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  1. #21
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    heading southbound in MA approaching rt 20 outside of lee the trail intersects with a maze of snowmobile and other trails. i missed a turn somewhere and ended up on one of the other trails. it emptied out onto the rd maybe a few hundred feet away from the AT crossing, I walked back over to the AT's road crossing and continued on south.

    so i missed a few hundred feet of trail because i walked that same stretch (which is all just non-descript gently downhill walking through the forest) on an adjacent trail.

    there are some people who will say "you didnt complete the trail!" if i dont go back and hike that few hundred totally inconsequential feet.

    i have nothing polite to say to those people.

  2. #22
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    It ain't pure til one licks all the blazes....


    just sayin'

  3. #23

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    Yeah, unless you tasted a white blaze that tasted like an orange, a white blaze that tasted like a pineapple, a white blaze that tasted like a strawberry, a white blaze that tasted like snazberries,... you haven't taken the complete tour of the AT factory.

    Maybe, what's needed is a compostela Camino de Appalachian? Ahh, wait, ah wait minute, you're missing a stamp.


    Merry Christmas everyone.

  4. #24
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    The purists tend to thin out after a few months on the trail. In the whites the Crawford Path and the Gulfside are foul weather routes in spots that skip the actual summits and ridgeline. I expect more than few folks follow the ridgeline on a nice day
    Very cool to bag some of the peaks that the historic Crawford Path (Section of AT) skirts around (check them off your 4000 footer list!) but since you are above treeline anyway, are the views any better if you go up and over them?

    Not really.

    I expect there are exceptions — I am foggy on the foul weather routes and that is a whole other kettle of fish.

    I am thinking that the AT used to go around Mt Height (Which was on a very short blue blaze at one time) which has a really nice view in the Carters.

  5. #25
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    D
    Quote Originally Posted by tdoczi View Post
    heading southbound in MA approaching rt 20 outside of lee the trail intersects with a maze of snowmobile and other trails. i missed a turn somewhere and ended up on one of the other trails. it emptied out onto the rd maybe a few hundred feet away from the AT crossing, I walked back over to the AT's road crossing and continued on south.

    so i missed a few hundred feet of trail because i walked that same stretch (which is all just non-descript gently downhill walking through the forest) on an adjacent trail.

    there are some people who will say "you didnt complete the trail!" if i dont go back and hike that few hundred totally inconsequential feet.

    i have nothing polite to say to those people.
    Sounds like you missed less of the blazed AT than Earl Shaffer did.

    It may be a coincidence, but the ATC modified their written 2000 Miler requirements to include the “Honest Effort” part after I pointed out on line that by Wingfoot’s standard, Earl was not the first thru hiker to become a 2000 miler.

    Can you say cognitive dissonance?

    In Earl’s case, he shared with the ATC that he missed some of the official Trail in the Whites because he failed to receive his maps on time, and ended up taking a route that was just as long.

    You are in good company, Todczi.
    Last edited by rickb; 12-25-2018 at 08:15.

  6. #26
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    Merry Christmas to the WhiteBlaze community!!

    One thing to add to this discussion: If you are trying to set some sort of record, a Fastest Known Time, or FKT, you'd better pass every blaze and provide proof four different ways. Yellow-blue-pink-aqua-rainbow blazing will get you disqualified! Gotta be a purist to set an FKT. Just sayin'.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNhiker View Post
    It ain't pure til one licks all the blazes....


    just sayin'
    That's what I'm talking about! Loyalty!
    Lol omg that's awesome.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible." -Feynman

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    Very cool to bag some of the peaks that the historic Crawford Path (Section of AT) skirts around (check them off your 4000 footer list!) but since you are above treeline anyway, are the views any better if you go up and over them?

    Not really.

    I expect there are exceptions — I am foggy on the foul weather routes and that is a whole other kettle of fish.

    I am thinking that the AT used to go around Mt Height (Which was on a very short blue blaze at one time) which has a really nice view in the Carters.
    It definitely makes a big difference for some of the summits, the Crawford Path goes around Eisenhower just below treeline in the krummholz with zero views. The blue blaze over Eisenhower is really nice as the summit of Eisenhower is probably the most classic dome shape in the whites. The AT turn off to the Crawford Path is very confusing in this area and I expect many south bounders end up going partway up the summit before they realize they are on a blue blaze (I met a southbounder this summer who had missed the turn). Monroe and little Monroe both are bypassed by the Crawford Path. The AT goes through a nice flat "lawn" that has some nice alpine flowers in early summer but the blue blaze has a bit of a knife edge in spots and has great views down to the Lakes of the Clouds that are missed entirely by the AT. On the Gulfside north of Mt Washington, the AT skips Mt Clay which sits along the headwall of the Great Gulf. The AT does traverse a similar section just south of the Mt Clay turnoff but it doesnt have the combination of a top of a ridgeline and the steep dropoff that the Mt Clay blue blaze has. The Gulfside bypass around Jefferson is a mixed blessing. It does have some krummholz but a lot is hiking across lawns and the views down to Jefferson's Knees are superior to the blue blaze. The blueblaze up over the summit does have great views west that rival Mt Washington. Jefferson sits a bit northwest of the main presidential ridgeline and the west side of the summit drops down quickly with no major mountains in view until the Green Mountains in VT. Mt Adams is also bypassed by the Gulfside. Its the second highest mountain in New England and is not trashed like the summit of Mt Washington. It also drops off steeply into Great Gulf with great views in all directions. The blue blaze is short so I expect many folks take the time to visit it.

