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  1. #1

    Default Switching from 20* to 30* quilt

    Ive been using a quilt for at least 5 years now. I dont ever see myself going back to a "sleeping bag".

    My current quilt is a 3-season 20*. I cant recall a time when I ever felt cold; at least not to the point where I couldnt sleep.

    Ive decided I want to update my quilt and Im considering moving from the 20* to a 30* to save weight and space in my pack.

    It would save me around 10 oz and moving from an 800 fill to a 900 fill would save me space too.

    I am indeed mostly a 3 season backpacker; rarely seeing anything below 20* if that.

    Has anyone made a similar transition and regretted it? The quilt I am looking at has awesome reviews in that folks say theyve been able to take it past 30* easy and I plan on getting 1oz overstuff.

    Any feedback on experience making a similar transition would be apprecaited! Thanks folks

  2. #2

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    10 oz savings? Im not doubting you im sure you've done the subtraction to know this but it just suprises me that it is that much. I guess the 900 fill is absolutely helping in that savings calculation as well. I would say if you are a 3 season hiker, never seeing dips below 20 in your trips, as well as being prepared to couple a light down jacket and other garments on an abnormally cold night that it would be smart to make that change. My experience with quilts is with a zero degree which I use thru the early spring time. Even at that its an EE and zips up so with it being a Wide, I really just end up using it like a sleeping bag.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    10 oz savings? Im not doubting you im sure you've done the subtraction to know this but it just suprises me that it is that much. I guess the 900 fill is absolutely helping in that savings calculation as well. I would say if you are a 3 season hiker, never seeing dips below 20 in your trips, as well as being prepared to couple a light down jacket and other garments on an abnormally cold night that it would be smart to make that change. My experience with quilts is with a zero degree which I use thru the early spring time. Even at that its an EE and zips up so with it being a Wide, I really just end up using it like a sleeping bag.

    Yeah, after I did the math I was surprised too! I suspect its a combination of a higher fill power and newer and better fabrics and design.

  4. #4
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Have you read the testing procedure for arriving at the current astronomical fill power numbers being thrown around these days?
    Fill power wont keep you warm. Loft will keep you warm. Compare loft between your current quilt and the new quilt. Then look at the temperature/loft table at Backpacking Light. Do your homework.
    https://backpackinglight.com/bpl_sle...ion_statement/

    Good luck!
    Wayne

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    Yeah, after I did the math I was surprised too! I suspect its a combination of a higher fill power and newer and better fabrics and design.
    You might want to triple check the numbers (and not just the fill and temp rating)...

    I happen to have two identical sleeping bags, ... same brand, same model, same size, same year. Only difference is one is rated one rated for 32 and another rated for 15. These synthetic fill bags have about a 15oz weight difference for a 17 temperature difference. But you're looking at only a 10 temperature difference with down.

    Compare current models of the Enlightened Equipment Revelation quilt. There is only a 4oz difference between their 20 850 down v 30 950 down quilt. Where is your additional 6oz of savings coming from? Because simply "better materials over the years" seems difficult to account for a 6oz weight savings for a quilt that was less than 2lbs to begin with.

    I'm thinking that either you're looking at bags from different manufacturers, or different models, or the same model that had undergone a radical redesign. If I'm wrong about that, then you need to double check the size specifications (length/width/girth). Because to get a 10oz difference in current models of the Enlightened Equipment Revelations bag, I've got to compare a standard length/width 30 with 950 fill to an extra long extra wide 20 with 850 fill.

  6. #6

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    Im comparing my Golite 20* quilt (26oz) to the Nunatak 30* Arc UL quilt (17.8oz).

    So yes my math was off by 2oz, my bad!

    Ive never measured the dimensions of of my Golite quilt but I know I just bought a standard size and width when I bought it.

  7. #7
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    "Ive decided I want to update my quilt and Im considering moving from the 20* to a 30* to save weight and space in my pack."
    "It would save me around 10 oz and moving from an 800 fill to a 900 fill would save me space too."



    A narrowed analysis bordering on making a stupid light decision - a narrowed decision based on saving wt and volume.
    Yeah and moving from an 800fp down to a 900 fp down IN YOUR CURRENT 20* quilt also saves wt and volume. Possibly a different 20* quilt with lesser wt fabrics or maybe no zipper or shorter zipper or reducing some other added wt features saves more wt. What I'm getting at is your 20* quilt baseline isn't the most UL or least voluminous. It's common to make faulty comparisons doing this. There shouldn't be that great a wt savings - 10 oz - going from a 20* quilt to 30* quilt. There're other factors that aren't being shared in being able to save that much wt in only a 10* difference temp rated comparable quilt.


