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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    How you know that she wasn't carrying a weapon?
    Actually,I do not know that she wasn't carrying a weapon.However,I do know that here in Georgia in the last 6 months there was a rabid coyote killed by a hiker with a pocket knife and somebody's granny in North Georgia literally strangled a rabid bob cat that attacked her.Therefore,I have drawn the conclusion the hiker either did not have any effective means of self defense or perhaps no means of self defense at all as so many hikers I know carry absolutely nothing for self defense.Having seen a really large bob cat a couple times,I can't bring myself to join the "no weapons" club.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Actually,I do not know that she wasn't carrying a weapon.However,I do know that here in Georgia in the last 6 months there was a rabid coyote killed by a hiker with a pocket knife and somebody's granny in North Georgia literally strangled a rabid bob cat that attacked her.Therefore,I have drawn the conclusion the hiker either did not have any effective means of self defense or perhaps no means of self defense at all as so many hikers I know carry absolutely nothing for self defense.Having seen a really large bob cat a couple times,I can't bring myself to join the "no weapons" club.
    Not quite the same as 120-150 lb cougar landing on your back suddenly, knocking you to ground, and clamping its jaws into your neck before you know whats happened. Then its going to shake you to break your neck.

    Not simple to attack something on your back when your face down .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Actually,I do not know that she wasn't carrying a weapon.However,I do know that here in Georgia in the last 6 months there was a rabid coyote killed by a hiker with a pocket knife and somebody's granny in North Georgia literally strangled a rabid bob cat that attacked her.Therefore,I have drawn the conclusion the hiker either did not have any effective means of self defense or perhaps no means of self defense at all as so many hikers I know carry absolutely nothing for self defense.Having seen a really large bob cat a couple times,I can't bring myself to join the "no weapons" club.


    Did you read the article from the link the OP posted?

    said that she fought her attacker.....

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    Did you read the article from the link the OP posted?

    said that she fought her attacker.....
    Yes,I read it.It said she fought but that does not mean she fought with anything more than bare hands.Look,I am sorry this happened and a lady died.My only point is that people should at least consider carrying something with them in the event they should need it.So many people I know carry nothing at all.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Not quite the same as 120-150 lb cougar landing on your back suddenly, knocking you to ground, and clamping its jaws into your neck before you know whats happened. Then its going to shake you to break your neck.


    Not simple to attack something on your back when your face down .
    I thot you said in post #20 that backpacks protect hikers necks?So I am left to conclude that it was a frontal assault since there was evidence she fought back.We don't know if she had a weapon for self defense or not or if she had time to use it.It was a tragedy and my heart goes out to her loved ones.I only commented because people need to consider what preparations they might make should they find themselves in similar circumstances.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    I thot you said in post #20 that backpacks protect hikers necks?So I am left to conclude that it was a frontal assault since there was evidence she fought back.We don't know if she had a weapon for self defense or not or if she had time to use it.It was a tragedy and my heart goes out to her loved ones.I only commented because people need to consider what preparations they might make should they find themselves in similar circumstances.
    She dayhiker most likely
    Found 2 mi from her car

    Not a backpacker

    Backpackers have an inherent deterent to attack
    Because cat cannot see their neck from behind

    While it certainly could happen
    Predators do not normally attack prey head on

    They live by expending minimum energy, because many pursuits are fruitless. In many cases, the prey is faster or more agile or can run farther and predator loses a drawn out pursuit.

    Which is why surprise attack from blind area is method.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 09-15-2018 at 09:03.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Here's a comment-If the biker or the hiker had carried some sort of weapon there is a good chance they would have survived.My 4 inch Mora does not weigh much and might have fit the bill.So the question in my mind is "why would anyone go out in cougar country totally defenseless?"
    The number of cougar attacks is relatively small:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._North_America

    Seems like a disproportionate number of the attacks were perpetrated against children or women (who might be assumed to be of relatively small stature), with recent attacks on a couple of mountain bikers being noteworthy.

    Your point on not being defenseless is well taken, however. There are other risks to be considered as well.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    The number of cougar attacks is relatively small:



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._North_America

    Seems like a disproportionate number of the attacks were perpetrated against children or women (who might be assumed to be of relatively small stature), with recent attacks on a couple of mountain bikers being noteworthy.

    Your point on not being defenseless is well taken, however. There are other risks to be considered as well.
    Maybe I am hyper sensitive to the personal defense issue since a high school class mate of mine was murdered on a trail in Georgia.(not the AT btw)Bad things happen to good people all the time.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Five Tango View Post
    Maybe I am hyper sensitive to the personal defense issue since a high school class mate of mine was murdered on a trail in Georgia.(not the AT btw)Bad things happen to good people all the time.
    Agree 100%.

    With regard to the AT, more thru hikers have died at the hand of a complete stranger (5 or 6) than from lightening, snakes, bears, hypothermia , drowning, or falls combined.

    It has always stuck me as odd why so many look to understand and mitigate the risk of the latter, but wish to deny and ignore the risk (small though it may be) of the former.

  10. #30

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    In other countries a mask is worn as a deter ant:


    Last edited by zelph; 09-15-2018 at 14:36.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Agree 100%.

    With regard to the AT, more thru hikers have died at the hand of a complete stranger (5 or 6) than from lightening, snakes, bears, hypothermia , drowning, or falls combined.

    It has always stuck me as odd why so many look to understand and mitigate the risk of the latter, but wish to deny and ignore the risk (small though it may be) of the former.
    I agree the risk is overall low and while you might be technically correct since you limit your assertion to AT thru-hiking, I believe those other threats you listed overall are a higher threat to backpackers: https://www.backpacker.com/survival/a-dozen-ways-to-die.

