Winter gear evaluation for Presidential traverse

[peakbagger]

Lots more snow this time!.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Supposed to snow Thursday and Fridays I hope.


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[Slo-go'en]

It seems the January thaw arrived a bit late, with it being in the 40's today and the next few. Just hope it doesn't rain.

I snowshoed up to my water source today and the snow was really soft. Get off a packed trail and it's really nasty. It looks like I have no chance of getting running water again until spring. The last rain storm pulled the pluming right out of the stream bank and I can't find the end to re-attach to. Good thing I'm experienced at lugging buckets of water.

While I was out, I heard a chopper over Mt Adams this afternoon, hope it wasn't a rescue which needed an air lift. But that would be about the only reason they'd be out with thick clouds above 3800 feet.

[sethd513]

We are suppose to be up there the 15th. I was hoping to go a trip in Friday also but I’m unsure with the rain predicted.


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[peakbagger]

The thaw and rain probably cut down the snowpack and firmed up the crust. Looks like an icing event on Thursday with a couple of inches of snow.

[Slo-go'en]

The thaw and rain probably cut down the snowpack and firmed up the crust. Looks like an icing event on Thursday with a couple of inches of snow.

This weather is just plan nuts. It was nice when it used to just snow.

[T.S.Kobzol]

Saturday at Jackson XC was icy while the Big George was locking fastest winds in decades...I went ice skating on Sunday


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[Slo-go'en]

I hope CalebJ has put off his traverse for another couple of days. Hard to tell how much it snowed last night, the wind was horrific. One side of my driveway had three feet of snow hard packed into it and the other side had one inch! The winds died down sometime in the morning, but it's been snowing lightly all day. Will probably continue on and off all night, especially above 3000 feet. It will get windy again tonight and tomorrow as this clears out. Then another storm comes in Firday, possibly with rain or frozen rain. That finally clears sometime Saturday. Sunday and Monday are looking decent, but back into single digit temps.

With this being Presidents weekend it will be busy in these here hills. I expect to read about a few rescues this weekend, given the conditions.

[Slo-go'en]

Weather update:
It snowed all night and we got another 6" from the "flurries". It's now 10 am and it's still lightly snowing, but it's getting windy so it might just be blowing around now. The sun is trying to come out, but it's hard to say if the summits will clear anytime soon. Then the next round of snow comes in early tomorrow afternoon and lingers into Saturday.

This is the problem with planning a Presidential traverse months in advance. The weather never co-operates and you have to sit around for days until it does.

Guess I should suit up and shovel the driveway again.

[CalebJ]

We made it up to valley way campsite today. Probably won't push much further south tomorrow. Will post more when we get back in a day or two. Weather's good here below treeline but a ton of unbroken steep fresh powder coming up.

[Slo-go'en]

We made it up to valley way campsite today. Probably won't push much further south tomorrow. Will post more when we get back in a day or two. Weather's good here below treeline but a ton of unbroken steep fresh powder coming up.

If you make it to Gray Knob tomorrow you'll be doing good. The weather will be going quickly to hell by early morning and will be white out conditions by 10am. It won't clear out until well after dark, with strong winds the whole time. You get the full Monty on this trip. Up to 6" of new, wet snow possible by Saturday morning.

I just got back from riding shotgun with a friend of mine grooming one of the local snowmobile trails. There's a lot of snow out in the woods. No doubt your snug in your bag and tent as I write this, looks like a chilly night until the storm gets here.

[Colter]

... I haven't done the whole of it in one go in the winter, but I have spent some significant time above treeline in winter conditions in the presidentials...
I've never found a need for more than really good socks, vapor barrier liners, microspikes trail runners and good gaiters . . .

With all due respect, I hope no one reads this and decides that their trail runners are a good choice for winter hiking in the Presidentials. It sounds like you've done it with success, but if many people did it there would be some cold feet and frostbite. And the OP is talking about a Traverse. Having sufficiently warm footwear during the winter isn't excess weight.