    "I am indeed mostly a 3 season backpacker; rarely seeing anything below 20* if that."
    "Has anyone made a similar transition and regretted it? The quilt I am looking at has awesome reviews in that folks say they've been able to take it past 30* easy and I plan on getting 1oz overstuff."


    In 5 yrs of quilt use you've had to realize a quilt based sleep system's warmth and comfortability is dramatically influenced by the additional components in the sleep system and other aspects exampled by how one sleeps. Yet no mentioning it. This is important - significantly so - yet too often ignored in quilt based sleep system analysis in regards to saving wt, volume, $, complexity, modular compatibility, performance(warmth, sleeping comfort, warmth to wt ratios, etc). A quilt based sleep system is a modular based sleep system! Perceive it as such in arriving at answers to your questions.
    When I read quilt reviewer's statements like "the quilt I am looking at has awesome reviews in that folks say they've been able to take it past 30*" the FIRST thing I want acknowledged and detailed is HOW that is being accomplished, under what set ups, in what typical usage, etc. With quilt based sleep systems, even more so than sleeping bag based sleep systems, the devil is in the details. *It easily leads to faulty and situationally questionable claims when analyzing a quilt based sleep system on the quilt component alone! This is observed being done even by highly evolved and knowledgeable hiking and gear review forums.


    "Any feedback on experience making a similar transition would be apprecaited! Thanks folks."


    LOL. YES! It would be very easy to come to my own stupid light sleep system decisions in a current revamping of my sleep system quiver if I made those decisions based largely or only on saving wt and volume outside of considering the entire sleep system and own needs and typical usage in different temp rating categories. FWIW, I'm currently seeking a sleep system temp rating for temps between 10-20* as probably my most utilized temp category rating in the quiver. I'm comparing a WM 10* Versalite, Katabatic 15* Sawatch, FF 20* UL Swallow, and a 10* ZP 3/4 zip hybrid quilt. Even with gram weenie ways I know the best decision I can come to has to take in factors beyond wt and volume.


    It's analogous IMHO to taking anything out of context of a larger whole which is how in the field these pieces are normally used while making comparisons i.e.; isolating apparel piece performance/wt/etc in layering approaches(who just wears a shirt or rain jacket?), footwear(socks, footbeds/orthotics, gaiters, pants play a role), shelter systems(a shelter can also be a sleep or part of an apparel system), especially shelter systems using trekking poles or in hammock or bivy based shelters or tarp ponchos for example, food wt and bulk, etc. Isolation analysis and comparisons is certainly useful; do it. BUT, don't stop there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    Have you read the testing procedure for arriving at the current astronomical fill power numbers being thrown around these days?
    Fill power won’t keep you warm. Loft will keep you warm. Compare loft between your current quilt and the new quilt. Then look at the temperature/loft table at Backpacking Light. Do your homework.
    https://backpackinglight.com/bpl_sle...ion_statement/

    Good luck!
    Wayne
    Loft is a good indicator of warmth but not an absolute indicator. For example, in real world usage beyond the lab loft technical measurements, I can have a ton of loft, say in a quilt but still be cold well above the quilt's temp rating because I'm tossing from side to side creating loss of CAPTURED warmth inside the quilt because of drafts and openings in the quilt to the environment. Warmth to wt ratings are guidelines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    Im comparing my Golite 20* quilt (26oz) to the Nunatak 30* Arc UL quilt (17.8oz).

    So yes my math was off by 2oz, my bad!

    Ive never measured the dimensions of of my Golite quilt but I know I just bought a standard size and width when I bought it.
    I won't beat you up over a less than 2oz calculation mistake... especially since even an 8oz difference is still about twice as much of a difference than I would expect IF we were comparing similar quilts that only have a different fill power and temperature rating.

    But now that we know we're talking about two totally different quilts, such a large difference can easily be explained by differences in size, materials, and the possible fact that the two might be using different standards to compute a temperature rating.

  10. #10

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    Im not even including Warbonnets new offering for a 30* quilt coming in at 14.32 oz...

    So here is what I dont understand....

    How can Warbonnet be claiming a 30* quilt at 14.32oz with 9oz of down while Nunataks 30* UL quilt comes in at 17.8 oz with 11.2 oz of down? How can they both be rated at the same temp rating with the variation in down fill?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    "Ive decided I want to update my quilt and Im considering moving from the 20* to a 30* to save weight and space in my pack."
    "It would save me around 10 oz and moving from an 800 fill to a 900 fill would save me space too."



