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  1. #121
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure I have seen places to pitch a tent along the 19 Mile Brook Trail just outside of the FPA, or maybe on the Wildcat Ridge section of the AT in that same general area.

    Not 100% sure though - never camped there myself.

    One thing to keep in mind is that so long as you are 1/4 mile from the hut, there is no requirement that you head off the tail 200 feet in that area (it is not a designated wilderness) so you could camp at a spot right along the AT or the 19 Mile Brook Trail if you found one.

    Finding sites (albeit marginal ones) just outside a 1/4 mile FPA is rather common, as it is at Trail junctions.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that camping at spots like that will stick in the craw of some folks even when they are perfectly legal places, they may not realize iit.
    Last edited by rickb; 03-17-2019 at 07:27.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    One thing to keep in mind is that so long as you are 1/4 mile from the hut, there is no requirement that you head off the tail 200 feet in that area (it is not a designated wilderness) — so you could camp at a spot right along the AT or the 19 Mile Brook Trail if you found one.
    Finding sites (albeit marginal ones) just outside a 1/4 mile FPA is rather common, as it is at Trail junctions.
    Another thing to keep in mind is that camping at spots like that will stick in the craw of some folks — even when they are perfectly legal places, they may not realize iit.
    Rick, you like to point out the legality of camping just off the trail, I like to point out it's not easy to do. Heading down a side trail with the hope you might find a suitable place to camp at the end of a long, hard day when it's starting to get dark is one heck of a risk since these spots are pretty scarce.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  3. #123
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Rick, you like to point out the legality of camping just off the trail, I like to point out it's not easy to do. Heading down a side trail with the hope you might find a suitable place to camp at the end of a long, hard day when it's starting to get dark is one heck of a risk since these spots are pretty scarce.
    Good post!

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Rick, you like to point out the legality of camping just off the trail, I like to point out it's not easy to do. Heading down a side trail with the hope you might find a suitable place to camp at the end of a long, hard day when it's starting to get dark is one heck of a risk since these spots are pretty scarce.
    which is why conversations like this take place or the guides that have exhaustive lists of camping spots exist.

    youre correct, i wouldnt plan to wander down 19 mile brook trail just to check out and see if theres anywhere to camp at the end of a day. but if i know there are places?

    the aforementioned spot on the trail north end of mahoosuc notch is perhaps the best example of this. youd be crazy to plan for trying to find a spot near there not knowing if it were there, but knowing it is there makes planning a whole heck of a lot different.

  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    which is why conversations like this take place or the guides that have exhaustive lists of camping spots exist.

    youre correct, i wouldnt plan to wander down 19 mile brook trail just to check out and see if theres anywhere to camp at the end of a day. but if i know there are places?

    the aforementioned spot on the trail north end of mahoosuc notch is perhaps the best example of this. youd be crazy to plan for trying to find a spot near there not knowing if it were there, but knowing it is there makes planning a whole heck of a lot different.
    That site at the north end of the Notch is well established and is noted in the guide. It's also the only established non-designated camping spot between Gorham and Grafton notch. Yea, you could camp at the south end, but it's not really an established site and is pretty marginal.

    If you don't see a tent site listed in the guide, your probably not going to find one along that stretch of trail.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    That site at the north end of the Notch is well established and is noted in the guide. It's also the only established non-designated camping spot between Gorham and Grafton notch. Yea, you could camp at the south end, but it's not really an established site and is pretty marginal.

    If you don't see a tent site listed in the guide, your probably not going to find one along that stretch of trail.
    the companion doesnt list that site as it (and presumably some other guides) only list named and designated sites. the official guidebook that comes with the maps i'm 90% sure doesnt either.

    i'm sure some other guides list that site, as well as many others that are not named or designated. do those guides say anything about 19 mile brook or pinkham notch having usable, non designated but legal campsites? i have no idea. its why i've been asking.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    the companion doesnt list that site as it (and presumably some other guides) only list named and designated sites. the official guidebook that comes with the maps i'm 90% sure doesnt either.

    i'm sure some other guides list that site, as well as many others that are not named or designated. do those guides say anything about 19 mile brook or pinkham notch having usable, non designated but legal campsites? i have no idea. its why i've been asking.
    AT guide has the Mahoosuc notch site listed. It shows only designated sites through out the Whites. The "stealth" sites along the AT in the Whites are few and far between and are typically just big enough for one person in a bivy sack. Hardly worth noting.

    The AT Guide shows the location of many well established tent sites along the AT.

    The ATC Companion would only show official sites, since it is an official publication. Guthook will list legal, well established non-designated sites.
    The AT - It has it's ups and downs...

