Modern language

[KnightErrant]

Ever heard this quote? "Intellectual laziness and the hurry of the age have produced a craving for [instant gratification in media]. The torpid brain has grown too weak for sustained thought. There never was an age in which so many people were able to write badly."

The specific profanity element aside, that's what this conversation reminds me of.

The funny thing is, that quote is from the year 1891.

Xkcd did a wonderful collection of these timeless "The useless youths don't take the time to talk proper!!" rants from the turn of the 20th century to illustrate that every generation believes the following generation is failing at communication and life in general. You can read them here: https://xkcd.com/1227/ Personally, I think this is a natural result of the fact that we tend to judge our generation based on ourselves and our friends, while judging other generations-- particularly younger ones-- based on the worst examples that we observe (in person or on tv/internet/etc). Combine that with the fact that language is constantly and quickly evolving and an older person might not understand the language that young people are using to communicate among themselves, and you have older people convinced that the English language is positively doomed. Of course, there are stupid and careless people of every generation, so sometimes people really do use language poorly. But in general, sit back and relax, folks. The kids are alright.

But regarding the original topic of profanity, I do think it's partially regional. I met two women from Boston on the AT this year and felt myself literally flinch a couple of times when I first met them and heard them cussing people out over mundane things. It took a mutual trail friend to talk about how nice they were before I realized that the profanity was just a normal part of their speech and that it didn't mean they were angry or insulting, and in fact they were nice ladies. I also think it relates to how most popular TV shows these days are not network shows that censor profanity. Instead it's all Netflix, HBO, Hulu, etc. where there's almost a competition over who can be the most profane and "edgy". I think sparsely-used profanity can pack a meaningful punch in conversation or in comedy, but when practically every noun in a sentence is modified by the adjective "f*****g" the words just become noise. Not a fan. There were definitely people like that out on the trail this year, but I didn't observe it to be a generational thing.

[Puddlefish]

You can tell your own kids not to swear, you can lie to them and tell them that it's a sign of lack of intelligence, of poor vocabulary, whatever your prudish reason is. What is comes down to is that there's no actual connection between curse words and intelligence or vocabulary no matter how much your parents might have told you this. Language evolves, old people yell at clouds and think fondly of days that never were, generations make wild generalizations about each other. This has been going on since the dawn of history.

The great thing about being on the trail, is that you get to talk to all different kinds of people, you meet people you wouldn't have otherwise met. Accept them for what they are. Overcome language differences, overcome cultural differences, overcome generational differences. Don't look for a reason to be offended.

[Dogwood]

I have a question for those that have done thru hikes. Did you find those somewhere into their thru hikes especially nearing the end using less profanity than early on? On two AT NOBO's even when I was among those from the northeast with angrier attitudes using copious profanity I recognized later on these people less prone to using profanity. On a 08 PCT NOBO and on several later LONG PCT LASHes profanity was almost unheard. I too on that first AT NOBO found myself less prone to using profanity the further I went. I take from this culture and GroupSpeak having a profound influence on using profanity. I take from these observations sobering up outside of culture to have great benefits we aren't fully aware of until we're outside of it.

[putts]

You can tell your own kids not to swear, you can lie to them and tell them that it's a sign of lack of intelligence, of poor vocabulary, whatever your prudish reason is. What is comes down to is that there's no actual connection between curse words and intelligence or vocabulary no matter how much your parents might have told you this. Language evolves, old people yell at clouds and think fondly of days that never were, generations make wild generalizations about each other. This has been going on since the dawn of history.

The great thing about being on the trail, is that you get to talk to all different kinds of people, you meet people you wouldn't have otherwise met. Accept them for what they are. Overcome language differences, overcome cultural differences, overcome generational differences. Don't look for a reason to be offended.

I agree with this.

...And I'm reminded of the man who I met on my SOBO thru hike. He was in his 60's, cussed constantly, very "rough around the edges". In fact, I was just talking to a friend about him because we spent Thanksgiving on the trail together. He was EXTREMELY intelligent, and the words between the cuss words were filled with so much wisdom. Not silly trail B.S. ---oh no! I said S!!!-- He spoke from a heart of gold about life, ups, downs, love, struggle, turmoil, peace - He was a blessing to listen to.

[perdidochas]

I have followed TNhiker’s thread, Campfire Etiquette. Got me thinking of my last AT hike this past summer, and an issue, concern that’s been building with me for a while. “What’s with the constant use of foul language, by mostly young people on the trail”. Not to generalize too much, not to say it’s all Millenials, and certainly not being a prude as I feel I know the right time and place to let bad language fly, but I sit and listen to these guys and girls talk like they’ve got no idea. Like it’s normal to inject swearing into all discussion, all the time. I understand we all have different norms, times change, all that, but it just feels like supposedly intelligent people have dumbed down too much on the trail. It’s easy to get comfortable with friends on the AT, and from observation, no one seems to care who’s around, who’s listening, who might be offended by bad language.

in the end, I guess I’m mostly concerned at how little people try to speak proper English, making themselves sound less intelligent than I assume they are.

Feel free to agree with me, jump on me, swear at me! I don’t expect this “problem” to go away or get any better. I just thought I’d elaborate on a trend I have noticed.

