Waterproof Breathable?

[peakbagger]

I do have Pro Shell Goretex winter gear and it works pretty well but its not magic. It does move moisture from perspiration from inside the jacket to the outside of the shell. The thing many folks do not realize is the material also has a DWR coating on the outside that is essential to keep the water from soaking in. It causes water to bead on the surface and run off rather then soaking in. Unfortunately the DWR coating tends to wear out far quicker then the jacket. The Goretex membrane can get clogged with oils and grease. The net result is the gear needs to be kept clean with an appropriate cleaning product and occasionally re-coated.

[Time Zone]

My experience with DWR is that it indeed beads up water beautifully - like a freshly waxed car. For about 30 minutes. Then it wets out.

Next time out it'll do the same thing, except that maybe after 28 minutes it wets out. And so it goes.

So I'm not entirely convinced that wetting out is a function of DWR wearing off. I think it's a bit more complicated.

[Dogwood]

I do have Pro Shell Goretex winter gear and it works pretty well but its not magic. It does move moisture from perspiration from inside the jacket to the outside of the shell. The thing many folks do not realize is the material also has a DWR coating on the outside that is essential to keep the water from soaking in. It causes water to bead on the surface and run off rather then soaking in. Unfortunately the DWR coating tends to wear out far quicker then the jacket. The Goretex membrane can get clogged with oils and grease. The net result is the gear needs to be kept clean with an appropriate cleaning product and occasionally re-coated.

YUP. Add to that grime, minerals and oils in sweat, hygiene products, lotions and careless insect repellent applications. Observe how many on WB and in the field revel in stating how filthy, and probably oily, they get. This affects apparel performance. Then we the USER not only misuses WPB apparel through sub optimal applications we further increase performance fall offs by not maintaining it. This is observed even by hikers with vast diverse experience some with highly acclaimed credentials, and very popular websites and authors of outdoor and adventure "how to" books and articles.


What happens next? We fall habitually back to placing the root cause blame on that which is outside of us - it must be this WPB apparel crap is all BS.

Yeah, no kidding you're WPB membrane is lacking. You have not done what was required to maintain it. Is that all the gear's fault?

[DuneElliot]

Since the places I hike are cold when it rains and I pretty quickly suffer from the cold if it continues too long I prefer non-breathable waterproof everything as I just don't get hot enough to sweat when the weather is that miserable. I will also adjust my speed and hiking intensity if I start getting warm. However, I also carry a second layer pf rain protection with a LW poncho so during brief but intense storms I can keep both myself and the dogs dry while just waiting it out. It is never warm enough in the west during a rain storm to "just get wet" although once it quits you do tend to dry out fairly quickly.

[Cheyou]

https://sectionhiker.com/why-does-dwr-suck/

[Five Tango]

From my experience,my preference is to hike in my Light Heart Gear pvc rain jacket during the day.Awesome pit zips,two exterior zip pockets,two huge interior slash pockets,total weight 7 oz and hard to beat at $99 that I paid for it.Yep,it will get wet with condensate inside;particularly in cold weather.And I sprung for the matching rain mitts which I also like,just wear them over a glove when hiking to prevent a blister.The LHG pvc will get you wet but you will likely be warm as long as you're active.But when you stop you can expect to cool down soon.

So I keep my light weight Frogg Togg in the pack for evening camp wear.Set up camp,remove wet jacket and shirts,put on the sleep clothes upper layer,and cover the night clothes in a dry FT or my little Marmot wind breaker to protect the dry night clothes from moisture,or more importantly,food odor spills as I store it in an odor barrier bag with the day clothes overnight.

My two jacket system still weighs less than my Marmot Precip Jacket and I like the versatility of having some backup and options.Only recently have I tried the rain kilt.I really like the AGG rain kilt although I do feel like an idiot wearing it.(but the kilt is a real solution to stay warm and dry in the precip).

I owned a gore tex jacket some years ago which eventually wetted out on me at an inopportune moment-so much for that.........

[Feral Bill]

From my experience,my preference is to hike in my Light Heart Gear pvc rain jacket during the day.Awesome pit zips,two exterior zip pockets,two huge interior slash pockets,total weight 7 oz and hard to beat at $99 that I paid for it.Yep,it will get wet with condensate inside;particularly in cold weather.And I sprung for the matching rain mitts which I also like,just wear them over a glove when hiking to prevent a blister.The LHG pvc will get you wet but you will likely be warm as long as you're active.But when you stop you can expect to cool down soon.

So I keep my light weight Frogg Togg in the pack for evening camp wear.Set up camp,remove wet jacket and shirts,put on the sleep clothes upper layer,and cover the night clothes in a dry FT or my little Marmot wind breaker to protect the dry night clothes from moisture,or more importantly,food odor spills as I store it in an odor barrier bag with the day clothes overnight.

