Planning a section hike of the Whites in December and have questions

[peakbagger]

Folks can always buy gear but they cant buy experience. They can rent it by hiring a guide.

Crampons arent required above treeline as long as the conditions do not require them, the down side to not bringing them is having to turn around. A big issue is most people can climb up steep stuff far better then descending it. I have run into folks that have gotten into a fair share of problems where they managed to make it up a slope and had a real tough time heading down it. Ammonoosuc Ravine and Lions Head Winter route both usually need crampons. Falling Waters, The Old Bridal Path section above treeline especially on the NW side can definitely be a crampons not optional section and Liberty all on occasion need crampons.

[sethd513]

I’ve been hiking and camping for 6 years now. 3 years ago I started winter camping. I live in Massachusetts and usually always make the 4 hour drive to the whites. I always plan for the worse, I always have bail out options and I always make sure my wife and I are on the same page when we go. Listen to these guys they know their stuff. There are plenty of good views elsewhere if you are looking to save money on a guide service but I wouldn’t make an adventure out of it if you aren’t use to the area in the other 3 seasons.


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[nsherry61]

People do come to the Whites in the winter to train for artic conditions since the weather here is so extreme. Being caught in a white out above tree line in the Whites with a wind chill somewhere around -100 is as dangerous as anywhere else in the world. . .

And, they make a great training ground quite precisely because the mountains are so readily accessible and you can find extreme weather conditions without extreme terrain conditions and all while also having readily available emergency exits. Relatively speaking, the Whites are awesomely safe and accessible. The Whites are dangerous, especially in the winter, because they are so readily accessible and climbable for people with limited experience, even in the winter. It's awesome to see how much use they get in mid-winter, whereas most other major mountain ranges in north America get very little use in the winter because they are beyond the skill sets of even man fairly experienced mountaineers.

[Feral Bill]

He's planning a mid December hike, so it's unlikely to encounter -40 temps, but last winter it went from being sort of mild to sub zero at night around mid December and didn't warm up again until we had the January thaw a month later. This winter is suppose to be milder, but with more snow. We'll just have to wait and see if that pans out or not.

I know its not super likely, but I always like to be prepared. The weight of -40 gear is not that much more than -20 gear.

[Miami Joe]

Love this thread. Lots of knowledgeable people. Good luck, crazy Floridian.

[T.S.Kobzol]

It can be done. Keep studying and preparing.

Try parking at Lincoln Woods anf head to 13 falls campsite. Thats a good hike over mild trail. From there you can try any surrounding 4000 footers with an option to return to this Basecamp.

If the weather is nice and trails are broken out and you feel confident from the same campsite you can string galehead,twin and guyot and stay at guyot campsite. Then if weather still cooperates (DO NOT DO THIS SECTION IN WINDS AND SNOWSTORM) go over bonds and bondcliff and down to the Pemi where you can stealth camp and hike out to the car. Or try bonds and retrace steps back to 13 falls and out to Lincoln Woods.


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[Dan Roper]

My thought on reading the two posts by the OP: He's yanking our chain. No way this guy is serious.

If he was serious, surely he would have started this thread with, "I am a seriously experienced cold zone, high altitude winter hiker."

For a Louisianan (or anyone, barring the 1% of backpackers that could handle these conditions knowingly) to offer offhand that he wants to do nine days in the Whites in mid-December is nuts.

A few of you, in the name of being "encouraging," are encouraging him that there may be ways to do this, without knowing his experience level. That's nuts too. No way anybody but a flat-out expert needs to be venturing into this level of unknown, risk, and peril.

[T.S.Kobzol]

yeah maybe but walking to 13 falls campsite is walking on nearly level ground over a dirt road frequented by many people every day and retreating via this path is probably the safest 'winter backcountry wilderness experience' attempt you can do. If this person really decides to venture out there then I want to be the one to give him one of the safest options I could think of while still having an adventure.

My thought on reading the two posts by the OP: He's yanking our chain. No way this guy is serious.

If he was serious, surely he would have started this thread with, "I am a seriously experienced cold zone, high altitude winter hiker."

For a Louisianan (or anyone, barring the 1% of backpackers that could handle these conditions knowingly) to offer offhand that he wants to do nine days in the Whites in mid-December is nuts.

A few of you, in the name of being "encouraging," are encouraging him that there may be ways to do this, without knowing his experience level. That's nuts too. No way anybody but a flat-out expert needs to be venturing into this level of unknown, risk, and peril.

[ADK Walker]

Maybe I missed it but I couldn't find if you shared your previous experience in alpine environments.

My personal mantra in the Whites in winter is "Be conservative in your choices".

