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  1. #1

    Default Planning a section hike of the Whites in December and have questions

    My hiking buddy and I are planning on backpacking the Whites mid-December. We’re flying to Logan Airport in Boston. The best forms of transportation that I could find so far is the Concord Coach bus line or Uber. Any other suggestions?

    We are thinking of just taking the AT because it hits a lot of the spots we would love to see. That would be Moosilauke, Franconia Ridge, and Washington. No huts unless it’s required.

    With those three waypoints of interest in mind and 9 days in December weather, should we take the AT? Or possibly some shortcuts?

    We’ll land in Boston at 1PM on Dec 13th and need to leave from Boston at 8PM on Dec 23rd. That gives us 9 full days of hiking in between.

    What kind of weather and temps should we expect? What sort of trail conditions and pace (miles per day) should we assume?

    I will have poles, crampons and snowshoes, but do I really also need micro-spikes and an ice axe?

    I would really appreciate your advice, thanks.

  2. #2
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyRandy View Post
    My hiking buddy and I are planning on backpacking the Whites mid-December. We’re flying to Logan Airport in Boston. The best forms of transportation that I could find so far is the Concord Coach bus line or Uber. Any other suggestions?

    We are thinking of just taking the AT because it hits a lot of the spots we would love to see. That would be Moosilauke, Franconia Ridge, and Washington. No huts unless it’s required.

    With those three waypoints of interest in mind and 9 days in December weather, should we take the AT? Or possibly some shortcuts?

    We’ll land in Boston at 1PM on Dec 13th and need to leave from Boston at 8PM on Dec 23rd. That gives us 9 full days of hiking in between.

    What kind of weather and temps should we expect? What sort of trail conditions and pace (miles per day) should we assume?

    I will have poles, crampons and snowshoes, but do I really also need micro-spikes and an ice axe?

    I would really appreciate your advice, thanks.
    Hire a guide service that specializes in Winter hiking. You have no idea what you are getting yourself into. A hiker from Florida was just rescued from slopes of Mt Madison this week because he wasn't prepared for a 3 foot snowstorm.

  3. #3
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    What is your experience level? The miles per day can be zero, and the temperatures way below zero, without wind chill. Zero visability is also common. Elgibe may well be correct. That said, you might get a day or two of glorious weather. Best to do what it takes to not end up dead.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

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  5. #5
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    https://www.ime-usa.com/ime/

    https://redlineguiding.com/

    those are two off the top of my head.

  6. #6

  7. #7

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    I live about 3 miles north of the AT in the whites and have for quite awhile. I hike year round and stringing a couple of good days together is tough. Unless you have first class mountaineering gear and experience you are way in over your head. Folks pay good money to licensed guides to train for places like the seven summits in the whites in winter, and most guiding firms end up having to bail quite often due to extreme conditions.

    Get a copy of "Where You'll Find Me - Risks, Decisions and the Last Climb of Kate Matrosova" by Ty Gagne. Read it and you will see what you could get into. Sure some folks get real lucky and combine inexperience with great weather in the winter but many more get in trouble. Also invest in a NH Fish and Game Hike Safe Card, it may save you a rescue charge unless they deem your hike "reckless". Note that the although many of the day hiking routes are broken out fairly quickly, the AT may not be. Plan on no more than 1 mile per hour with 7 hours of daylight makes for short days if the trail is not broken out.

    A section hiker was just rescued two days ago on Mt Madison. Only thee feet of snow but he was not ready for it.

  8. #8

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    Were in the middle of our third winter storm this season. If this is any indication of things to come, conditions mid December will be horrible.

    Most winter hiking in the Whites is day hiking to summits. Most peaks have a "winter" trail which is shorter (and steeper) then AT to the top and is generally broken out, unless your the luck one to show up just after a storm. There is no way you'll be hiking the AT along the ridges. That's just crazy. Average progress on unbroken trail is 1/4 mile an hour and it gets dark about 3:30 PM. Keeping track of the trail can be a challenge. Doing a 9 day, continues linear hike simply isn't a good idea.

    There are several winterized cabins and huts you can base camp at. One is the RMC Gray Knob cabin (caretake and woodstove, used at the discretion of the caretaker, $25 overnight fee) Located at tree line, one can summit Madison, Adams and/or Jefferson from there.

    Another is the AMC Carter notch hut (caretaker and woodstove, but sleep in unheated bunk rooms, I forget that what they charge, $40 a night?)

    Zealand Falls hut is also open in the winter. This is low elevation hut, mostly used by cross country skiers.