My two jacket system still weighs less than my Marmot Precip Jacket and I like the versatility of having some backup and options.Only recently have I tried the rain kilt.I really like the AGG rain kilt although I do feel like an idiot wearing it.(but the kilt is a real solution to stay warm and dry in the precip).

I owned a gore tex jacket some years ago which eventually wetted out on me at an inopportune moment-so much for that.........

I believe the very nice LHG rain jacket is coated with something other than PVC. (Just checked. Mine is Silnylon, some other colors are silicon out and urethane inside.) I just got one and eagerly await some awful weather.

[Cheyou]

I’ll pass on the Gore-Tex type clothing . Cost to much , bad for the environment don’t keep me as dry as cheep silnylon and weigh more . Like umbrellas to.

Thom

[Five Tango]

I believe the very nice LHG rain jacket is coated with something other than PVC. (Just checked. Mine is Silnylon, some other colors are silicon out and urethane inside.) I just got one and eagerly await some awful weather.

I stand corrected-mine is the silnylon outside and PU inside.Tougher than a Frogg Togg and the zipper vents are more than ample.I probably would have been better off to remove my outer shirt and hiked in a quick drying polyester long sleeve tee shirt under the jacket.Here's a link if anybody wants to see the site https://lightheartgear.com/collectio...ts/rain-jacket

[Dogwood]

Brain fart. What's the AGG rain kilt Five Tango?

[towerclimber727]

I haven't found anything yet to be honest...im starting to think it's an oxymoron. I try to stick with breathable as much as possible so it'll at least dry quicker.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

[Traffic Jam]

I guess it depends on your expectations. I never expect to stay 100% dry. If it keeps my relatively dry in a downpour, I’m happy.

[Feral Bill]

I stand corrected-mine is the silnylon outside and PU inside.Tougher than a Frogg Togg and the zipper vents are more than ample.I probably would have been better off to remove my outer shirt and hiked in a quick drying polyester long sleeve tee shirt under the jacket.Here's a link if anybody wants to see the site https://lightheartgear.com/collectio...ts/rain-jacket

I'll add that they are very easy to work with, and a sponsor of this site. Judy is also a participant here.

[Dogwood]

Never mind. Antigravity gear.

[cmoulder]

I'll add that they are very easy to work with, and a sponsor of this site. Judy is also a participant here.

Agree that LHG is good stuff. I just got a hoodie pack cover with the thought of pairing it with a FroggTogg raincoat. I have a zpacks cuben poncho, which I prefer in warmer weather — when it doesn't much matter if forearms/hands get wet — but I'm looking forward to some crappy weather to check this out on some quick local hikes. I got the silnylon in blaze orange, which is the brightest, most retina-scorching color I think I've ever seen.

[Ethesis]

Gortex can be a death trap. The stuff works OK..... UNLESS you are hiking. If you are hiking all day in the rain it will be a total failure. At the end of the day in cold weather you will be soaked to the skin and unless you are ready with dry warm clothing you will freeze to death. Plan on it.

mine actually worked.

[MuddyWaters]

My experience with DWR is that it indeed beads up water beautifully - like a freshly waxed car. For about 30 minutes. Then it wets out.

Next time out it'll do the same thing, except that maybe after 28 minutes it wets out. And so it goes.

So I'm not entirely convinced that wetting out is a function of DWR wearing off. I think it's a bit more complicated.

Yep, dirt, sweat, oils all reduce hydrophobic properties.

Luckily, dwr is superceded by permanently repellent fabrics like columbia outdry. This is a new paradigm, dwr is so innefective you wont see it in a few yrs in rainjackets

[Wise Old Owl]

Tested my Mil rated Gortex and 300 weight fleece in some of the worst hikes locally in PA - snow storms, wind, wet, cold and miserable. So long as I kept it clean it works.

[Time Zone]

Yep, dirt, sweat, oils all reduce hydrophobic properties.

The items in question were brand new. No dirt sweat oils unless it came that way from the store. But ...

oils reducing hydrophobic properties? Oil is pretty hydrophobic itself, isn't it? Oil and water?

[Wise Old Owl]

The items in question were brand new. No dirt sweat oils unless it came that way from the store. But ...

oils reducing hydrophobic properties? Oil is pretty hydrophobic itself, isn't it? Oil and water?

Sorry Time Zone, The day before Thanksgiving we had a "coffee meeting" in the morning at a nearby shelter for WB members. As a group we reviewed the video presented below to bring a few up to speed... It's OK that you may have not participated. As I know the intricate details of Gore and Dupont as I am a Dupont BRAT. I thought I would share. My intentions are to help the group understand that dirt and oil will clog the material and it does need to be clean.....Enjoy!