    The problem with the presidential ridge for most thru hikers are that they frequently are in rush as unless they have expensive reservations at the huts, many are trying to do it in two days. If the do the conventional Northbound they are starting at Nauman tentsite and then they are either shooting for the Dungeon at Lake of the Crowds of the unofficial Jewell site or the illegal Sphinx col spot. Some really dedicated folks head to the RMC Perch. All of these destinations means a long day and expect the temptation is stick to the ridgeline and do the blueblazes as they dont have time to do the up and back to fiil in the white blazed bypasses. Add a reserved night at Lake of the Crowds into the mix and then they have more time to play and do the blue blazes but if they leave it to chance and hope for a slot late in the day at LOC they most likely are not going to get one. Southbound has similar if not worse issues, may start at Osgood Tentsite and then have to do the steep climb up to the ridge. If they stop at Valley Way for event the Perch the next day is long one to Nauman.

    I have heard some debate over the southerly loop over the Wildcats. Given that AMC was a major supporter of the AT and had a path to Crawford Hut from their Pinkham Notch location over the Wildcats long before the AT they were included but with the exception of the views down the ski slope, the views per mile are a bit lower then the rest of the Whites. The AT could have just had easily taken a turn down the Great Gulf trail and then over to 19 mile brook trail and up to Carter Notch. The same views per mile deficit could be said of the Carters but at expect they were needed to connect up with the Mahoosucs. The other option was just follow the old Pine Link (the lower section s now called the Pine Mountain trail all the way to Gorham from the top of Madison and skip the entire Carter Moriah range
    Last edited by peakbagger; 12-25-2018 at 10:14.

  9. #29
    Registered User Bubblehead's Avatar
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    I've hiked Springer Approach to Southern Massachusetts, and hope to finish the trail starting in May, 2019. So far, I've carried my pack on my back the entire way, and passed every white blaze with the exception of about a quarter of a mile leading downhill into DWG, where I missed a blaze and got off trail, having to bushwhack my way back to the trail in very thick rhododendron bushes...not a fun experience!
    That being said, I would like to finish the trail with my pack on my back; but I have yet to experience the Whites and rugged southern Maine. I've read where slack packing occurs more often in this area due to the degree of difficulty and remoteness of the trail. But if I get there, and I need to slack pack to increase my chances of finishing the trail, or taking a blue blaze in difficult weather conditions, I will do so...

  10. #30

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    If I ever decided to hike the whole thing in one go I don't think I'd be a purist. If I wanted to take a different trail or raft or whatever along the way I'd do it as long as I walked to Maine. I don't have anything to prove.

  11. #31
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    Earl Shaeffer even yellow blazed some and missed some of the actual trail on the FirstKnownThruhike. Was Still a thru hike in my book.
    Even tho a lot of things are different now. Anybody that misses a section or two like that on accident, can still claim themselves thru hiker and be proud of their accomplishment.
    And if upon completion they find out they missed a section, and they want to go back to NC after they find out... They are their own person.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubblehead View Post
    I've hiked Springer Approach to Southern Massachusetts, and hope to finish the trail starting in May, 2019. So far, I've carried my pack on my back the entire way, and passed every white blaze with the exception of about a quarter of a mile leading downhill into DWG, where I missed a blaze and got off trail, having to bushwhack my way back to the trail in very thick rhododendron bushes...not a fun experience!
    That being said, I would like to finish the trail with my pack on my back; but I have yet to experience the Whites and rugged southern Maine. I've read where slack packing occurs more often in this area due to the degree of difficulty and remoteness of the trail. But if I get there, and I need to slack pack to increase my chances of finishing the trail, or taking a blue blaze in difficult weather conditions, I will do so...
    Many conventional thruhikers seem to make the switch to slackpacks in Gorham NH. The main part of the whites may have beat them up a bit and many hitch down from Pinkham to Gorham for a break. Several of the local hostels offer a slackpack drop off at Pinkham to do the Wildcats, Carters and Moriah in one day and many thruhikers take them up on it as camping logistics in this stretch is a bit more difficult. The same issue occurs after the Mahoosucs. Its the longest stretch of the AT with no road crossings public or private north of the smokies and its lot more rugged for many than expected. The folks in Andover make a very tempting proposition for a slack and stay after the Mahoosucs. I expect there is also a bit of Katahdin fever that kicks in while in Gorham. Gorham is the last town where there is easy access to go home, just hop on a bus and few hours later they are in Boston. For some folks its the logical end for a thru hike when the funds, motivation or time run low as they still got the whites in. Later season hikers can get concerned about Katahdin closing early or figuring out a way to do a flip flop so cutting a few days of hauling a pack probably are tempting.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrogLevel View Post
    If I ever decided to hike the whole thing in one go I don't think I'd be a purist. If I wanted to take a different trail or raft or whatever along the way I'd do it as long as I walked to Maine. I don't have anything to prove.
    That's what I'm talking about, all about the journey and what's along the path.