    For 9 days, your going to want to bounce around the area. Best bet is to fly into Manchester and rent a car for the week and plan to spend many of those nights in a motel room.
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  9. #9

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    If you are not set on backpacking there are a couple of hostels that are open year round that would be excellent spots for dayhiking. If you stick to the dayhike routes to the summits and hope for good weather you can start out slow and then work your way up if you luck out and get good weather. If there is good weather the major day hike routes tend to get broken out within 48 hours of a storm.

    Microspikes are pretty much the standard traction gear used in the winter once the trails are broken out. Crampons are needed on a few trails and generally recommended to be carried if there is extensive above treeline. The wind and white outs is something you just have to learn about. There is one spot on the AT on Haystack Mtn where several folks over the years have died when they headed up above treeline in windy conditions and turned around, by the time they got back to Haystack they could not find there way back into the woods and ended up dead or near frozen when the rescue parties found them.

  10. #10

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    Thanks for the advice guys. It seems we need to lower our expectations. I’m thinking we will start out in Pinkham instead. The bus will stop in a good spot it seems. I’m not interested in staying at hotels or shelters. We want to hike and camp. We will not venture too far if the weather forecast is dangerous and we will time our summits accordingly and just take what we can get instead of expecting to finish.

    About the micro spikes, can the crampons suffice in all areas the micro spikes can? Meaning, if I’m bringing crampons, can I now leave the microspikes behind?

  11. #11
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    One thing about the White Mountains is that there are lots and lots of routes up to most of the ridgelines (and the AT), which also means there are lots and lots of exit routes off the ridges if the weather turns or your situation otherwise turns bad. That being said, you still have to navigate and find trails in winter conditions in alpine terrain which is not easy and can be nearly impossible at times even with well honed skills. If you haven't done extensive winter wilderness travel, I would definitely write a winter White Mountain, AT, backpack off your bucket list until you have honed those skills.

    So yeah, you are unlikely to find 9 contiguous days of conditions that are conducive to safe and successful backpacking above treeline. In fact, you may only get a couple good days or none. So, if you want to try it, and you are ready, willing, and planning on making sure you can escape down off the ridgelines to a road or other lower altitude route, I'd say go for it. It could be the most amazing trip of your life. Probably not though, as it is a crazy hard hike, especially in winter. Whatever you choose, do take serious heed of the above posted warnings.

    Finally, yeah, microspikes rock!
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  12. #12
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyRandy View Post
    Thanks for the advice guys. It seems we need to lower our expectations. I’m thinking we will start out in Pinkham instead. The bus will stop in a good spot it seems. I’m not interested in staying at hotels or shelters. We want to hike and camp. We will not venture too far if the weather forecast is dangerous and we will time our summits accordingly and just take what we can get instead of expecting to finish.

    About the micro spikes, can the crampons suffice in all areas the micro spikes can? Meaning, if I’m bringing crampons, can I now leave the microspikes behind?
    There are times when Microspikes are preferred because they are lighter. Less energy is consumed hiking with them on your feet. Crampons are heavier, but are required safety equipment above treeline. If you need Crampons, you'll need an ice age and you will need to know how to self arrest, which means practicing until you are confident you can stop yourself from sliding down over a cliff if you trip. Hiking in Winter is about energy conservation and making decisions that won't kill you out of ignorance. I can't imagine anyone living on the gulf coast knows how tiring it is to fight a 40mph wind when it's -10* F. When you are exhausted and you stop when it's that cold, you die. Simple as that. Someone is going to have to haul your stiff frozen corpse off the mountain. It can't be left up there. It's bad for tourism.

  13. #13
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Ice axe. Damn auto correct

  14. #14

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    Starting from Pinkham is not a great idea. If you go north you hit the climb up Wildcat from RT 16 within about an hour from taking off from Pinkham. Its very steep, too steep for snow shoes if its powder conditions. There are a series of steep ledges with wooden steps pinned into the rock and inevitably there is ice on the rock and on the steps. Southbound the Old Jackson Road doesn't get much use once you get outside of the local ski traffic around Pinkham. The snow really packs into the Great Gulf area and from there is one of the longest continuous ascents in the whites up to MT Madison (which also gets relatively little traffic). The closest option for camping is the Osgood tentsite down near the beginning of the ascent and Valley Way tentsite at the top. The only place with wood stove is Grey Knob a few miles further.

    I guess you have to hope the early snow is fluke and we have a low snow early winter.

  15. #15

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    HandyRandy, camping is very restricted in the Whites due to the terrain. The trails are very steep and the forest on the side on the trail very dense. You can not simply hike and camp anywhere you like. With few exceptions, the AT through the Whites is either going straight up the side of a mountain or following a ridge line above tree line. While in theory you can camp above tree line if there is 2 feet or more of snow on the ground, finding a sheltered spot where you won't be blown off the ridge is not easy as these spots are rare. You need a tent which can stand up to potentially 100 MPH wind gusts.