    A narrowed analysis bordering on making a stupid light decision - a narrowed decision based on saving wt and volume.
    Yeah and moving from an 800fp down to a 900 fp down IN YOUR CURRENT 20* quilt also saves wt and volume. Possibly a different 20* quilt with lesser wt fabrics or maybe no zipper or shorter zipper or reducing some other added wt features saves more wt. What I'm getting at is your 20* quilt baseline isn't the most UL or least voluminous. It's common to make faulty comparisons doing this. There shouldn't be that great a wt savings - 10 oz - going from a 20* quilt to 30* quilt. There're other factors that aren't being shared in being able to save that much wt in only a 10* difference temp rated comparable quilt.


    "I am indeed mostly a 3 season backpacker; rarely seeing anything below 20* if that."
    "Has anyone made a similar transition and regretted it? The quilt I am looking at has awesome reviews in that folks say they've been able to take it past 30* easy and I plan on getting 1oz overstuff."


    In 5 yrs of quilt use you've had to realize a quilt based sleep system's warmth and comfortability is dramatically influenced by the additional components in the sleep system and other aspects exampled by how one sleeps. Yet no mentioning it. This is important - significantly so - yet too often ignored in quilt based sleep system analysis in regards to saving wt, volume, $, complexity, modular compatibility, performance(warmth, sleeping comfort, warmth to wt ratios, etc). A quilt based sleep system is a modular based sleep system! Perceive it as such in arriving at answers to your questions.
    When I read quilt reviewer's statements like "the quilt I am looking at has awesome reviews in that folks say they've been able to take it past 30*" the FIRST thing I want acknowledged and detailed is HOW that is being accomplished, under what set ups, in what typical usage, etc. With quilt based sleep systems, even more so than sleeping bag based sleep systems, the devil is in the details. *It easily leads to faulty and situationally questionable claims when analyzing a quilt based sleep system on the quilt component alone! This is observed being done even by highly evolved and knowledgeable hiking and gear review forums.


    "Any feedback on experience making a similar transition would be apprecaited! Thanks folks."


    LOL. YES! It would be very easy to come to my own stupid light sleep system decisions in a current revamping of my sleep system quiver if I made those decisions based largely or only on saving wt and volume outside of considering the entire sleep system and own needs and typical usage in different temp rating categories. FWIW, I'm currently seeking a sleep system temp rating for temps between 10-20* as probably my most utilized temp category rating in the quiver. I'm comparing a WM 10* Versalite, Katabatic 15* Sawatch, FF 20* UL Swallow, and a 10* ZP 3/4 zip hybrid quilt. Even with gram weenie ways I know the best decision I can come to has to take in factors beyond wt and volume.


    It's analogous IMHO to taking anything out of context of a larger whole which is how in the field these pieces are normally used while making comparisons i.e.; isolating apparel piece performance/wt/etc in layering approaches(who just wears a shirt or rain jacket?), footwear(socks, footbeds/orthotics, gaiters, pants play a role), shelter systems(a shelter can also be a sleep or part of an apparel system), especially shelter systems using trekking poles or in hammock or bivy based shelters or tarp ponchos for example, food wt and bulk, etc. Isolation analysis and comparisons is certainly useful; do it. BUT, don't stop there.

    Im not sure how you think moving to a 30* quilt is a "stupid light decision". This is a thought out idea with a specific goal in mind. I was mostly interested in peoples personal experience with this specific senario, but I do appreciate your effort and thought out response

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    I opened with "A narrowed analysis bordering on making a stupid light decision - a narrowed decision based on saving wt and volume." I did not say your example WAS a stupid light decision. That specific phrasing and sentence being placed as the opening sentence was chosen intentionally so YOU can judge for yourself in your own usage and under your own scenarios whether it is indeed a stupid light decision. The rest of what was written was intended to further that judgment decision making process to be made BY YOU, not me. I clearly stated how it can be a stupid light decision. I gave a current personal example of how I too can fall into the trap of making a stupid light sleep system decision...as one who has in hindsight made a good number of questionable UL decisions.


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    Maybe get a 40 and use the current 20 when the temps are pushing it. Everyone is different and it also depends on your pad too, my former 20 degree quilt wouldn’t keep me warm in high 20s. I personally wouldn’t be able to use a 30 quilt if it was going to be below freezing but you might be able to.

    As Venchka has pointed out, manufacturers use different methods to do their ratings so only real way to know the real comparability is to experience it yourself. It is interesting that the EE difference between 20 and 30 is 4oz whereas the two quilts you are looking at is 8, would try to discern the difference in types of materials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    Im not sure how you think moving to a 30* quilt is a "stupid light decision". This is a thought out idea with a specific goal in mind. I was mostly interested in peoples personal experience with this specific senario, but I do appreciate your effort and thought out response
    Not that yours is, but “stupid light decisions” are indeed likely thought out with a specific goal in mind (lower weight). Time and experience is the judge not the assumptions and intent of the idea. At these levels of performance, it is always difficult to isolate the trade offs since the real world test will likely be in an unforgiving environment.

