where bodies have been buried in the Park but killed outside the Park....


    als0----david brill put out a book earlier this year that mentions some homicides within the Park...

    Special agents with ISB and the Charlotte Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) are investigating the murder of a man that took place on March 29, 2015. The 25-year-old man's body was found inside the Smokemont Baptist Church (also known as the Oconaluftee Baptist Church) within the boundaries of Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The historic church is near the Smokemont Campground; it has been reopened to visitors.

    https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/knoxville/press-releases/2013/russian-national-convicted-of-2002-double-homicide-committed-in-gatlinburg

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation traced Solovyev to Moscow, where he admitted to the Russian authorities in 2010 that he stole more than $19,000 in cash from the victims and buried their bodies in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, but he claimed an unidentified man named “Alex,” unknown to the U.S. investigation, committed the murders.



    https://www.oxygen.com/snapped/crime-time/woman-lover-bludgeon-husband-baseball-bat-push-body-cliff


    this is one where it looked like an accident but was determined to be a homicide....


    i also remember a stabbing---or more like a hacking----by a guy at abrams campground...............two drunks were fighting and one guy hacked the other to death....





  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    let me do some searches, but it has happened.....
    I recall some attacks... like the woman who was on the Gatlinburg trial (I think) and was seemingly randomly attacked by a guy with a knife.
    But I don't recall murders. Obviously not outside the realm of possibility, I just don't recall any stories along those lines (but then, I don't live around there, so it would only be things making national news I would hear).

    [Update]
    Ok, I see you found some information... but then none of them appear to be "murder inside GSMNP".
    Last edited by HooKooDooKu; 09-13-2018 at 14:50.

  9. #29
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    (but then, I don't live around there, so it would only be things making national news I would hear).


    yeah....

    with me being in the news world---mainly local-----and since i have an interest in the Park, I hear these things...

  10. #30
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    but then none of them appear to be "murder inside GSMNP".


    yeah, they are....

    the one inside smokemont church...

    abrams falls campground...'

    those two places are within the Park...


    also-----and this was more along the blue ridge parkway between cherokee and maggie's valley but it was a GSMNP ranger-----a ranger got shot and killed along the Parkway back in 99 or 2000.....

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by scope View Post
    In general, no they don't.
    Not talking about "in general"

    So yes, it happens
    In general, no one wins the lottery either.
    But someone always does.

    In general, no one gets murdered by other people, per encounter with them.

    But one out of every few million tickets purchased does win lottery.

    And the average person might encounter dozens of people per day. Times 400 million people....and dozens per day are murdered in US. Chance on any 1 encounter is less than 1 per 10 billion...but it happens.
    And 1 out of every few million bear encounters....turns out badly for sure. Actually, frequency would be less probably.

    The # of close encounters...is simply so low, its very infrequent. Like i said. But ..yes...it happens...given time and #s. Eventally an AT hiker WILL be killed by a bear. Simply matter of time.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-13-2018 at 16:21.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Well, lets hope the bear just stumbled on an easy meal laying in the trail. Not that it would make this any less tragic, but knowing the bear was not the actual cause of death would be reassuring.
    My guess is that the bear encountered Hill along the road, mauled him and then dragged the body off to hide it. Nowadays, with the lack of hunting pressure, the critters are losing their fear of man. I used to only carry bear spray in grizzly country, but now I tote it in any area inhabited by bears.


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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    yeah, they are....
    Based on your description, the drunks at abrams falls sounded more like a fight and not intentional murder (so in this case, yes someone killed in the park, but it wasn't murder).
    Otherwise, looking at the articles you linked too, the other incidences seemed to involve a murder committed outside the park and the park was used as a dumping ground.

    But in any case, we'll say that homicides have been committed in (or near) the park. But interestingly enough, that all seem to have happened in front country... none of them seemed to have happened in the back country. If that is the case AND if this man's death is ruled a homicide, it sounds like it would be the the 1st back country homicide in GSMNP.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Not talking about "in general"

    So yes, it happens
    In general, no one wins the lottery either.
    But someone always does.

    In general, no one gets murdered by other people, per encounter with them.

    But one out of every few million tickets purchased does win lottery.

    And the average person might encounter dozens of people per day. Times 400 million people....and dozens per day are murdered in US. Chance on any 1 encounter is less than 1 per 10 billion...but it happens.
    And 1 out of every few million bear encounters....turns out badly for sure. Actually, frequency would be less probably.

    The # of close encounters...is simply so low, its very infrequent. Like i said. But ..yes...it happens...given time and #s. Eventally an AT hiker WILL be killed by a bear. Simply matter of time.
    I get what you're saying and mostly agree with you. There's a time when I would have vehemently disagreed with you.

    As a matter of how you're saying it, though... How many murders by other people? How many win the lottery? How many deaths from bears in a similar time period? Doesn't fit. Again, I get what you're going for there. We should all be aware of the real possibility, though we should all be realistic about it, too.
    "I wonder if anyone else has an ear so tuned and sharpened as I have, to detect the music, not of the spheres, but of earth, subtleties of major and minor chord that the wind strikes upon the tree branches. Have you ever heard the earth breathe... ?"
    - Kate Chopin

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    (so in this case, yes someone killed in the park, but it wasn't murder).

    ok.....homicide then.........



    it sounds like it would be the the 1st back country homicide in GSMNP.

    i'll look at david brill's book when i get home but he may have one listed.......

    and not sure if i would really call this incident the backcountry either since he was found a half mile off of a road..........

    its in the woods, but not deep in the backcountry....



    Otherwise, looking at the articles you linked too, the other incidences seemed to involve a murder committed outside the park and the park was used as a dumping ground.


    yes.....and i believe i noted that...

    however, the guy was stabbed to death in the church at smokemont so thats a homicide within the Park...

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Clifton View Post
    My guess is that the bear encountered Hill along the road, mauled him and then dragged the body off to hide it...
    1. The guy was looking for ginseng, so I doubt he was simply along the road.
    2. I don't see a bear hauling a body a half mile into the woods.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    1. The guy was looking for ginseng, so I doubt he was simply along the road.
    2. I don't see a bear hauling a body a half mile into the woods.
    Your theory begs the question: how did they find him so quick a half mile into the woods? My guess is they were searching along the road, saw signs of a struggle and tracks indicating that a body was dragged through the woods. As far as a fully grown aggressive black bear dragging a 200 pound body a half a mile, piece of cake!


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    how did they find him so quick a half mile into the woods?


    who said they found him quickly?

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    for the record----

    they started the search sunday...............

    they searched monday....

    they found him around 1 pm on tuesday......

    this is all according to the press release the Park sent out....

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    My guess is they were searching along the road, saw signs of a struggle and tracks indicating that a body was dragged through the woods


    also, for the record----according to the press release---"the search continued throughout Monday, focusing on high probablitity areas such as drainages in the area where Hill was last seen".............

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