This range in winter will require a fair amount of knowledge and previous experience to manage the many risks it will throw your way. People get lucky every year with the weather, their lack of experience and their gear choices but I've seen lots of things above treeline in the Whites that are flat out dangerous and the people doing them didn't have a clue as to what level of potential harm they were putting themsleves and others (usually their girlfriends) in.

That being said I think you can put together an incredible trip for yourself. Consider spending a day with a local guide and learning the basics of snow travel, snow stability and whiteout navigation. It would be fun as well as a great learning experience.

If I was looking to put together a 9-day winter trip in the Whites and it was going to be my first time there I would consider multiple trips with a return to a hostel/motel in between. Getting a week straight of weather that's condusive to being above treeline in the winter is highly unlikely.

Consider arriving in town and choosing from a few pre-planned objectives that work with the weather pattern your'll be experiencing.

An overnight up Lowes Path to Mt. Adams is a good trail to consider to get a taste of the Whites in winter. Consider this mini-adventure as a shakedown trip to see how you and your equipment would fare for an extended backpacking trip in the area. Return to town after climbing Adams and maybe Madiosn and then adapt, change, add or remove the bits of gear that are needing attention and head out again.

Re-evaluate the weather forecast and set out on another longer trip that best suits your interest and level of comfort in the conditions that you have now gotten some first hand experience with.

As for micro-spikes... everything in the Whites was climbed, hiked and traversed before they were even invented. That being said I never leave my micro-spikes at home when headed to the Whites. They make travel so much more efficent where crampons would be overkill for the conditions. (I still carry crampons in addition to micro-spikes the majority of the time in the Whites.)

Best of luck and definitey visit the Flat Bread pizza place in North Conway for dinner one night.

[peakbagger]

When I respond to a thread like this I think of the lurkers out there contemplating a similar trip and hoping that even if the OP is not serious other folks may be and maybe they will realize how much crap they can get in. I have dayhiked all the four ks in NH in winter but even I pick my days. Things can get really nasty quickly if I pick the wrong ones.

This past weekend my driveway in Gorham got plowed twice and my cable line needed to be replaced as trees loaded with snow had bent them over stretching the line. I drove 40 miles south and its looks like fall with the leaves still on the trees. Many folks just assume that because there is not winter conditions in southern New England that the conditions could not be that bad in the whites. It happens every winter holiday weekend where folks head up who have not done their research and on occasion they get in trouble and in even rarer times their body gets carried down the mountain.

[Slo-go'en]

I climbed Mt Willard down in Crawford Notch today and the trail turned into a ribbon of ice at about 2000 feet. There looked like less snow down at the southern end of the range then up here at the north end. For November 1st, this is a good start to winter.

This is where the serious ice started.
SAM_4417.JPG

Surprised there was actually a view from the top. The AT climbs straight up that big hill to the left.
SAM_4420.JPG

Finally, Mt Washington in the clouds as another rain storm moves in
SAM_4423.JPG

[egilbe]

I've only hiked Willard in Winter. Its a cool little hike with a great view.

IMG_20180127_101123.jpg

[Slo-go'en]

I've only hiked Willard in Winter. Its a cool little hike with a great view.

IMG_20180127_101123.jpg

Yea, Willard, Avalon and Tom are good winter day hikes. Reasonably short and well traveled. About the easiest way to hit a couple of 4000 footers doing the Avalon/Tom loop.

It was obvious a lot of people had gone up Willard, probably last weekend, and turned the trail into ice. I saw 7 other hikes during the time I was on it. I meet a group of 4 which I caught up to shortly after leaving the parking lot and tagged along with them to the top, then meet 3 more coming up as I was going down. And that's on a Thursday in marginal weather.

The front desk guy at the highland center said there was 3 feet of snow up at the Avalon/Tom junction. It will be interesting to see how it looks up there after this weekends storms finally clear. Rain the valley, slush up high.

[QuietStorm]

When I finish the southern AT in a week, I'll have NH and Maine left. As tempting as it is to try and hike some miles this winter, I'm waiting until next spring-summer. I've hiked over 1700 miles of the AT but that doesn't make me an expert or ready to hike the Whites in winter. Be realistic, be safe, and most importantly, don't put SAR teams in danger getting your asses off the mountain.

[demonace]

Maybe I missed it but I couldn't find if you shared your previous experience in alpine environments.

My personal mantra in the Whites in winter is "Be conservative in your choices".

This range in winter will require a fair amount of knowledge and previous experience to manage the many risks it will throw your way. People get lucky every year with the weather, their lack of experience and their gear choices but I've seen lots of things above treeline in the Whites that are flat out dangerous and the people doing them didn't have a clue as to what level of potential harm they were putting themsleves and others (usually their girlfriends) in.

That being said I think you can put together an incredible trip for yourself. Consider spending a day with a local guide and learning the basics of snow travel, snow stability and whiteout navigation. It would be fun as well as a great learning experience.