    Besides, not to talk down on the AT, I've been out there, I know what an ass whoop'n it is; but still, doing the AT is way cush compared to doing long distance adventures elsewhere thanks to all the angles, magic, and infrastructure, like right there. Please try not to hate me too much for this, but it's a bunny slope badge. Hike your own hike!

    [seriously, try not to hate me for that. I assure you, I know what a treasure it is, and I fully respect it. I yearn to carry the same honor! I in no way attempt to diminish the achievement. You can believe anyone who rightfully bears it (and I'll go with my earlier 'vote' of at least 2k miles on whiteblazes, leaving one-whatever miles open for some interpretation as my qualification on that) holds my deepest respects. Wasn't an attack. Just in case, for defense, might not be too off.]
    Last edited by Rift Zone; 12-25-2018 at 11:56.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible." -Feynman

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Many conventional thruhikers seem to make the switch to slackpacks in Gorham NH. The main part of the whites may have beat them up a bit and many hitch down from Pinkham to Gorham for a break. Several of the local hostels offer a slackpack drop off at Pinkham to do the Wildcats, Carters and Moriah in one day and many thruhikers take them up on it as camping logistics in this stretch is a bit more difficult. The same issue occurs after the Mahoosucs. Its the longest stretch of the AT with no road crossings public or private north of the smokies and its lot more rugged for many than expected. The folks in Andover make a very tempting proposition for a slack and stay after the Mahoosucs. I expect there is also a bit of Katahdin fever that kicks in while in Gorham. Gorham is the last town where there is easy access to go home, just hop on a bus and few hours later they are in Boston. For some folks its the logical end for a thru hike when the funds, motivation or time run low as they still got the whites in. Later season hikers can get concerned about Katahdin closing early or figuring out a way to do a flip flop so cutting a few days of hauling a pack probably are tempting.
    My girlfriend and I discussed this, why so many people quit at the Maine border. We think it's because they get so geared up for the Whites, that when they complete it, they feel they have done the hard part and the rest will be easy...then the Mahoosucs punch them in the face. I'm pretty sure if they went slower through the Whites, saved some energy, they would have a better chance of completing it. Too many people think they can still do 20 or 25 miles a day.

  15. #35
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    Thanks for the info, Peakbagger

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by egilbe View Post
    My girlfriend and I discussed this, why so many people quit at the Maine border. We think it's because they get so geared up for the Whites, that when they complete it, they feel they have done the hard part and the rest will be easy...then the Mahoosucs punch them in the face. I'm pretty sure if they went slower through the Whites, saved some energy, they would have a better chance of completing it. Too many people think they can still do 20 or 25 miles a day.
    i see this over and over again - slow down take your time and enjoy the whites and Maine instead of beating yourself up...katahdin fever seems to set in and everybody wants to hurry.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift Zone View Post
    That's what I'm talking about, all about the journey and what's along the path.

    Besides, not to talk down on the AT, I've been out there, I know what an ass whoop'n it is; but still, doing the AT is way cush compared to doing long distance adventures elsewhere thanks to all the angles, magic, and infrastructure, like right there. Please try not to hate me too much for this, but it's a bunny slope badge. Hike your own hike!

    [seriously, try not to hate me for that. I assure you, I know what a treasure it is, and I fully respect it. I yearn to carry the same honor! I in no way attempt to diminish the achievement. You can believe anyone who rightfully bears it (and I'll go with my earlier 'vote' of at least 2k miles on whiteblazes, leaving one-whatever miles open for some interpretation as my qualification on that) holds my deepest respects. Wasn't an attack. Just in case, for defense, might not be too off.]
    If the trail was a bunny slope, you'd have alot more actual backpackers finishing it.

    On my thru, I noticed there were FAR less long distance backpackers and many more "thru hikers".

    Do you indentify as along distance backpacker or a thru hiker?

    Either way, you still earn the patch. But theres a substantial difference between the two.

    From what I saw. Most quit or convert to slackpackers. And i mean most. The Long Distance Backpacker gets a special nod from the hiking community. They're not better.

    But their efforts are recognized.




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  18. #38

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    I've never heard a 2000 miler ever call the AT a bunny slope.

    No matter how they hiked it.



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  19. #39

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    I think you could make the argument that the blue blazes to AT shelters are a part of the trail. Therefore if you havent walked past every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by gpburdelljr View Post
    I think you could make the argument that the blue blazes to AT shelters are a part of the trail. Therefore if you havent walked past every white blaze, AND every blue blaze, you havent walked the entire trail.
    In the end, everyones a section hiker anyways.

    Idk anyone who walked from GA-ME and never left the trail.



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