  8. #128
    13-45 Section Hiker Trash Berserker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slo-go'en View Post
    Rick, you like to point out the legality of camping just off the trail, I like to point out it's not easy to do. Heading down a side trail with the hope you might find a suitable place to camp at the end of a long, hard day when it's starting to get dark is one heck of a risk since these spots are pretty scarce.
    This is a very good high level summary of the issue with a lot of the posts in this thread. On most of the AT one can just roll on into an area thinking they'll find a spot (where it's legal to do this of course), and can wander around a bit up and down the AT or side trails and usually find something in a reasonable amount of time without expending a lot of energy. In the Whites and Southern ME this isn't the case. A lot of terrain literally just does not have room for one to lay down on the ground much less set up a tent, and wandering around is much more strenuous and time consuming. I remember trying to step off trail one time when I was somewhere in the Whites to use the bathroom and the pine trees were so close together I was having trouble getting in between them.

    So anyway, like I said I concur with your post. There's lots of people that get in on various threads and say that something is easy (hanging a bear line, digging a cat hole with a stick, etc.) and it's really not. I know most people on here know that, but for inexperienced folks that may be reading these threads this is giving them bad advice.
    AT: 2007-2019 (45 sections)
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserker View Post
    This is a very good high level summary of the issue with a lot of the posts in this thread. On most of the AT one can just roll on into an area thinking they'll find a spot (where it's legal to do this of course), and can wander around a bit up and down the AT or side trails and usually find something in a reasonable amount of time without expending a lot of energy. In the Whites and Southern ME this isn't the case. A lot of terrain literally just does not have room for one to lay down on the ground much less set up a tent, and wandering around is much more strenuous and time consuming. I remember trying to step off trail one time when I was somewhere in the Whites to use the bathroom and the pine trees were so close together I was having trouble getting in between them.

    So anyway, like I said I concur with your post. There's lots of people that get in on various threads and say that something is easy (hanging a bear line, digging a cat hole with a stick, etc.) and it's really not. I know most people on here know that, but for inexperienced folks that may be reading these threads this is giving them bad advice.
    no one on this thread said anything about it being easy.

    but one or two people seem to be of the opinion its not even worth discussing.

  10. #130

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    Hanover, NH to Grafton Notch, ME
    Type Start End Description Miles Total Days Total Elevation Gain
    Pack Hanover, NH Kinsman Notch 52 52 3.5 3.5 16,300
    Hostel The Notch Hostel 52 3.5
    Slack Kinsman Notch Franconia Notch 17.1 69.1 1 4.5 5,280
    Hostel The Notch Hostel 69.1 4.5
    Pack Franconia Notch Crawford Notch 27.7 96.8 2 6.5 9,120
    Pack Crawford Notch Pinkham Notch 26 122.8 2 8.5 9,580
    Hostel Rattle River Hostel 122.8 8.5
    Slack Pinkham Notch Gorham, NH 21 143.8 1 9.5 7,140
    Hostel Rattle River Hostel 143.8 9.5
    Pack Gorham, NH Grafton Notch, ME Average of 11.7 MPD 31.1 174.9 3 12.5 11,540


    As I know it all (or most) goes out the window on day 1 of the trip, I decided to try and map this out on a section by section basis, allotting estimated days for each section instead of a day by day itinerary as I KNOW that is more or less wasting my time. Doing it this way helped me get a really good grasp of "the notches" where as they all blurred together before

    This schedule does not reflect any zeros but also does not account for all 15 days of the trip. The zeros can be inserted at any of the hostel stays
    Last edited by Gambit McCrae; 04-10-2019 at 11:34.

  11. #131

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    That other thread got me thinking about clothes for the first time.
    Aug 30th - Sept 15th, 2019

    Long sleeve thermal camp shirt (camp)
    zip off pants (camp and or bad weather)
    down puffy
    down Beanie
    hiking shorts
    hiking short sleeve shirt
    2 pair of PhD smartwool socks
    rain jacket
    sunglasses
    2 bandana's

    15* UL Montbell Bag
    Exped Synmat 7
    duplex

    arc blast

    crocs


    Pretty much same as every other 2 week trip except my long sleeve is typically cotton and I carried a 30* bag thru VT this time last year

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    Hanover, NH to Grafton Notch, ME
    Type Start End Description Miles Total Days Total Elevation Gain
    Pack Hanover, NH Kinsman Notch 52 52 3.5 3.5 16,300
    Hostel The Notch Hostel 52 3.5
    Slack Kinsman Notch Franconia Notch 17.1 69.1 1 4.5 5,280
    Hostel The Notch Hostel 69.1 4.5
    Pack Franconia Notch Crawford Notch 27.7 96.8 2 6.5 9,120
    Pack Crawford Notch Pinkham Notch 26 122.8 2 8.5 9,580
    Hostel Rattle River Hostel 122.8 8.5
    Slack Pinkham Notch Gorham, NH 21 143.8 1 9.5 7,140
    Hostel Rattle River Hostel 143.8 9.5
    Pack Gorham, NH Grafton Notch, ME Average of 11.7 MPD 31.1 174.9 3 12.5 11,540


    As I know it all (or most) goes out the window on day 1 of the trip, I decided to try and map this out on a section by section basis, allotting estimated days for each section instead of a day by day itinerary as I KNOW that is more or less wasting my time. Doing it this way helped me get a really good grasp of "the notches" where as they all blurred together before

    This schedule does not reflect any zeros but also does not account for all 15 days of the trip. The zeros can be inserted at any of the hostel stays
    3.5 days for hanover to kinsman notch is a bit too high
    1 day for pinkham notch to gorham is optimistic bordering on unreasonable.
    and someone will no doubt say no way, but gorham to grafton notch is more like a 2.5. so if you say pinkham notch to grafton notch in 4 days (which you basically have) i'd say sure.

    otherwise, yeah, thats pretty on. of course as discussed above there are camping problems that complicate this, especially at crawford notch.