It's an age thing. I remember being in my early 20s back in the late 1980s, and for a while I was cursing like a sailor (I could use the F-bomb as most parts of speech--interjection, adverb, adjective, noun and verb (couldn't use it as a conjunction). Visited home, and almost dropped the f-bomb around my mom, and then realized that I had to fix my vocabulary. Now, about the only time I use profanity is when I hurt myself.

[perdidochas]

I also remember the first time I saw Buddy Hackett's stage routine, after seeing him on network TV for years. He was a lot funnier on Ed Sullivan when he couldn't use curse words as a crutch.

And speaking of movies, I just saw "Old Man With a Gun" (Robert Redford), and neither my wife nor I could remember a single swear the entire movie.

I agree in terms of comics--most are better without swear words. Eddie Murphy's greatest comedic work was when he was on SNL and had TV censorship.

[perdidochas]

Ever heard this quote? "Intellectual laziness and the hurry of the age have produced a craving for [instant gratification in media]. The torpid brain has grown too weak for sustained thought. There never was an age in which so many people were able to write badly."

The specific profanity element aside, that's what this conversation reminds me of.

The funny thing is, that quote is from the year 1891.

Xkcd did a wonderful collection of these timeless "The useless youths don't take the time to talk proper!!" rants from the turn of the 20th century to illustrate that every generation believes the following generation is failing at communication and life in general. You can read them here: https://xkcd.com/1227/ Personally, I think this is a natural result of the fact that we tend to judge our generation based on ourselves and our friends, while judging other generations-- particularly younger ones-- based on the worst examples that we observe (in person or on tv/internet/etc). Combine that with the fact that language is constantly and quickly evolving and an older person might not understand the language that young people are using to communicate among themselves, and you have older people convinced that the English language is positively doomed. Of course, there are stupid and careless people of every generation, so sometimes people really do use language poorly. But in general, sit back and relax, folks. The kids are alright.

But regarding the original topic of profanity, I do think it's partially regional. I met two women from Boston on the AT this year and felt myself literally flinch a couple of times when I first met them and heard them cussing people out over mundane things. It took a mutual trail friend to talk about how nice they were before I realized that the profanity was just a normal part of their speech and that it didn't mean they were angry or insulting, and in fact they were nice ladies. I also think it relates to how most popular TV shows these days are not network shows that censor profanity. Instead it's all Netflix, HBO, Hulu, etc. where there's almost a competition over who can be the most profane and "edgy". I think sparsely-used profanity can pack a meaningful punch in conversation or in comedy, but when practically every noun in a sentence is modified by the adjective "f*****g" the words just become noise. Not a fan. There were definitely people like that out on the trail this year, but I didn't observe it to be a generational thing.

I understand that, I used to have a roommate from the Boston area. He prided himself in creative use of the F-bomb.

[chknfngrs]

I am honestly trying to eliminate the use of profane language, but struggle when surrounded by people who continue to use it. I told myself I would not swear today but already have slipped because of a colleague’s use of it when describing his thanksgiving holiday. Still my fault because I can’t isolate myself much as I try

[Dogwood]

Have you tried clothespins?

[Astro]

Have you tried clothespins?

We used vinegar with our children.

[greensleep]

Edit: I meant to write "after 200 years" our abilities to think and communicate seem to have regressed, etc.

So, like, you know, like, literally, like, hashtag "I think to myself", like, 24/7; god bless. Like.

[putts]

So, like, you know, like, literally, like, hashtag "I think to myself", like, 24/7; god bless. Like.

OMG u literally forgot the tidepod emoji

[Dogwood]

One of my nieces talks like that...and she's not even, like, you know, like from the Valley.

[rickb]

I understand that, I used to have a roommate from the Boston area. He prided himself in creative use of the F-bomb.

It’s Big Pappi’s fault.

[TNhiker]

We used vinegar with our children.

does it make them taste better?

pickled?

[Astro]

does it make them taste better?

pickled?

Well it did improve their vocabulary.

[perrymk]

[English Stu]

The F word is poverty of vocabulary, bad to hear even worse to see written down.

[GankenBerry]

i've had some insane conversations with people on the trail. some of the things i've heard were enough to make me push on an extra 8+ miles to avoid future interactions.

[Rift Zone]

What properties give such notorious words their curious status? What is it about them that makes them taboo? Our language has a profusion of combinations of sounds, but somehow a few select combinations can freak people out by nature of their utterance alone? What kind of bull**** is that? -is what you should be asking yourselves. The answer is simply culture. Somewhere in your cultural lineage someone pulled some bull**** straight out of their ass, all about that word is bad, and shouldn't be used. Okay, fair enough. I'm cool with that. But you can stop right now with thinking you occupy some moral high ground because your culture pulled some bull**** straight out of its ass, while other cultural lineages to do not bear that property. Realize it is simply culture/environment on both sides.
[which is to say: if you make it mean more than environmental convention, then you are deluding yourself.]

Furthermore, run a search on "profanity and intelligence". You will find psychology overwhelmingly supports the notion cussing mofo's are smarter than the ones who pay close attention to some bull**** pulled straight out of someone's ass. -go figure.

[which is to say: let's not go there, as if swearing was a mark of diminished capacity... I've seen that hinted at. The truth is bright people cuss too.]