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    Why not stick with a 20 deg quilt? You could save a good 5 oz by purchasing an EE quilt. Probably higher fill power(.less volume) than your old Golite too. There is a reason that 20 deg quilts are so popular. Versatility in a variety of conditions. Having the extra loft you need on shoulder season trips. As Dogwood suggests, consider the whole system. You could come up with more weight savings in summer with a lighter, minimally insulated pad, less clothing, etc. Stupid light decisions would be cutting your safety margins too close for the sake of weight savings. You could save even more with a narrower cut quilt but risk greater heat loss when turning in your sleep.


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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    Im comparing my Golite 20* quilt (26oz) to the Nunatak 30* Arc UL quilt (17.8oz).

    So yes my math was off by 2oz, my bad!

    Ive never measured the dimensions of of my Golite quilt but I know I just bought a standard size and width when I bought it.
    Well, having owned that same Golite quilt, Im sure youll be at least as warm in the Nunatak30. But that makes your original question seem off the mark. Its not really a question of sacrificing temp rating for weight. Many others have replaced reasonably good gear just to save weight, and 8.2 is a pretty good savings. I personally think it probably not enough quilt. My HG zero was 24oz, and I think I would put my money into a warmer quilt and keep the Golite to use in warmer weather. Or, replace the Golite with a 40 at almost half the weight.


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  17. #17

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    I guess its worth mentioning when I solo hike (the majority of my trips) I use my hammock system with a 20* 3/4 UQ.

    When I have to sleep in a tent (zpacks duplex) I use an Exped UL7 to sleep on.

    I also own on of those costco down quilts that Ive used in the summer time with zero issues.

    I find it hard to make judgements on these quilts when the manufactures have such different specs on the same temp ratings

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    I find it hard to make judgements on these quilts when the manufactures have such different specs on the same temp ratings
    You simply can't make judgements based on specs and temp ratings from different makers. In your case, you can only make a judgment based on your 5 years with the 20 degree you own and compare it with the exact same quilt in a 30 (if nothing has changed in their design in 5 years and accounting for any degradation of your 20 degree bag). Then, you still have to see, based on trying out the 30 degree several times and in varying conditions that mimic your 5 years of use if it will work for you. The You portion is really the determining factor. If you think it might work, try it. If it does, great. If not, sell. Good gear doesn't lose tons of value like say a new car does.

    You're in GA. You're probably fine with a 30 degree from a lot of manufacturers, not all, but a lot. Some makers have a reputation for very conservative ratings for their quilts, others not so much. i.e.. Enlightened Equipment. Basically, you have to try stuff and see and so much is up to you, how you use the quilt in a given temperature, how 'cold' a sleeper you are, how much you eat before going to sleep, if you toss and turn, do your feet get cold. The reason makers allow for a lot of customization is because everyone has different wants and needs. Want overstuff, want an extra insulated footbox, want draft collars, want snaps, want pad straps, want the quilt to go over your head, need a wide quilt?...the list goes on and on.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    You simply can't make judgements based on specs and temp ratings from different makers. In your case, you can only make a judgment based on your 5 years with the 20 degree you own and compare it with the exact same quilt in a 30 (if nothing has changed in their design in 5 years and accounting for any degradation of your 20 degree bag). Then, you still have to see, based on trying out the 30 degree several times and in varying conditions that mimic your 5 years of use if it will work for you. The You portion is really the determining factor. If you think it might work, try it. If it does, great. If not, sell. Good gear doesn't lose tons of value like say a new car does.

    You're in GA. You're probably fine with a 30 degree from a lot of manufacturers, not all, but a lot. Some makers have a reputation for very conservative ratings for their quilts, others not so much. i.e.. Enlightened Equipment. Basically, you have to try stuff and see and so much is up to you, how you use the quilt in a given temperature, how 'cold' a sleeper you are, how much you eat before going to sleep, if you toss and turn, do your feet get cold. The reason makers allow for a lot of customization is because everyone has different wants and needs. Want overstuff, want an extra insulated footbox, want draft collars, want snaps, want pad straps, want the quilt to go over your head, need a wide quilt?...the list goes on and on.


    Yeah I agree with alot of what you said. It really comes down to my decision bc some many variables are in involved. But personal experience can be valuable information

    Unfortunately Golite is no longer in business, but I am very interested in Nunatak's offering.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue indian View Post
    Yeah I agree with alot of what you said. It really comes down to my decision bc some many variables are in involved. But personal experience can be valuable information

    Unfortunately Golite is no longer in business, but I am very interested in Nunatak's offering.
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