  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    3.5 days for hanover to kinsman notch is a bit too high
    1 day for pinkham notch to gorham is optimistic bordering on unreasonable.
    notch.
    3 days for Hanover to kinsman?

    Pinkham to Gorham as a slack pack still unreasonable? Rattle river hostel advertises this stretch as a tough slack pack.

  14. #134
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    Pinkham to Gorham is a tough slackpack, thru hikers do it all the time and usually take a zero the next day as they are beat up. There are two very steep climbs (some of the steepest in the whites) and a two steep drops plus a bunch of puds along the ridgeline. It is definitely sunrise to sunset. If you have the bucks, Carter Notch Hut is a nice option to break it into two reasonable days. Carter Notch is the least popular of the AMC huts so you may be able to get a last minute reservation. If not you need to drop off the AT at C notch and go downhill a mile or so to find flat spots to camp that are legal from Carter Notch or there are a few patches of softwood along the ridge between South Carter and North Carter where you can just scoot under the branches and set up a tent just off the side of the trail. These are dry camp spots. Note in later summer this entire ridgeline doesn't have reliable water except at Carter Notch and Imp Shelter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    3 days for Hanover to kinsman?

    Pinkham to Gorham as a slack pack still unreasonable? Rattle river hostel advertises this stretch as a tough slack pack.
    i've seen and heard of plenty of people who do it but i don't think i'd want to. from pinkham over wildcat and then up carter dome is a nightmare. the thought of doing that and then walking 12 more miles or whatever it is.... yeesh. though the last 4 or so is super easy.

    interesting to see how your plans have evolved, have you abandoned "i want to sleep in my tent every night" ?

  16. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    i've seen and heard of plenty of people who do it but i don't think i'd want to. from pinkham over wildcat and then up carter dome is a nightmare. the thought of doing that and then walking 12 more miles or whatever it is.... yeesh. though the last 4 or so is super easy.

    interesting to see how your plans have evolved, have you abandoned "i want to sleep in my tent every night" ?
    Ive never been against staying in hostels, i have been against “hut to hut” from the beginning

  17. #137

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    Less then 30 days away now...I feel good about the trip. I am not as physically fit as I had hoped I would be for this trip but oh well...it is what it is.

    I am prepared to take it day by day, make plans on the fly, cut days a little short or push on thru the evening. MPD goal is set at 11 with 2 zeros. My biggest hope is for good weather. The rest will fall into place

  18. #138
    Registered User QuietStorm's Avatar
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    Good idea. You won't have as much daylight as I did in June but flexibility in the Whites is a virtue.

  19. #139
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    Gambit, my daughter did Hanover to Lincoln about 3 weeks ago. I did the rest of the Whites and the wildcats in 2018.

    Here are a couple random tips:
    - The Indian place in Hanover is really, really good if you like that type of food.
    - You can get stove fuel at the True Value hardware but they close at 5:30.
    -Wachipauka "pond" is a great place to camp, one of the best place ever on the trail for me. It is really a lake. The water is perfect for swimming and there are several nice camping spots. It is worth planning around.
    - There is a really nice stealth spot by a stream at mile 1778.1. It is a about a mile short of the Hexacuba shelter.
    - Don't miss the side view from North Kinsman where you have a wonderful view of Francona Ridge.

  20. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    I am pretty sure I have seen places to pitch a tent along the 19 Mile Brook Trail just outside of the FPA, or maybe on the Wildcat Ridge section of the AT in that same general area.

    Not 100% sure though - never camped there myself.

    One thing to keep in mind is that so long as you are 1/4 mile from the hut, there is no requirement that you head off the tail 200 feet in that area (it is not a designated wilderness) so you could camp at a spot right along the AT or the 19 Mile Brook Trail if you found one.

    Finding sites (albeit marginal ones) just outside a 1/4 mile FPA is rather common, as it is at Trail junctions.
    I just went through there last week. The site at the junction of the AT and 19 Mile Brook Trail at the bottom of Wildcat is inside the FPA. There are a couple of other sites, just outside the FPA, one on the AT going up to Carter Dome and another one on the Wildcat River Trail. Ask the croo at the hut - they will give you directions. Also seems like a good spot for Work for Stay - when I stayed there the thru doing WFS just did some kitchen cleaning in the evening - no work in the morning.

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