If I was looking to put together a 9-day winter trip in the Whites and it was going to be my first time there I would consider multiple trips with a return to a hostel/motel in between. Getting a week straight of weather that's condusive to being above treeline in the winter is highly unlikely.

Consider arriving in town and choosing from a few pre-planned objectives that work with the weather pattern your'll be experiencing.

An overnight up Lowes Path to Mt. Adams is a good trail to consider to get a taste of the Whites in winter. Consider this mini-adventure as a shakedown trip to see how you and your equipment would fare for an extended backpacking trip in the area. Return to town after climbing Adams and maybe Madiosn and then adapt, change, add or remove the bits of gear that are needing attention and head out again.

Re-evaluate the weather forecast and set out on another longer trip that best suits your interest and level of comfort in the conditions that you have now gotten some first hand experience with.

As for micro-spikes... everything in the Whites was climbed, hiked and traversed before they were even invented. That being said I never leave my micro-spikes at home when headed to the Whites. They make travel so much more efficent where crampons would be overkill for the conditions. (I still carry crampons in addition to micro-spikes the majority of the time in the Whites.)

Best of luck and definitey visit the Flat Bread pizza place in North Conway for dinner one night.

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[demonace]

Maybe I missed it but I couldn't find if you shared your previous experience in alpine environments.

My personal mantra in the Whites in winter is "Be conservative in your choices".

This range in winter will require a fair amount of knowledge and previous experience to manage the many risks it will throw your way. People get lucky every year with the weather, their lack of experience and their gear choices but I've seen lots of things above treeline in the Whites that are flat out dangerous and the people doing them didn't have a clue as to what level of potential harm they were putting themsleves and others (usually their girlfriends) in.

That being said I think you can put together an incredible trip for yourself. Consider spending a day with a local guide and learning the basics of snow travel, snow stability and whiteout navigation. It would be fun as well as a great learning experience.

If I was looking to put together a 9-day winter trip in the Whites and it was going to be my first time there I would consider multiple trips with a return to a hostel/motel in between. Getting a week straight of weather that's condusive to being above treeline in the winter is highly unlikely.

Consider arriving in town and choosing from a few pre-planned objectives that work with the weather pattern your'll be experiencing.

An overnight up Lowes Path to Mt. Adams is a good trail to consider to get a taste of the Whites in winter. Consider this mini-adventure as a shakedown trip to see how you and your equipment would fare for an extended backpacking trip in the area. Return to town after climbing Adams and maybe Madiosn and then adapt, change, add or remove the bits of gear that are needing attention and head out again.

Re-evaluate the weather forecast and set out on another longer trip that best suits your interest and level of comfort in the conditions that you have now gotten some first hand experience with.

As for micro-spikes... everything in the Whites was climbed, hiked and traversed before they were even invented. That being said I never leave my micro-spikes at home when headed to the Whites. They make travel so much more efficent where crampons would be overkill for the conditions. (I still carry crampons in addition to micro-spikes the majority of the time in the Whites.)

Best of luck and definitey visit the Flat Bread pizza place in North Conway for dinner one night.

Finally a very thoughtful post about how to manage this trip and actually that is exactly the info we were looking for and that is our plan after EXTENSIVE research. We will be doing a series of smaller trips testing out several different builds of gear. We are very experienced hikers but know our obstacles and take EVERY precaution but I want to thank everyone that has been posting positive comments on this thread. Your advice will all be considered.


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[rickb]

Finally a very thoughtful post about how to manage this trip and actually that is exactly the info we were looking for and that is our plan after EXTENSIVE research. We will be doing a series of smaller trips testing out several different builds of gear. We are very experienced hikers but know our obstacles and take EVERY precaution but I want to thank everyone that has been posting positive comments on this thread. Your advice will all be considered.
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FWIW, The Notch Hostel is worth looking into as a base of operations for hikes originating/ending in the southern part of the Whites.

I have not stayed at many Hostels, but I am thinking this one is unique for all sorts of reasons.

Good facilities and you would probably run into a lot of like-minded people with a wealth of local knowledge there. Some shuttles.

[demonace]

Yes we won’t be doing any hostels but maybe a hut but mostly hammock and maybe a trench and BIVY setup with pads. Def gonna be testing a ton of gear configurations.


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[Hatchet_1697]

Do us a favor, post an update after your adventure, I’d like to know what worked (gear, planning, etc.), what didn’t work, and what you would do differently next time.

Thanks, good luck, and be safe. H


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[demonace]

Do us a favor, post an update after your adventure, I’d like to know what worked (gear, planning, etc.), what didn’t work, and what you would do differently next time.

Thanks, good luck, and be safe. H


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Absolutely there will be tons of pictures and maybe even videos posted for y’all.


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