    The trails in December tend to be very icy. If there isn't much snow, they are a ribbon of ice. Microspikes are good on packed snow but not so good on steep icy trails where you have to do a lot of side stepping. Crampons are better unless their the old strap on type. For snow shoes you want short ones with a heel lift for going up steep trails. MSR's are popular. Old wood frame snowshoes are useless.

    If you really want to do a 9 day hike in the Whites, please come in the summer or early fall.

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  16. #16
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    Have you considered the Adirondacks as an alternative? The High Peaks area around Mt. Marcy is a lot safer than the Whites, but still challenging and beautiful. Trails are mostly below tree line and well traveled. If the weather cooperates, you can bag some peaks as day hikes. I think you can fly into Lake Placid. I'll check. Yep, fly in via Boston, Uber to Heart Lake trailhead. Be prepared for weather as cold as minus 40 degrees at night. A sunny minus 15 day can be absolutely delightful.
    Last edited by Feral Bill; 10-28-2018 at 12:14.
    "It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss

  17. #17

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    This was a very informative thread and I wanted to thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. I haven’t made it to the Whites on my Northbound from Virginia section hiking of the AT, but know they are looming. I winter hike but not above tree line, and after reading this plan on doing the Whites in summer. I know my limitations and have heard some of the stories.

    Thanks for the reading list, I started reading Critical Hours: Search and Rescue in the White Mountains — so far it’s riveting.

    H



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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Bill View Post
    Have you considered the Adirondacks as an alternative? The High Peaks area around Mt. Marcy is a lot safer than the Whites, but still challenging and beautiful. Trails are mostly below tree line and well traveled. If the weather cooperates, you can bag some peaks as day hikes. I think you can fly into Lake Placid. I'll check. Yep, fly in via Boston, Uber to Heart Lake trailhead. Be prepared for weather as cold as minus 40 degrees at night. A sunny minus 15 day can be absolutely delightful.
    He's planning a mid December hike, so it's unlikely to encounter -40 temps, but last winter it went from being sort of mild to sub zero at night around mid December and didn't warm up again until we had the January thaw a month later. This winter is suppose to be milder, but with more snow. We'll just have to wait and see if that pans out or not.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    . . . Crampons are heavier, but are required safety equipment above treeline. . . I can't imagine anyone living on the gulf coast knows how tiring it is to fight a 40mph wind when it's -10* F. . .
    Seriously?!

    Obviously one needs to know their limits, but crampons "required safety equipment above treeline"? Give me a break. Yeah, crampons are required on a few, very few, trails in the Whites. While wearing microspikes, I climb with and past people in the Whites above treeline all the time and only a few are wearing crampons or even switching from microspikes to crampons (on the Ammonoosuc trail for instance). Yeah, crampons have better bite and stability on steep and hard ice conditions, but they require heavier footwear, they weigh more themselves, and they are absolutely NOT required for safe travel above treeline in the Whites on most occasions in most places.

    And, on the second note, what makes one so arrogant as to assume that just because someone lives in a tropical climate they can't have experience with serious mountaineering? Hell, let's take it a step further and question how someone that lives in New England could have any experience with serious mountaineering when the closest glacier or mountain peak higher than 10,000 ft is half a continent away from where you live. Sure, you can get some serious winds and snow and find serious, albeit short, ice routes, but there are roads and trails everywhere and you can day-hike to the top of every major peak. Heck, there is a trail to the top of nearly every major peak in the Whites.

    Real mountains and real mountaineering doesn't have trails because the terrain is to tough to sustain a trail. ;-)
    I'm not lost. I'm exploring.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsherry61 View Post
    Seriously?!
    Obviously one needs to know their limits, but crampons "required safety equipment above treeline"? Give me a break.
    Well, there are places where if you slip, you can slide 1500 feet before an abrupt stop in the boulder field at the bottom. You do need some kind of traction on the hard, crusty, wind packed snow. I really don't trust microspikes in some conditions.

    People do come to the Whites in the winter to train for artic conditions since the weather here is so extreme. Being caught in a white out above tree line in the Whites with a wind chill somewhere around -100 is as dangerous as anywhere else in the world. These mountains can't be taken for granted. They have proven deadly time and again.

    The OP says he has snowshoes and crampons, so I'd guess he has some winter experience. But where? The Whites are unique and can not be underestimated, even in late October as recent weather has proven.
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