    Also remember that being active is a lot safer then sitting on your couch every day or spending your days driving around in a car, so factor that in as well. I for one, try to understand and mitigate all the risks of any activity I'm doing but I certainly won't let the risks keep me doing stuff.

    Finally I believe your main point is learn or think about self-defense and I certainly don't disagree with you on that!

  12. #32
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    I'm loving those masks! Great idea. What is the predator they are doing this for I'm curious?

    I'd love to see this on the AT. The trail names would be fun!

    Two Face
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    While searching for that unknown edge in life, never forget to look home. For the greatest edge you can find in life is to stand in the protective shadow of those who love you.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPritch View Post
    I'm loving those masks! Great idea. What is the predator they are doing this for I'm curious?
    Two Face
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    I have seen these before. They are in India I believe and they critter would be a tiger.

  14. #34

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    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzgBeH5fay0" target="_blank"> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzgBeH5fay0


    FOR the moment, the Bengal tiger has met its match in the two-faced human.
    That finding was a matter of life or death in an experiment being conducted in the Ganges Delta in India, where tigers living under protection in a reserve had been killing about 60 people a year.
    Arguing that this predator only attacks people from behind, workers in the mangrove forests started wearing face masks on the backs of their heads. Thus far the trick appears to have worked.
    ''For the past three years, no one wearing a mask has been killed,'' said Peter Jackson, chairman of the cat specialist group of the World Conservation Union. ''Tigers have been seen following people wearing the mask, but they have not attacked.''
    By contrast, 29 people who were not wearing the masks were killed there in the last 18 months, officials reported.
    Mr. Jackson, who was in Rome for a meeting of the conservation union's Species Survival Commission last month, brought an example of the trick that fooled the tiger: an inexpensive, rubber mask of a pale-faced human with a thin mustache. He said the Indian Forestry Service has issued more than 2,500 masks to workers who are among the 8,000 who get permits to go into the Sundarban Tiger Reserve. Stopping to Pray
    Continue reading the main story




    No one lives in the reserve of mangrove forests, cut by rivers and creeks on the border of Bangladesh and India, said Mr. Jackson, who knows the area well. But people on both sides go in to collect fish, wild honey and wood in the tigers' habitat.

    Often they first stop to pray for protection at little shrines that rim the area because the large Bengal tigers are unusually fierce. While tigers elsewhere often ignore humans, the Sundarban big cat may attack on sight. Local people tell stories of how the tigers even swim out and sneak up on fishermen in their boats.
    Since 1973, when the reserve was formed, scientists and forestry workers have tried to find ways to coexist peacefully with the 500 or so tigers and to stop them from thinking of humans as easy prey. They have put up human-shaped dummies of bamboo and mud, dressed in clothes with human scent and attached to electric wires, for example. Fences have been wired, and the tigers have been heard to scream from the electric shocks.
    But it was a student at the Science Club of Calcutta who came up with the idea of using a human mask. The reasoning, Mr. Jackson explained, was that many species use a similar technique to fool predators. ''Butterflies, beetles, caterpillars have developed patterns that look like big eyes,'' he said. ''We know that this is a deterrent.''
    Some local residents are said to be skeptical and argue that the clever tigers cannot be fooled for long. The director of the reserve has said he is worried because some men let the mask slip to the top of their head while chopping wood.
    Among this year's victims, he wrote to the commission, were two fishermen who left their masks in their boats as they went ashore to cook their meal. One woodcutter was attacked from behind by a tiger when he sat down and took off his mask for lunch.



    Last edited by zelph; 09-15-2018 at 16:49.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    The number of cougar attacks is relatively small:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._North_America

    ...with recent attacks on a couple of mountain bikers being noteworthy.
    It should be noted, since it was noteworthy, that the cougar does not have the capacity to recognize gender in the modern sense of the term.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GruJL View Post
    It should be noted, since it was noteworthy, that the cougar does not have the capacity to recognize gender in the modern sense of the term.
    Of course not.

    Cougars probably canít determine peopleís age, either.

    But would you not agree that the size (or apparent size) of the potential prey matters?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Of course not.

    Cougars probably can’t determine people’s age, either.

    But would you not agree that the size (or apparent size) of the potential prey matters?
    Yes. And in that case I would actually have thought the victim's size would have mattered (I think they were around 200lbs). It still does make it less of an unusual case and sort of a better fit to the normal profile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GruJL View Post
    It should be noted, since it was noteworthy, that the cougar does not have the capacity to recognize gender in the modern sense of the term.
    Is it possible that like most other animals, the cougar can associate certain odors/pheromones to different genders? I do know in the human species certain pheromones are released by bit genders during sexual acts that tell each participant that mating, for the lack of a better term, is allowed.
    Blackheart

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    Quote Originally Posted by GruJL View Post
    It should be noted, since it was noteworthy, that the cougar does not have the capacity to recognize gender in the modern sense of the term.
    What did I miss?

    I don't see what gender has to do with cougar attacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    What did I miss?

    I don't see what gender has to do with cougar attacks.
    Probably my fault for suggesting that size matters in an earlier post.


    * Children are small (and were disproportionately represented on the list of victims)

    * Men are big (and seemed to be under represented)

    * Woman are somewhere in between (and were arguably overrepresented on the list of victims)

    * A man crouched over to work on his bike looks small (but is an anecdote on the list)


    Hopefully no large women or small men have been offended by my generalizations.

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