[4eyedbuzzard]

I'm always amazed at the level of gear people seem to feel the need for in winter. The Presi traverse is a lot of non-technical rough terrain. I haven't done the whole of it in one go in the winter, but I have spent some significant time above treeline in winter conditions in the presidentials. I may well bag it this winter. There is a lot to be said for being prepared for rough weather, but geez, heavy climbing boots and crampons? You just added 30% or more to your travel time and effort. I've never found a need for more than really good socks, vapor barrier liners, microspikes trail runners and good gaiters . . . unless I'm planning on standing around a bunch which I wouldn't plan on doing on a winter Presi traverse. If you're not standing/sitting around belaying and you're not to climbing high angle ice, there is just no call, in my book anyway, for all the extra weight and bulk of technical winter climbing gear. Lighten up. I do like the look of those insulated gaiters though. They'd be a nice extra insulation buffer over my trail runners if the weather and my ability to keep traveling was leading to colder feet than expected.

Good luck. It should be a great adventure!

With all due respect, I hope no one reads this and decides that their trail runners are a good choice for winter hiking in the Presidentials. It sounds like you've done it with success, but if many people did it there would be some cold feet and frostbite. And the OP is talking about a Traverse. Having sufficiently warm footwear during the winter isn't excess weight.

Yeah, a person might get lucky with both a good weather window, warmer than normal temps, and some all-around good luck on footing conditions with only trail runners and microspikes. But conditions in the Whites are way too unpredictable and change too fast. Good weather comes 15 minutes at a time. Get caught in the weather up there with minimal and unsuitable gear and you would be lucky to only suffer being rescued. And that rescue would definitely come with a big bill from NH F&G for reckless behavior.

[CalebJ]

Quick follow up...
We got to Valley Way trailhead yesterday about 630 am. Took about an hour to shovel our way into the parking lot so we could start. Got to walking around 745 with snow shoes. Not too bad at first but it got progressively worse. As the trail gets steeper we also ran into significantly more fresh deep powder, to the point that we were basically swimming in it to break trail. It ultimately took seven hours to make the three miles to Valley Way tent site. By that time we were all worn out and there was no chance of making it to Gray Knob until long past dark.
We set up a solid base camp there and set off this morning with lighter packs (still carrying emergency supplies plus snowshoes /micro spikes /ice axe /crampons). Deep snow all the way to Madison Hut. From there we switched to micro spikes and trail crampons. The other three had purchased trail crampons for the trip. My micro spikes were no match for the Hillsounds. I stopped to switch over to full crampons in the first few minutes. It took a while but we were able to summit Madison around noon. Made it back to camp around 2pm and packed up for the trip out. The new snow that came in mid day while we were out to Madison obliterated the previous days efforts, so it still took us about three hours for the trip out.
Not the full traverse that we'd hoped for, but under the conditions we were very pleased with how things went.

[Feral Bill]

Quick follow up...
We got to Valley Way trailhead yesterday about 630 am. Took about an hour to shovel our way into the parking lot so we could start. Got to walking around 745 with snow shoes. Not too bad at first but it got progressively worse. As the trail gets steeper we also ran into significantly more fresh deep powder, to the point that we were basically swimming in it to break trail. It ultimately took seven hours to make the three miles to Valley Way tent site. By that time we were all worn out and there was no chance of making it to Gray Knob until long past dark.
We set up a solid base camp there and set off this morning with lighter packs (still carrying emergency supplies plus snowshoes /micro spikes /ice axe /crampons). Deep snow all the way to Madison Hut. From there we switched to micro spikes and trail crampons. The other three had purchased trail crampons for the trip. My micro spikes were no match for the Hillsounds. I stopped to switch over to full crampons in the first few minutes. It took a while but we were able to summit Madison around noon. Made it back to camp around 2pm and packed up for the trip out. The new snow that came in mid day while we were out to Madison obliterated the previous days efforts, so it still took us about three hours for the trip out.
Not the full traverse that we'd hoped for, but under the conditions we were very pleased with how things went.

Good judgement triumphs over optimism and ambition. Well done. I recall plodding up Valley Way with a friend many years ago, breaking trail the whole way in a wet snowfall Never got to tree line. Next day dawned sunny and beautiful. We turned around. No regrets.

[peakbagger]

Sounds like you got to see some real winter conditions. If you had fun that is what counts. Hopefully the clouds lifted up enough for some views. The bummer is there is supposed to be a "supermoon" for the next few nights, would have been impressive if you were up high. I expect the folks going up today will appreciate you breaking out the trail.

I expect it was not a day for trail runners .

[Slo-go'en]

The weather definitely wasn't on your side. But then it rarely is this time of year. With the wind which was up there yesterday, it's amazing you manage to summit Madison. At least it was on the warm side.

I must of just missed you. If you noticed fresh tracks starting at the Randolph path about a mile from the road, that was me. There was fresh snow on the trail from the morning, so unless someone else had gone up much earlier in the day I was following your tracks. Someone had even bare booted it up there. I'm sure all those heading up today appreciate your breaking trail.

I looped over to the Air Line trail and by the time I got back to the trail head around 5 PM, a couple of the cars which were there when I arrived were gone. At least one of the cars must have belonged to the skiers who's tracks I followed down the Air Line. Good conditions for the backcountry glade skiers.

[CalebJ]

Two people bare booting showed up at the tent site while we were away at Madison. It was obvious when we went down that they'd had to take numerous breaks based on giant body outlines in the snow every few tenths of a mile. They even pushed on towards Madison in them right after we got back to camp. No idea whether they were successful, we packed up in an hour or so and didn't see them again.
We did see a lot of tracks as we got to the last mile from the lot. Made things much easier. I definitely underestimated my flotation needs. Was running 25's and kept sliding off the side slopes. Finally borrowed a set of extensions from one of the others in our group and it probably tripled our pace.

You probably were on our tracks if you started before the snow hit yesterday.

[Tipi Walter]

we also ran into significantly more fresh deep powder, to the point that we were basically swimming in it to break trail. It ultimately took seven hours to make the three miles
.

That's how I described a winter trek I did back in 2010 when a blizzard hit the high ground at 5,000 feet in NC. The snow was 3 feet deep and up to my waist and it took me 3 hours to go 1 mile along a ridgeline with some steep ups and downs.

Going up was mind-boggling difficult because my pack weighed 75 lbs and I was postholing in three stages---one foot down in the snow, more weight applied---sink to two feet---put all weight on my boot---sink the final third foot---repeat with next foot and extract other leg and foot. The steep rocky uphills were comically tormenting and the steep downhills were Swimming Events---whereby I flung myself forwards and gained distance by a controlled collapse. Repeat. Generally speaking, we don't carry snowshoes in North Carolina.

At the end of my ordeal---and I really wanted to cash in my chips and curl up under a tree and go to sleep---Oh and there was no trail whatsoever but I knew the route and the ridge well enough---at the end I reached a south facing trail losing 3,000 feet which took me off the ridge to the low ground were the snow was only 3-6 inches deep at best.

It was this experience which convinced me to carry a Voile snow shovel during my winter trips---so I could dig out a tent spot in the snow and camp where I stood if needed. A snow shovel might not help in breaking camp but it sure helps in setting up the next camp.

[Slo-go'en]

Two people bare booting showed up at the tent site while we were away at Madison. It was obvious when we went down that they'd had to take numerous breaks based on giant body outlines in the snow every few tenths of a mile. They even pushed on towards Madison in them right after we got back to camp. No idea whether they were successful, we packed up in an hour or so and didn't see them again.
We did see a lot of tracks as we got to the last mile from the lot. Made things much easier. I definitely underestimated my flotation needs. Was running 25's and kept sliding off the side slopes. Finally borrowed a set of extensions from one of the others in our group and it probably tripled our pace.

You probably were on our tracks if you started before the snow hit yesterday.

I couldn't tell if it was just one or two bare booting it. Idiots. I need to put up a sign at the trail head which says "No snowshoes? Go home now". The fresh tracks were mine, I wandered on an off the Valley Way, taking the alternate trail which parallel the Valley Way along the stream.